12 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Why are the Tigers now in the Grand Final?

Sure it's the strength of Dustin Martin, the class of Trent Cotchin, the sheer nous of Riewoldt  and the stability of Alex Rance. 

Its adding Nankervis, Prestia & Caddy. 

Its adding small dynamic forwards. 

But there are 4 other key factors

1- LUCK ... no injuries all year (really only Nathan Drummond,  35-40 "list player" who did his knee). Amazing. Clean health for 40 others. 

2- FOOTBALL ... football football and football.  The Tigers had 330 possessions (200 kicks, 130 handballs) vs Giants 390 possessions (210 kicks 180 handballs). This was virtually the same in Tigers vs Cats. Other sides like Melbourne overpossess the footy and lose the footy in turnovers  

3- GOALS ... the forwards kick goals. If you are inside 50, run and kick goals. Not a further 3 handballs

and finally

4- G&D... tough determined footballers. No shirkers. Blokes all put their heads over the footy. 

 

Speedy nippy smalls can crack the zones open like an egg. And pressure the defence setups, as long as the smalls actually tackle & bring down the opponents.

Instant changes of direction, steering around the witches hats.

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Watch all hell break lose this week when only about 15,000 of their 75,000+ members get tickets.  (Plus their MCC and AFL members).

The will really go absolutely feral!! 

 

At least the crowd will be more even.  Can't imagine the die hard Ess, Coll, Carl fans barracking for Richmond.  

Hardwick has already started the sob story of being the underdogs looking for the fairytale wave of love the WB had last year from neutrals. 

not to mention the away strip.

Hate to say it but Richmond drew a line in the sand and their leaders/club now stand for something....compared to our soft underbelly. It's hard to see whos going to stand up in the circle and draw the line for the Dee's, pip squeaked voice Jones (who goes missing when it counts) or Viney the kid. Has Lewis been around the club long enough? We lack leadership to go the next step IMO

12 minutes ago, Deeprived Childhood said:

What is your opinion on trading Watts C.B.F.?

I do believe he should be traded. I think it should have been done in 2015 to be honest. 

Initially, I viewed a trade as an act of mercy in that I felt that the way we had handled him had been apalling. However, now I think Jack's lacsadaisical nature (which is who he is and I don't begrudge him that) may be detrimental in us taking the next step. 

For mine, 2016 was a year where Jack showed us what he was capable of: not a Carey-esque power forward who can win games off his own boot but (and this comparison has been done to death) a Jack Gunston type. The type of guy who adds the cherry to the sundae.

But it has thus been 1 year out of 9. That's a LOT of time to give anyone. Especially if we could find someone who is more of producer rather than a finisher. 

Jack is nearly out of trade currency now. This may be anathema for some but if he doesn't want to be the next Josh Fraser, he will want to get cracking. Remember that Fraser was ultimately delisted. He did his job as 1st ruck passably but they went and got a top liner while keeping him listed. When it came to the crunch, the Pies couldn't get a trade for him.

If things don't change for Jack, a similar fate awaits.

8 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Hate to say it but Richmond drew a line in the sand and their leaders/club now stand for something....compared to our soft underbelly. It's hard to see whos going to stand up in the circle and draw the line for the Dee's, pip squeaked voice Jones (who goes missing when it counts) or Viney the kid. Has Lewis been around the club long enough? We lack leadership to go the next step IMO

I think we did start to stand for something up to the Sydney game.

For mine, we were looking like the unsociable Hawks of 2008. We took no shif and gave plenty out.

Then Tommy Bugg king hit Callum Mills...

I reckon that brain fart cowed a lot of our blokes.

Just now, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think we did start to stand for something up to the Sydney game.

For mine, we were looking like the unsociable Hawks of 2008. We took no shif and gave plenty out.

Then Tommy Bugg king hit Callum Mills...

I reckon that brain fart cowed a lot of our blokes.

Good post, there's a lot of truth to that. It was definitely the Syd game where it all started to unfold. Poor starts all year though still makes me wonder why

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

True, which is why it should be a cracking game.

Adelaide are definitely a better ball moving side but if Richmond are as crazed and manic as they have been then it'll even it up for sure.

Flip of the coin game imo.

It's going to be interesting to watch the Adelaide taller defence against the Tiger small forwards. Pressure from up the ground will play it's part but Lever will play a big role. If he gets enough of the ball in the air then the smalls will struggle to have an effect on the game.

Townsend or Caddy seem the only options to go to Lever but don't have the height to really take him out of the game and Richmonds kicking game is not good enough to circumvent him.

If the Tiges smalls can get on top then it's their's for the taking.

