35 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

It is my understanding that that is correct JJC.  He is also No.2 in the AFL for hitting targets coming inside 50.  Aside from intercepts and pressure acts / effective tackles i50, I would argue this would be close to the top of the list on any coaching dept's list of must haves when considering KPI results from match review data.

The question I would love to ask the LG is this ...

1:  Was JW brought before them sometime shortly after his Byron Bay (Party/Poor Prep?) saga pre season and given an ultimatum, then failed to meet their expectations by seasons' end (pr some other time line) and was then shown the door??..OR....

2.   Was he brought before them at the end of the season, and without any prior warning notice from the LG (and the  either rubber stamped or pre-sanctioned by the coach/FD) just told  "sorry mate you failed to prepare as best we feel you could have (pre season and/or post injury) and we don't want you here anymore cause you're training standards & prep are a bad influence on the youngsters here!!??

Maybe GNF can shed some light here?? ....

 

absolutely no and no. And thats not the worst of it.

But ask them

3 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

absolutely no and no. And thats not the worst of it.

@ChewyOnMyBoot whoever you are - do you wish to walk us (the lovers and the haters, and those in between) through it blow by blow - you seem to be teetering on the edge of a lot of knowledge but unwilling to fully divulge...

5 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

I can understand that.

If Roos has come out with that then i know Jacks definitely going.

I can assure you that Jack is highly respected and deeply loved by most if not all of the young guns. Contrary to what the club puts out there. Will be interested to see how they recover. 

That doesn't mean that he's a good influence on their football. Young people are attracted to good blokes that they can relate to in a social sense.

Our best young gun was interviewed on SEN this morning after winning the Bluey. Nobody would guess in a 30 picks who he developed his training habits from this year.

Billy Stretch. Oliver said that he copied everything that Stretch did on the track. Can't imagine any of the young guns copying Watts training habits.

51 minutes ago, ProDee said:

So you're saying players need to be delisted at their exit interview also ?

So Keefe from Collingwood and Mullett/Wagner/Gibson from North, who've been delisted today, must be filthy with their clubs because they weren't told at their exit interviews ?

I'm not sure why he wasn't told at his exit interview, but I do know he was given plenty of notice prior to trade week starting.

Mountain/molehill.

Definitely a molehill but it indicates that either the club pivoted in September and decided to trade him, or that the communications from the FD aren't honest with players (or at least in this instance).

Either isn't ideal, but they should be evaluating decisions like this over the season and if that Bondi trip is the conduit for this move - they knew months in advance they were intending to move him on, and waited to tell him this late, apparently bypassing the opportunity that an exit interview presents.

That's why people are reading a mountain into it.

 

22 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Yeah, I think we'll struggle to find a 150 game player on another list that has only had 1 top 5 B&F finish in 9 years, in a team that hasn't played finals.

mind if I bookmark this and throw it back at you later ??

You're one of those that want to quantify him over the journey and not who he is right now ?  I say that as anyone else at any other club wont share your view. They'll be judging Jack on who and what he is right now and what he can bring to their game.

Since Goodwin ( previously Roos ) has had influence Jack has actually lifted considerably. He just just doesn't fit the mould.

Yes Jack was 5th in 2016 playing the role given. Cracker of a year. 2017..given more roles  than a one man band. Did them all with aplomb 'til injured. Still came in with respectable figures all things considered . Not ONE other player was asked to play as many different positions as JAck.

So by your reckoning any old bag of crisps is decent exchange?

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Goodwin has barely said anything bad about Watts. He never mentioning anything specific about Watts not being professional, having no training standards, being soft at the footy etc. All he said was that he was in a 'rut'. Implying that he is in a form slump and maybe a new environment is a win win for everyone (truer words have never been said!). That's the nicest explanation anyone can offer. i've never understood people saying Goodwin didn't handle it right. 

 

if Jack was running 6th in our b&F after 14 or so rounds, can someone tell me how long has Jack been in the rut for!

41 minutes ago, Danelska said:

@ChewyOnMyBoot whoever you are - do you wish to walk us (the lovers and the haters, and those in between) through it blow by blow - you seem to be teetering on the edge of a lot of knowledge but unwilling to fully divulge...

