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Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

stevethemanjordan
stevethemanjordan
in Melbourne Demons

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Anyone think we can realistically get both Lever and Gaff this trade period?

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    7 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

    Trengove will unfortunately be delisted and I cant see him returning to AFL; hence his trade value is effectviely voided in your scenario.

    Plus Adelaide would want a pick (2nd or 3rd rounder) in addition to losing Lever for Gibbs (he is 29 next year) who may only have a couple more years in him..

     

     

    I think Trenners can still play AFL, but has been nudged out of Melbourne by other mids and half-backs. Plus he has leadership written all over him, going by what we already know, and Justin Plapp's comments about his games in the VFL this year. I actually don't want to see him go, but he doesn't seem to be a "required player" at Melbourne anymore, and I really do think Carlton may have a spot for him. It's not just about the player, it's also about what each club needs and wants and their stage of development.

    BTW, I think we have done the right thing by him, giving him every opportunity to get back into footy, and now we can do the right thing again, by trying to find another AFL club for him.

    Your second paragraph looks like a copy and paste of my last one, so no reply required there.

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    Actually Jack Watts would probably suit Adelaide expansive, hard running open forward line!  If I was them getting Watts, Gibbs and a draft pick into the team for the expense of lever (plus change) may be quite appealing.  Especially if they have a young KPB developing (as rumoured) or a tall forward who could go back.  If I was them I would be sounding out Port's Trengove or Carlton's Jones as cheap insurance.  They could actually  could do very well out of this trade period.

    and the Lever article is just PR spin to position themselves (Adelaide) into a strong starting negotiating position - Unlike Gibbs last year,  Lever is uncontracted  and can force (well at least bend) the Crows hand.

     

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    24 minutes ago, Ungarie boy said:

    Actually Jack Watts would probably suit Adelaide expansive, hard running open forward line!  

     

    Why would Adelaide want Watts when they just re-signed Mitch McGovern? Plus they also have Tom Lynch as a 3rd tall.

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    I think they tried a couple of years ago to trade Watts, sorry to say there was no interest at all, so i don't think he would be involved in the Lever deal.

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    5 minutes ago, deebug said:

    I think they tried a couple of years ago to trade Watts, sorry to say there was no interest at all, so i don't think he would be involved in the Lever deal.

    He has little to no trade value.

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    Just now, Petraccattack said:

    He has little to no trade value.

    From what they were saying yer not even a packet of timtams:(

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    Chinese whispers happening here.

    I was saying Carlton (not Adelaide) gets Watts and Trengove for a player that does not want to be there (Gibbs).

    Adelaide gets Gibbs (who they pitched for last year) and our second draft pick.

    We get Lever.

    Maybe Carlton need a bit more - next year's second round draft pick, perhaps.

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    2 minutes ago, JackDeMan said:

    Chinese whispers happening here.

    I was saying Carlton (not Adelaide) gets Watts and Trengove for a player that does not want to be there (Gibbs).

    Adelaide gets Gibbs (who they pitched for last year) and our second draft pick.

    We get Lever.

    Maybe Carlton need a bit more - next year's second round draft pick, perhaps.

    Can you please explain to me why Watts would want to leave a team that (please - insert deity) should make finals for one that is miles off. A penchant for playing for teams near the bottom of the ladder? A love of navy blue?

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    22 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

    He has little to no trade value.

    Rubbish. If JW wanted to leave the dees he would have considerable trade value. 

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    1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

    Anyone think we can realistically get both Lever and Gaff this trade period?

    We don't have a proven history of being able to get the 'big trades' done.  Getting what would be two massive trades done in one trade period would be unprecedented in modern MFC history.  

    One of these is possible and, in Lever's case, looks almost likely.

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    1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

    Anyone think we can realistically get both Lever and Gaff this trade period?