As always it will all become obvious at around 5pm on Saturday afternoon.

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Oh I can comprehend. I just can't believe the extent at which you defend Watts.

To the point where you completely misunderstand the commentary from our captain in regards to Watts and what is required from him as a player of nine years.

Jones was asked the inevitable question when on SEN regarding Jack's hiccups this year. He answered it honestly and respectfully. How you can interpret that as "bagging" Watts is genuinely ridiculous.

Your views regarding Watts are so out of whack given he is now a nine year senior player. There comes a point in time at which an individual takes responsibility for their own actions. And Jones wouldn't have been asked the question regarding  Watts' hiccups this year if Jack had taken responsibility and accountability for his preparation as an elite athlete who has been in the system for 9 years. Do you at all understand that?

The problem with you and so many Watts' haters is that your commentary lacks substantive feedback - you bag out so many players indiscriminately

This player has suffered more than most, and I'm relying on the FD to make the call, whatever that may be.....not the likes of you

Continue your sheep bleating....idgaf

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

The problem with you and so many Watts' haters is that your commentary lacks substantive feedback - you bag out so many players indiscriminately

This player has suffered more than most, and I'm relying on the FD to make the call, whatever that may be.....not the likes of you

Continue your sheep bleating....idgaf

Wow!! 

Are you a family member of the Watts Clan

or maybe went to kindy with Jack?

i watched Jack play school footy for BGS long before he was drafted, my Brother and Dad are both from BGS

Jack always has had talent, always. 

but his attitude has never been focused. 

Do you honestly believe he would have thrived yesterday? Because yesterday is what it is all about...

i heard what Jones said on radio, and nothing he said was out of line. 

How many more times does Jack need to be dropped from the side or disciplined in the pre season for not having the right attitude?

15 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Wow!! 

Are you a family member of the Watts Clan

or maybe went to kindy with Jack?

i watched Jack play school footy for BGS long before he was drafted, my Brother and Dad are both from BGS

Jack always has had talent, always. 

but his attitude has never been focused. 

Do you honestly believe he would have thrived yesterday? Because yesterday is what it is all about...

i heard what Jones said on radio, and nothing he said was out of line. 

How many more times does Jack need to be dropped from the side or disciplined in the pre season for not having the right attitude?

Okay, if his attitude sucks, or he needs to lift, like a dozen others, let the FD deal with it

He has been bagged out to the very echo, then bagged out again

I just want the poor bastard to have a bit of respite 

[censored], another JW thread

Btw, Viney will be a better captain than Jones in time

Please god just let Adelaide win. We will literally never hear the end of it if the Tigers go all the way.

Must give credit where it's due though. I had them pegged for mid table with bottom four a real possibility. Hardwick struck me as a reactionary coach. Certainly not an innovator. Not that suffocating the opposition with forward pressure is revolutionary but his disregard for the need of a second tall forward, let alone a third, has reeped clear benefits.

I think an experienced head in Neil Balme has made a big difference, and Leppa returning as an assistant has seen their return to being a genuinely hard team to score against. Keep in mind that Rance credits his career elevation to Leppa. He's now waving his wand over their other defenders.

This along with Cotchin having 25 meaningful possessions rather than 40 sideways chip kicks and Martin being worth three players on his own has meant their big names are making a serious difference in performance and leadership.

One main take away is that if Richmond can do it, why not us?

Edited September 24, 20177 yr by P-man

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Okay, if his attitude sucks, or he needs to lift, like a dozen others, let the FD deal with it

He has been bagged out to the very echo, then bagged out again

I just want the poor bastard to have a bit of respite 

[censored], another JW thread

Btw, Viney will be a better captain than Jones in time

I agree with your last line. 

The rest Jack Watts could have fixed himself. Respite from what? His own attitude towards his profession  

he is more interested in selling expensive board shorts sadly, We all know he has the talent

At Melbourne there are Line in the sand games, but the attitude is only there for a week, then it fades... I have seen it long before Jack was drafted, but i do remember the article in 2010 where Jack was was quoted

"Losing doesn't really bother me too much"

the alarm bells rang in my head that day. 

Will Jack ever play a game like Daniel Rioli did yesterday, when it really counts

is he that motivated?

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I agree with your last line. 

The rest Jack Watts could have fixed himself. Respite from what? His own attitude towards his profession  

he is more interested in selling expensive board shorts sadly, We all know he has the talent

At Melbourne there are Line in the sand games, but the attitude is only there for a week, then it fades... I have seen it long before Jack was drafted, but i do remember the article in 2010 where Jack was was quoted

"Losing doesn't really bother me too much"

the alarm bells rang in my head that day. 