Yes i do but no i can't. Wouldnt put it on DL. And certainly not before im absolutely certain that the club sends him packing. Ultimately they have the final decision. But i know in Jacks mind he's not staying.

Maybe meet up for a cuppa once its all done. If you're in Melbourne

A lot of players are that good at training that they're still training 3o mins into a game !

5 hours ago, jnrmac said:

This is such a BS line. It wouldn't matter of watts was pick 60 If he doesn't put in the work that is required.

In fact your whole post is BS. Goodwin hates him? Watts a matchwinner? - one game out of 150? Are you serious?

Watts is a good guy therefore we should keep him? 

Thank the Lord you aren't in charge of our list or we wouldn't win a flag for 100 years. But we would have a team of good blokes. Seriously its pathetic.

Jnr with all due respect, we might actually have just as much chance of winning the big one if the good Dr. were in charge, regardless of his views, as nothing that's been tried so far (with some reputable coaches / ideas / methods / support staff / recruits etc thrown in along the way) has seen us win a flag in over half a century.

There are bigger, much more deep seated problems inherent in the culture of this club, way beyond the individual efforts or lack thereof of one Mr J Watts, that has prevented us from becoming a successful AFL club since 64' IMO.

These inherent issues will probably remain, certainly well after Watts has packed up his Gladstone bag and taken up a new locker elsewhere and probably well after the current coaching crew and the current administration have also moved on and a new generation of so called 'hopefuls' take over the reigns, for they (and we as a collective) have so far failed to address them.

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

That doesn't mean that he's a good influence on their football. Young people are attracted to good blokes that they can relate to in a social sense.

Our best young gun was interviewed on SEN this morning after winning the Bluey. Nobody would guess in a 30 picks who he developed his training habits from this year.

Billy Stretch. Oliver said that he copied everything that Stretch did on the track. Can't imagine any of the young guns copying Watts training habits.

How appropriate you brought up Oliver. You know rats mate! 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

- Progress over the past 2 years where he regressed back to old habits of an unprofessional to his training and preparation

- He had a hamstring injury, not like he was coming back from a knee reco give me a spell. So he needed 6 weeks in the reserves to regain fitness before being able to return to the seniors? From a 3 week injury? This is just utter rubbish. And if a full time professional AFL player who has been in the system 9 years and has barely had any prolonged length of time out injured hasn't built up enough of a tank to cope with 4 weeks out with a hammy and needs another month to regain fitness in the reserves then that proves the point being made by the FD in regards to his approach to his training and his profession.

- When has he won a game off his own boot? He kicked the matchwinners against the Pies and last year against the Suns but I wouldn't say he won those games off his own boot. Didn't even poll in Queens Bday game, Petracca got the votes from memory

- Is he taking a stab at McCartney here? A guy who he helped bring in to the club?

- Why does he think Goodwin may have changed his views? Obviously something has happened in the interim, since he left the club

- I would be astonished if Watts wasn't given a heads up that a trade could be an option. Not saying it didn't happen  but we are taking Roos' version of what Watts presumably told him here. Perhaps when "exploring options" was raised in his exit interview he was oblivious to what it meant? 

- Poor if it came from his manager, he should've been notified by the club and the discussion should've been had so he was under no illusions why the club was taking this path.

Whatever your grievances are with Paul Roos' comments, I think everyone on this board can agree that the last point is the most damning. A player of 9 years deserved to be told that up front. Screams of cowardliness by the FD not to tell the guy directly. 

Nice slap by Paul Connors over Goodwins' stupid handling of this.

 

If JW ends in geelong , we can think of all shockers that ended there, Grigic , Blease , Clark

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes and maybe there were strict guidlines in that new contract that Jack signed his name to, that were not upheld

There has to be something that has not been adhered too

I would hope / assume so SW.  I also hope they were made very very clear to JW along with the consequences if they weren't met.

I also hope these very strict (off field?) standards are applied to all of the more senior players (eg, 150ish plus gamers)....and adhered to as strongly going forward if they are seen to be under-performing (both off and on the track)

[Stringer received no indication at his exit meeting that he would be moved on. Instead, a phone call a couple of weeks later from his management made him aware of the proposed move.

"That's a bit frustrating from our point of view, and I'm experiencing it with another trade..."]

I wonder who Paul Conners is referring to here...

