10 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

You can add Salem to that list. I have said this on a few occasions. I'm sick of hearing each year that we are tired towards the end of the season due to our youth. Sorry not accepting it for the 3rd straight year. They [censored] up the return of our injured players this year big time and it played a strong part in us missing out on a finals place. Our fixture didn't help in the middle but overall it was a good fixture when you look at the start and end so no excuse.

Misson In Action for mine. Time to bring in some fresh ideas and modernise that department. Don't want to hear of bricks concussing our players again this preseason!

I completely forgot about Salem!

10 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

We need a fresh set of eyes in our fitness department I've been saying it since the start of 2016, Mission has had his time way out of his depth our team is nowhere near fit enough hence all of our fade outs all the soft tissue injuries cant cop this any longer time for results noe no more BS.

Often the notion of change if only for change's sake , is pilloried as misguided, unwarranted and all but ignorance.

Are we as successful in this department as might be though. Are our current results whilst not bad , not brilliant ?

We aim to raise the bar in all areas of the club's performance. Could this area be better ?

If it can be better , if we are only comparing our current status to a previous might we not look outwardly and everywhere as to what is now state of the art ? 

Arw we there ?

If not...we should aim to be. That might require fresh faces. It might.

36 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Often the notion of change if only for change's sake , is pilloried as misguided, unwarranted and all but ignorance.

Are we as successful in this department as might be though. Are our current results whilst not bad , not brilliant ?

We aim to raise the bar in all areas of the club's performance. Could this area be better ?

If it can be better , if we are only comparing our current status to a previous might we not look outwardly and everywhere as to what is now state of the art ? 

Arw we there ?

If not...we should aim to be. That might require fresh faces. It might.

Of course it can be better, that's why we're calling for change how many more chances is mission going to get really? When are we going to become ruthless? Every little detail of our club's fitness department needs to be thoughly reviewed the amount of injuries we sustained all round the same time was the reason we faded this year.

This year was Missions 5th year in the Job right? I think he's very comfortable in the environment hes in, what's he hanging his hat on in terms of AFL? Oh leading the bulldogs to 3 prelims in 2008 09 10 that was near a decade ago.

Please to all the do gooders dont bring up He trained olympic athletes sprinters and pole vaulters these are athletes that deal with body contact and repeat efforts.

If im PJ I'm absolutely filthy with the way the season has fizzled out and Richmond in the space of 1 pre season after coming of a 8 win season are in a Grand Final on the back of an injection in youth, clean bill of health and a sustained intensity of game plan and fitness management protocols.

Don't talk to me about ignorance.

21 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Our problems are above the shoulders. 

Dave Misson has trained Olympians

End of discussion

What Olympians Pole Vaulters and Javelin throwers.???

19 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

 

This year was Missions 5th year in the Job right? I think he's very comfortable in the environment hes in, 

i think this goes to the core of it.

21 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

What Olympians Pole Vaulters and Javelin throwers.???

Hilarious

On 23/09/2017 at 10:51 AM, Tony Tea said:

I wonder whether our lapses are less to do with fitness and more to do with opposition changes to which we are slow to respond. Probably a bit of both. Probably also to do with rotations putting wrong players (lesser and less intense players) in the wrong places.

Hopefully we are weeding out the lesser and less intense players. All it takes is one weak link in a full court press and the opposition can stroll through to get "out the back here". This occurred late in the year, but hardly at all early in the year when we were in good nick.

Further to my previous. 

Misson's mission has got to be a long term affair. The continued development of a young list into a resilient, game-conditioned and physicallg strong group will take time.

Naturally, I have no idea about how to condition professional footballers, or even how long it takes, so I really have no idea about whether Misson is doing a good job.

The poor form of our players returning from injury this season was curious.

It hasn't been an issue in the past.

Misson was in the same role in the past.

So it must be a result of something new.

Goodwin is something new.

28 minutes ago, Skuit said:

The poor form of our players returning from injury this season was curious.

It hasn't been an issue in the past.

Misson was in the same role in the past.

So it must be a result of something new.

Goodwin is something new.

Nice observation Skuit. Typically the high performance fitness dudes make recommendations about boxes to tick before being available. You wonder whether Goodwin has been too aggressive with players returning from injury or impacted via some new training / game day routes. What we know for sure is that we would have been better off this year if some did extra fitness work or came back via the 2's.

Not helping Misson and his team is the fact that we have faded badly the last 3 years due to our 'youth'. I'm over hearing that excuse that gets rolled out each year when we cave in. Accepted it the first year and the second but not this year. Misson's job is to get the team through the season and he has failed repeatedly. I don't need to understand science to judge their performance I just need to look at the outcomes and decide if they meet AFL standards

2 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Nice observation Skuit. Typically the high performance fitness dudes make recommendations about boxes to tick before being available. You wonder whether Goodwin has been too aggressive with players returning from injury or impacted via some new training / game day routes. What we know for sure is that we would have been better off this year if some did extra fitness work or came back via the 2's.