Will Jack ever play a game like Daniel Rioli did yesterday, when it really counts

is he that motivated?

His form was sensational until he tore his hammy - not treated properly by the medicos - came back too soon. Lost all his early momentum

There is no doubt about it, whenever the blame needs to be apportioned, we turn on JW.

Some people have forgotten his efforts in the first part of season (pre injury) playing in a role that did not suit his skills or body type.. He( Gawn & Viney )did not return from their injuries really well, so do not apportion 100% blame on individual players.

Let us look at this positively. If JW had 5 more possessions every game we would be on Ticketek now instead of bleating about what if.

18 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

His form was sensational until he tore his hammy - not treated properly by the medicos - came back too soon. Lost all his early momentum

His form before the injury was acceptable, i wouldn't call it sensational. 

He still tackled with one arm far too many times. 

No player should be doing that

Richmond have more luck this year than many other grand final sides. They are a 4 man side with revolt only missing 2 games. They have had an easy draw. E.ven going into the finals they were placed below Geelong but got the home ground advantage and an easy prelim opponent. It is hard for me to be objective though coz I cen't stand them. I hope Adelaide win by a point. Don't like Adelaide either.

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

His form before the injury was acceptable, i wouldn't call it sensational. 

He still tackled with one arm far too many times. 

No player should be doing that

Better than acceptable...

18 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Better than acceptable...

Your eyes are tainted and have been for a long time. 

Jack has played his entire career in cruise control

It could have been so much better...

it is no suprise that other clubs are showing no interest...

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Your eyes are tainted and have been for a long time. 

Jack has played his entire career in cruise control

It could have been so much better...

it is no suprise that other clubs are showing no interest...

Perhaps - mebbe your eyes have been tainted by the bleating minions?

He was fantastic - pressure acts, goals, score assists, ruck tap outs to advantage...it's all there

Edited September 24, 20177 yr by jumbo returns

Looks like their luck ran out as far as the VFL final was concerned !

24 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Perhaps - mebbe your eyes have been tainted by the bleating minions?

He was fantastic - pressure acts, goals, score assists, ruck tap outs to advantage...it's all there

Bleating minions, that's a good one

but no, i am in fact looking at the big picture, which for the most part has been most underwhelming...

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Bleating minions, that's a good one

Thought you might like that

Anyhoo, I thought he was terrific last year and was heading towards a great year this year, until his injury

28 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Thought you might like that

Anyhoo, I thought he was terrific last year and was heading towards a great year this year, until his injury

He played some good games. But far too inconsistent. 

Good players don't get dropped, Jack still floats in and out too much

6 hours ago, P-man said:

Please god just let Adelaide win. We will literally never hear the end of it if the Tigers go all the way.

Must give credit where it's due though. I had them pegged for mid table with bottom four a real possibility. Hardwick struck me as a reactionary coach. Certainly not an innovator. Not that suffocating the opposition with forward pressure is revolutionary but his disregard for the need of a second tall forward, let alone a third, has reeped clear benefits.

I think an experienced head in Neil Balme has made a big difference, and Leppa returning as an assistant has seen their return to being a genuinely hard team to score against. Keep in mind that Rance credits his career elevation to Leppa. He's now waving his wand over their other defenders.

This along with Cotchin having 25 meaningful possessions rather than 40 sideways chip kicks and Martin being worth three players on his own has meant their big names are making a serious difference in performance and leadership.

One main take away is that if Richmond can do it, why not us?

Mer.. let em win.....then they will drink their own bathwater all of next season and then we can smash them. If they lose by a goal, you will never hear the end of it......I reckon we are on the same path and are not that far behind the Tigers in development terms anyway....the rest of it we wil have to wait and see.

19 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think we did start to stand for something up to the Sydney game.

For mine, we were looking like the unsociable Hawks of 2008. We took no shif and gave plenty out.

Then Tommy Bugg king hit Callum Mills...

I reckon that brain fart cowed a lot of our blokes.

I think our 2017 was Hawthorn's 2004. They won a bunch of games they shouldn't have but seemed to lose to team's at or below them on the ladder. An immaure team that was still transitioning with a "changing of the guard". I'm not convinced we'll be a finals side in 2018 especially with the likes of Watts and Jones at the forefront of what helps define the club. They're basically the Lord and Ritchie Vandenberg of this current Melbourne team. Sure they're good to have around now but you probably don't want them to be best 22 when you're on the verge of playing finals. I've said it a million times before, but we still need to make hard decisions if we truly want Viney, Oliver, Petracca and Co. to lead the new crop.