5 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Nice slap by Paul Connors over Goodwins' stupid handling of this.

 

pointy thingy somewhere ....cheers

7 hours ago, A F said:

I don't want many old Demons near that fish head. None of them had success...

Some had success at other clubs though A F.  Would be more than happy for those who tasted it strongly and most recently, like Todd, to return (provided they fitted the job requirements and skill sets etc and weren't wet behind the ears and learning on the job ie, making their mistakes on us).  

6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

He is almost a carbon copy of Sylvia. Do you want a team of people that can't be relied upon and do not commit to being professional? I don't. I want 22 players every week that will try their guts out to win this club a flag. Players that will do everything in their power to improve and strive for greatness.

Talent on its own is overrated.

Roos implored the players to choose to be great. Watts got dropped from the pre-season games. Says it all really.

 

I don't agree that he was a carbon copy of Sylvia in terms of the way he plays Jnr.  Maybe you mean intensity / effort.  If so I can see similarities.  Outside of that they are miles apart in most regards in how they play the game IMO.

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would hope / assume so SW.  I also hope they were made very very clear to JW along with the consequences if they weren't met.

I also hope these very strict (off field?) standards are applied to all of the more senior players (eg, 150ish plus gamers)....and adhered to as strongly going forward if they are seen to be under-performing (both off and on the track)

you know they arent ...don't you......

Often in groups...some throw darts....some ARE the dartboard.

Anyone who wold suppose that a sporting club ( totally bereft of inflated egos...lol ) would be a perfectly normal workplace has to be kidding themselves.

But then ...even a perfectly normal workplace has its foibles. Footy clubs just pump them to more exalted levels.

It's the nature of the beast....quite appropriate for a Demon  environement

 

39 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

I can understand that.

If Roos has come out with that then i know Jacks definitely going.

I can assure you that Jack is highly respected and deeply loved by most if not all of the young guns. Contrary to what the club puts out there. Will be interested to see how they recover. 

Have I missed something? When was this ever about Jack's popularity?

I guess this must be the first time every a popular player has ever left a club anywhere ever. 

Someone appoint an administrator

1 hour ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

You will be surprised how little clear communication there was with Jack throughout the year. Can assure you Watts was blindsided. Very poor.

Different arena, but my most troublesome handful of direct reports over the last ten years were the ones who, despite clearly getting direct messages, claim they never got said messages or feedback.

I have no insight into what has gone down with Watts, but it's not impossible for someone to genuinely believe they haven't had feedback, and someone else genuinely feel they've given feedback multiple times.

In an environment where Jetta, who had a wife suffering mental illness, was told to pull his finger out in pre-season by his own admission. And where Oliver was told home truths about his preparation and needing to lose weight, that they would've tip toed around Watts? I don't buy it.

13 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

How appropriate you brought up Oliver. You know rats mate! 

I assume that's a hidden slur on Oliver?

If you are privy to such sensitive info about the goings on at the club, you are either trying to bignote yourself, or you have an axe to grind with the club.

Either way, I take what you have to say with a grain of salt, because all you are doing is mudraking.

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They're professionals, that's like saying in 1982 "what would Sheedy care about Essendon, he's an old Tiger from way back"

Why should Peter Jackson get involved in list management decisions? Stop the "scattergun" of blame and look at the root cause, the common denominator.

Not list management per se Dr. I think you mis understood my point.  The message that's being allowed out and how it (and we) are conveyed in the press (especially with regard to long term loyal players or any for that matter) vs that which is carried out within the four walls.  In that I will happily disagree with you (if you disagree) that PJ has a huge role to play here where the message and/or its method of delivery and nature are being conveyed in a way that could hurt the club or its culture (the one the Club, including PJ are trying to build...from a place of recent historical horribilus).

15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

pointy thingy somewhere ....cheers

The  rage

18 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would hope / assume so SW.  I also hope they were made very very clear to JW along with the consequences if they weren't met.

I also hope these very strict (off field?) standards are applied to all of the more senior players (eg, 150ish plus gamers)....and adhered to as strongly going forward if they are seen to be under-performing (both off and on the track)

Absolutely. But i will bet my left ball that Goodwin didn’t just decide to get rid of JW. This has must have been brewing for a long time