    While I think we could, if both chose us, there is a big difference between someone saying Gaff is 'gettable', and him asking for a trade. Not sure both trades will happen 

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    14 minutes ago, binman said:

    Can you please explain to me why Watts would want to leave a team that (please - insert deity) should make finals for one that is miles off. A penchant for playing for teams near the bottom of the ladder? A love of navy blue?

    Not sure what "please - insert deity" means, but it sounds to me like you are being quite disrespectful of another Demon supporter's point of view. I am fully aware that I don't have any divine authority on these matters - just putting up my point of view,. If you don't agree, I would expect a more mature response.

    Unfortunately for Jack, I don't think the decision it is now up to him. He cooked his own goose by not working hard enough in the pre-season. What future would he have at a club that has decided it no longer wants him?

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    2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

    I like your points measurement and am very happy to go with that.

    http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf

    I make 10 + 27 = 1395 + 703 = 2098.  It only needs to be more than that and I win :)

    But it will get complicated if future picks and players get involved - we may need an impartial judge.

    Let's hope we have to decide - because we have Lever!

    Kid doesn't want to be there he is un-contracted and wants to come home. Adelaide have a strict payment structure ( which has served them well ) they cant match what other clubs are prepared to pay. I think we will get a discount. 

    I think its going to take a third part ie Freo or Gold Coast - so an arbiter or impartial judge would be needed. You can't look at one trade in isolation. ie my example I gave elsewhere on the site

    Adelaide - 5 

    Freo - 10, 27, (Steak Knives) Kent

    MFC - 40, Lever, (Steak knives) Balic

     

     

     

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    12 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

    Kid doesn't want to be there he is un-contracted and wants to come home. Adelaide have a strict payment structure ( which has served them well ) they cant match what other clubs are prepared to pay. I think we will get a discount. 

    I think its going to take a third part ie Freo or Gold Coast - so an arbiter or impartial judge would be needed. You can't look at one trade in isolation. ie my example I gave elsewhere on the site

    Adelaide - 5 

    Freo - 10, 27, (Steak Knives) Kent

    MFC - 40, Lever, (Steak knives) Balic

     

     

     

    Yep, I feel confident that it would take more than 10 + 27 for Lever + 40 (assuming Kent = Balic).

    The closest we might get to your 10 + 27 is 10 + 2018 1st for Lever + 35.  Depending on how our 2018 1st is valued (12, 13?) they're about equal in points, but I think Adelaide would prefer the latter.

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    2 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

    I think Trenners can still play AFL, but has been nudged out of Melbourne by other mids and half-backs. Plus he has leadership written all over him, going by what we already know, and Justin Plapp's comments about his games in the VFL this year. I actually don't want to see him go, but he doesn't seem to be a "required player" at Melbourne anymore, and I really do think Carlton may have a spot for him. It's not just about the player, it's also about what each club needs and wants and their stage of development.

    BTW, I think we have done the right thing by him, giving him every opportunity to get back into footy, and now we can do the right thing again, by trying to find another AFL club for him.

    Your second paragraph looks like a copy and paste of my last one, so no reply required there.

    Trengove is UFA.  No-one needs to trade to get him.

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    22 minutes ago, JackDeMan said:

    Not sure what "please - insert deity" means, but it sounds to me like you are being quite disrespectful of another Demon supporter's point of view. I am fully aware that I don't have any divine authority on these matters - just putting up my point of view,. If you don't agree, I would expect a more mature response.

    Unfortunately for Jack, I don't think the decision it is now up to him. He cooked his own goose by not working hard enough in the pre-season. What future would he have at a club that has decided it no longer wants him?

    Wasn't meaning to be rude JDM. Apologies if it that is how i came across. Insert deity was not a shot at you. I meant that watts is unlikely to leave a team that (please god) should make finals. As in please god let us make finals.

    It is up to jack. He has a contract. And quite a big one at that. If the club don't want him they could threaten him he will play VFL all season but really that would be a hollow threat or at the least one that Watts could call them on.

