10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Long term future?  Sure, I agree with that.  But he is still part of our shorter future over the next 2-3 years.  Well, I think he is anyway.

Yep, that was the original discussion point. It's got a bit lost along the way with the usual 'Land squabbles. We differ on the length though, I think he's likely to be around next year, but can't see him lasting any longer than that. I would expect next year he'd play 5-8 games as Hulett and Weed make more of a claim, and we may even have another option as a 23-27 year old taking his role. He's done his job in a reasonably solid way this year.

 

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

Like doping, I am all for lifetime bans!

Funny thing about social media. We meet idiots or folks we disagree with every day but that does not mean that we tell the person or others what we think of them. Indeed in my experience, when we do, it reflects on us and we regret it. 

I don't know why we can't have an opinion without voicing it. 

Very profound Mr hemingway...

...also made me laugh!

Edited August 23, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

54 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

 

I'm not sure how many more times it needs to be explained...

I'm not saying Pedo isn't worth keeping next year, and I'm definitely not saying we don't need mature bodies around while the kids develop, but any player 30 or over is not going to be part of our "future". I'm not talking about their current role or worth, I'm talking about the future, as that was the point originally discussed.

 

Yes we know what you are saying. You have repeated it about 10 times

Pedo is part of the future for the next few years. He does a job. Some of that is protecting the kids whilst they learn

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Sadly it is the world we now live in Ernest.

There are lots of upsides to social media but there are an equal number of down sides.

I try to ignore the downs but I am not always successful.

I agree,  but group think rules, if you stand against group think with an individual opinion you are derided isn't that right DD

On Pedo good honest soldier who gives his best every time he plays, I would give him another year as cover, as they have done with Spencer, whether that happens who knows

Group think at work in different media

RODRIGUEZ a not very good musician who disappeared in the 70s coz he wasn't very good

A film is released about him and he becomes a trendy person to see, he is still not very good but older

Bit like Pure Blonde beer, I had a cat that produced better

I want to see Michie get another year as well

Back on the thread - I hope that we try and finish AFL season off on a high down at Geelong.

The Cats look like they will almost be back to full strength with Bartel, Caddy and Menzel possibly all back.

Hopefully we don't just sell out to development completely like last week because I doubt we will get away with it as the Cats want a top-four spot.

Being a day game we should have the advantage of pace and hopefully it won't be majorly wet so that our possession-game goes astray all the time like last week.

To me there's only one obvious out - Weideman. It was great to speed up his development by rushing him in for two games, but now he can concentrate on taking his game to another level for the VFL finals and build for next season. I am not sure if Pedo is the only answer to take on Stanley when Smith and Gawn rest, although we again saw the dangers of playing Watts as the back-up ruck against two genuine ruckmen last week and I've said for a few weeks that it is a dangerous option - although it worked really well the first few weeks because it got him into the game more. Watts can still go on the ball for a few minutes to achieve this without being a ruckman.

While giving Pedo this game would be nice, because it gives him another chance to boost his chance of getting another year, I'd rather see Spencer get a reward for a long season of playing VFL and he did do well down there last year.

Obviously Matt Jones will be considered as a replacement for Stretch - I've commented on this before. One is 19, the other is 28 and at this stage there's very little between them - so I know which way I'd be going, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did the switch.

It would also be nice to see Grimes and Trengove get a fair well game - but I suspect that won't happen. Jeffy will come in for Neal-Bullen and if Jeffy is not fit, then Salem comes into the equation up forward. Salem also is a potential in down back to replace Michie, although I actually thought Viv was OK on Sunday.

Given the size of the Cats, and the fact that he played a huge game in the VFL, Col Garland should also be considered and he also can do kick-in duties which have now become so Vince-centric that he has to rush all the way back from the wing at times to the goal square and give the opposition as long as they'd like to set up their zone.

Personally I'd send Bernie on to the ball at stoppages and have him man Danger like he did in Adelaide because he makes good body contact with him and then have Hunt pick him up around the ground. If that means sending Nat Jones back, then so be it. Jonesy is smart and is a thumping kick and would be perfect for a Bartel match-up role before moving on to the ball in the second half if needed. Anyone who saw last year's game, knows that Viney has to go to Selwood. It's harder for Selwood to duck into a short guy and there's always a chance he will hurt himself against a ferocious tackler like Jack.