Not helping Misson and his team is the fact that we have faded badly the last 3 years due to our 'youth'. I'm over hearing that excuse that gets rolled out each year when we cave in. Accepted it the first year and the second but not this year. Misson's job is to get the team through the season and he has failed repeatedly. I don't need to understand science to judge their performance I just need to look at the outcomes and decide if they meet AFL standards

We had bugger all injuries in 2016 and still failed to play the season out. 

It is mental application, not physical conditioning that lacks inside the MFC

@Sir Why You Little

Im not convinced that there were more than a few returning with injuries not fully rectified. This may be a case of need over nurture but we were told players would not be chanced. They certainly seemed so at times.

This is Missons preserve but probably not his call it seems. 

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We had bugger all injuries in 2016 and still failed to play the season out. 

It is mental application, not physical conditioning that lacks inside the MFC

SWYL, agree that they have issues dealing with expectations and application but its rarely  just one thing that causes things to go wrong in life and in sport.

In some ways you have reaffirmed my point. We had no injuries but still didn't run the season out. They aren't being prepared smartly enough to get through a full year of footy let alone finals on top of that.

16 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

SWYL, agree that they have issues dealing with expectations and application but its rarely  just one thing that causes things to go wrong in life and in sport.

In some ways you have reaffirmed my point. We had no injuries but still didn't run the season out. They aren't being prepared smartly enough to get through a full year of footy let alone finals on top of that.

Preperation in the head mate

Misson came from The Swans and St. Kilda, who at the time were playing in GF's

he then came to Melbourne, and people are questioning whether he can do his job. 

This happens all the time at Melbourne

It is Melbourne who still needs fixing, not Misson. 

If players are recalled too early after injury, who's call is that?

 

20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Preperation in the head mate

Misson came from The Swans and St. Kilda, who at the time were playing in GF's

he then came to Melbourne, and people are questioning whether he can do his job. 

This happens all the time at Melbourne

It is Melbourne who still needs fixing, not Misson. 

If players are recalled too early after injury, who's call is that?

 

I would like to know the answer to that!

Especially in regard to Viney.

3 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would like to know the answer to that!

Especially in regard to Viney.

Maybe the last hurdle is you putting them through their final paces before making their way back into the team BBO!

Stability

Pi55 weak still in contract I suppose club would never pay him out anyway. What happens next year if we're sitting here talking about the same excuses young list, tough draw , youth development , bad luck etc?

Good conversation,  this. However, would the answer be a review of many/all/some of the F/d's positions, or is this done as a matter of course. Hike back to our starting point of fitness compared to where we are, and what stage we are at now in relation to the year of the program. This of course might be an antiquated program as well, which does not help at all.....

35 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would like to know the answer to that!

Especially in regard to Viney.

Exactly. Because regardless of his game against Port, JV was far from ready. 

Is he still wearing a Moon Boot?

41 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would like to know the answer to that!

Especially in regard to Viney.

There would be a growing chorus in respect to this alone. He wasn't the only one whose game was well down upon return. I think Jack (v) pushed a bit too hard, as is his way.

Now look !! 

18 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

Pi55 weak still in contract I suppose club would never pay him out anyway. What happens next year if we're sitting here talking about the same excuses young list, tough draw , youth development , bad luck etc?

That is a Senior Coach & Captain Question

i think Nathan Jones gets off very lightly around here, Look at Cotchin's game yesterday. 

A Real Captain's game that one, when has Jones ever got close to playing like that??

Viney did it twice in 2017, both times injured. Refused to lie down. 

Nathan sadly cannot do it. 

Nice Guy, but not steeled enough in mind

This is far more a problem than Dave Misson. 

You are merely handballing responsibility. 

The players aren't immune to the criticism Jonesy has to step it up next year as does Viney and the rest of the leadership group. One good thing that will come of all this criticism is that it can all turn in 1 pre season shift the tide can turn but everyone has to buy into it.

If this were Real Madrid or Barcelona and I know it's not, Mission would have been gone 10 times over at the end of 2017. 

Does Mission go and look at other sports departments around the world NFL EPL NBA club's to have a look at it's training and fitness structures this is where the club should be placing it's money, this is what's costing us big time.

Or is he placing his faith in all the success he's had in training our highly successful olympic athletes?

 

 

Maybe we should hire the Carlton doctor so we don't lose 2 players a year for 3 games that eventually cost us finals and of course the premiership. /s

I spent 35 years in the field of athletics and have no knowledge of a athlete trained by David Mission.  I believe David is doing the job as he did for the Swans and St Kilda but the football played a decade ago has changed and the current version needs a different fitness set.

I believe that David has run his race and a more modern fitness person should be put in charge, we have that person on staff his name is Daniel Cross.

6 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

The players aren't immune to the criticism Jonesy has to step it up next year as does Viney and the rest of the Leadership Group

 

 

Jones won't step up anymore than he already has done. People have been waiting a decade for it to happen already. 

Viney will, if his foot allows him to