    Lets say he did call them on it. Do the club dig in and play a player with his class, not to mention the skill we so badly lack -elite kicking skills - in the magoos. And pay him 700k? i don't think so. Though you could argue the Pies have with mayne. but where has that got them? 

    Edited by binman

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    2 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

    Yep, I feel confident that it would take more than 10 + 27 for Lever + 40 (assuming Kent = Balic).

    The closest we might get to your 10 + 27 is 10 + 2018 1st for Lever + 35.  Depending on how our 2018 1st is valued (12, 13?) they're about equal in points, but I think Adelaide would prefer the latter.

    Now wait a second the bet is 10 & 27 or 2100 draft points. In the example I gave I would easily win. 

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    Just now, DaveyDee said:

    Now wait a second the bet is 10 & 27 or 2100 draft points. In the example I gave I would easily win. 

    I know.  You've gone from 10 + 27 to 10 + 27 - 40.  You'd win if that happened, but I feel confident that won't happen.

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    • Like 1
    3 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

    The closest we might get to your 10 + 27 is 10 + 2018 1st for Lever + 35.  Depending on how our 2018 1st is valued (12, 13?) they're about equal in points, but I think Adelaide would prefer the latter.

    If he was contracted and Adelaide had a more flexible pay structure - you might be right.

    But sorry to say - they dont.  

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    If we trade 2 first rounders and pay Lever 800k the club has lost the plot and is in no way a destination club as they will try to claim.

    By my calculations that would make him our highest paid player, and one that has achieved little at AFL level.

    It would set a shocking precedent and cause other players to hold out like Martin. I would guess Prestria being offered similar money to him had a major role in delaying contracts throughout the season and then signing for 500k a season above his original offer.

    Oliver, Petracca and Oliver are all better prospects and other clubs will be waiting to pounce if this occurs.

    He would want to start being a key position player if this happens. 

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    • Like 3
    10 minutes ago, binman said:

    Wasn't meaning to be rude JDM. Apologies if it that is how i came across. Insert deity was not a shot at you. I meant that watts is unlikely to leave a team that (please god) should make finals. As in please god let us make finals.

    No worries - thank for your explanation, and it looks like I did take it the wrong way.

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    Im just impressed with all respect posters are showing to each other. Things that could have degenerated haven't.

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    • Like 1
     
    13 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

    If we trade 2 first rounders and pay Lever 800k the club has lost the plot and is in no way a destination club as they will try to claim.

    By my calculations that would make him our highest paid player, and one that has achieved little at AFL level.

    It would set a shocking precedent and cause other players to hold out like Martin. I would guess Prestria being offered similar money to him had a major role in delaying contracts throughout the season and then signing for 500k a season above his original offer.

    Totally agree with this. There is a big difference between making list changes that actually improve your list, and making changes so it looks like you are actually doing something.

    I'm not sold on Lever as being the type of player we desperately need, and certainly not if we get sucked into a ridiculous bidding war / pissing contest with Adelaide and / or other clubs.

    I'm more than happy to hit the draft hard over the next few years and ensure that we keep our list together in the meantime. 

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    if you equate it to lever being paid $670k or so across 5 years - which is what $850k under the new cba equates to, under the old cba - does that make those who are worried about his price feel any better?

    i'm of the opinion that if we can get it done, we get it done

    crows' supporting mates think it'll happen, just a matter for what - they think he's absolutely worth two first rounders, the only way i can see that happening is if something comes back the other way

    we were spitballing and came up with the following:

    lever plus rory atkins FOR melbourne pick 10, 2017 and melbourne's 2018 first rounder

    OR

    lever plus brisbane's 2nd round pick 2017 (pick 18-20, traded to the crows for charlie cameron) FOR melbourne pick 10, 2017 and melbourne's 2018 first rounder

    the one i would love to take off their hands is hugh greenwood, but crows fans are adamant he ain't leaving

    Edited by DemonAndrew

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