Out: Weideman, Neal-Bullen, Michie

In: Spencer, Garlett (Salem), Garland

B: Jetta (Motlop) T-Mac (Hawkins) Garland (Kersten) 

HB: Hunt (Menzel/Danger) O.Mac (Stanley) N.Jones (Bartel)

C: Stretch Viney Bugg

HF: Petracca Hoges Kent

F: Garlett (Salem) Spencer Watts

Ru: Gawn Vince Tyson

Int: Frost, Oliver, VB, Brayshaw   

Love to see Jack Trengrove get a run. He is consistently amongst the best at Casey.

Last weekend> 29 disposals, 15 kicks, 14 handballs, 5 marks, 9 tackles, 2 hit-outs!

7 hours ago, stuie said:

Yep, that was the original discussion point. It's got a bit lost along the way with the usual 'Land squabbles. We differ on the length though, I think he's likely to be around next year, but can't see him lasting any longer than that. I would expect next year he'd play 5-8 games as Hulett and Weed make more of a claim, and we may even have another option as a 23-27 year old taking his role. He's done his job in a reasonably solid way this year.

 

I hope that one of the Weed or Hulett can step up next year, but if last week showed us anything, it's that Weideman is not ready for senior footy.  That means, in the short term, Pedersen has a future with the club.

I always come back to the saying that we have players on our list who will plant the seed for a tree whose shade they will never enjoy - guys like Bernie Vince and Cam Pedersen are those types.  When we are pushing for a flag, they probably won't be around, but their experience both on and off the field will have been invaluable to the younger players as they come through.  I'm certainly not trying to make Pedersen into some sort of superstar - he isn't.  But, I still think he deserves to play this week and get another short term contract (2 years) as good insurance for the side.  There are no guarantees that Weed or Hulett will be ready to take the next step this year, and having Pedersen as solid insurance for our shorter term future is vitally important.

We are well past the years of playing the kids for the sake of it.  We should be playing our best side each and every week, regardless of where we are at in the season.

Good post Wisey 

IN: Garlett, Kennedy, Salem

OUT: Kent (inj, put in cotton wool), Michie, Neal-Bullen (let them both prepare for Casey finals)

Nearly said Weideman out also, but may as well play him for the final week.  Let he & Hogan play together as much as possible.

17 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I hope that one of the Weed or Hulett can step up next year, but if last week showed us anything, it's that Weideman is not ready for senior footy.  That means, in the short term, Pedersen has a future with the club.

I always come back to the saying that we have players on our list who will plant the seed for a tree whose shade they will never enjoy - guys like Bernie Vince and Cam Pedersen are those types.  When we are pushing for a flag, they probably won't be around, but their experience both on and off the field will have been invaluable to the younger players as they come through.  I'm certainly not trying to make Pedersen into some sort of superstar - he isn't.  But, I still think he deserves to play this week and get another short term contract (2 years) as good insurance for the side.  There are no guarantees that Weed or Hulett will be ready to take the next step this year, and having Pedersen as solid insurance for our shorter term future is vitally important.

We are well past the years of playing the kids for the sake of it.  We should be playing our best side each and every week, regardless of where we are at in the season.

I agree with what you're saying, I just think maybe we've taken the context differently. To me, if Pedo is the "future" of the club then we're going nowhere.

 

On 8/23/2016 at 1:48 PM, Satyriconhome said:

I agree,  but group think rules, if you stand against group think with an individual opinion you are derided isn't that right DD

On Pedo good honest soldier who gives his best every time he plays, I would give him another year as cover, as they have done with Spencer, whether that happens who knows

Group think at work in different media

RODRIGUEZ a not very good musician who disappeared in the 70s coz he wasn't very good

A film is released about him and he becomes a trendy person to see, he is still not very good but older

Bit like Pure Blonde beer, I had a cat that produced better

I want to see Michie get another year as well

Completely off-topic, but I think you missed the point of the film was the compelling story of how he didn't make a dollar in his hometown and worked in construction for a low wage, but his music was making a motza for some blokes selling bootlegs of his album in South Africa for years, unbeknownst to Rodriguez himself.
He may not have been the best, but his music was good enough to form a cult following to the point where urban legends formed about his life and death.

Anyone know the eligibility requirements for finals at Casey? Given Roos said it was important that Casey does well, and as far as I know we don't really have anyone booked in for surgery (maybe Bernie), I'd hate to see a younger player miss out on VFL finals just because they played 1 extra game in the 1s. I think playing finals will be good for the overall team, not just those involved and Casey will go further in finals if we have more players available. 

Guess what I'm saying is while we seemed to have had one eye on the future with some selections lately, I'd hope we have an eye on our eligible guys playing longer this season in the VFL finals. 

18 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

if last week showed us anything, it's that Weideman is not ready for senior footy.

Did it? It was his second game and the delivery into the forward 50 was lower quality than in under 10s. I would judge him more on a game where he is given ample opportunity to have the ball delivered in any kind of usefull way. If the ball is coming in clean and he isnt having an influence then i would agree he isnt ready.

2 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Did it? It was his second game and the delivery into the forward 50 was lower quality than in under 10s. I would judge him more on a game where he is given ample opportunity to have the ball delivered in any kind of usefull way. If the ball is coming in clean and he isnt having an influence then i would agree he isnt ready.

Yes, it did.

He had no impact on the game.  Hogan, who was receiving the same delivery into the forward line, still found a way to take 14 marks and run out the game without any trouble.  Weed can't do that yet, hence why I don't believe he is ready... yet.  I have plenty of faith that his time will come.

50 minutes ago, stuie said:

I agree with what you're saying, I just think maybe we've taken the context differently. To me, if Pedo is the "future" of the club then we're going nowhere.

 

I agree with the last part Stuie, but that is where I would call that the 'long term future'.  In the short term, he has a future and a role to play.  Hopefully when his time is up we have the replacements well an truly ready to go!

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree with the last part Stuie, but that is where I would call that the 'long term future'.  In the short term, he has a future and a role to play.  Hopefully when his time is up we have the replacements well an truly ready to go!

Yep, I see him being around next year, and really a bit surprised we haven't re-signed him yet given a fair few people have said Dawes' calves looked shot at Casey. Would have thought him being injury free would have been the only thing that would make it a choice between the two.

 

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Yes, it did.

He had no impact on the game.  Hogan, who was receiving the same delivery into the forward line, still found a way to take 14 marks and run out the game without any trouble.  Weed can't do that yet, hence why I don't believe he is ready... yet.  I have plenty of faith that his time will come.

 

He is only a kid, he cant be expected to play well when the team plays poorly. Despite all the complaints (including form myself) i think sometimes we forget how freakish it is what Hogan is doing, at his experiance level to have that kind of impact in a poor side is pretty incredible. What i want to see from Weid is him play well in good games. He is young and a passenger, in 3/4 years time he needs to be hogan-like in his influence on a poor game, not now. If he is playing poorly when the rest of the team plays well then questions get asked. Either way I dont see any point in dropping weid this week, just give him another run with Hogan hopefully with a better performance from those around him. 

27 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

He is only a kid, he cant be expected to play well when the team plays poorly. Despite all the complaints (including form myself) i think sometimes we forget how freakish it is what Hogan is doing, at his experiance level to have that kind of impact in a poor side is pretty incredible. What i want to see from Weid is him play well in good games. He is young and a passenger, in 3/4 years time he needs to be hogan-like in his influence on a poor game, not now. If he is playing poorly when the rest of the team plays well then questions get asked. Either way I dont see any point in dropping weid this week, just give him another run with Hogan hopefully with a better performance from those around him. 

I know that, mate.  I'm not trying to knock him at all.  Far from it.  But it's fact - he isn't ready.  Hogan was, but Hogan is a different beast to Weideman.  Now that we are climbing up the ladder we need to play our strongest side, and at this point in time, Pedersen is ahead and should be playing as a result.

I'll re-iterate that I still see a big future ahead for Sam and I look forward to the day when he can play consistently good footy alongside Hogan and Watts in our forward line.

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I know that, mate.  I'm not trying to knock him at all.  Far from it.  But it's fact - he isn't ready.  Hogan was, but Hogan is a different beast to Weideman.  Now that we are climbing up the ladder we need to play our strongest side, and at this point in time, Pedersen is ahead and should be playing as a result.

I'll re-iterate that I still see a big future ahead for Sam and I look forward to the day when he can play consistently good footy alongside Hogan and Watts in our forward line.

Althouuuuuuuugh.... Weed had the same amount of marks and goals against Carlton (in a game where we were terrible, especially delivering the ball inside 50) as Pedo did the previous week in a big win over Port.

 

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Yes, it did.

He had no impact on the game.  Hogan, who was receiving the same delivery into the forward line, still found a way to take 14 marks and run out the game without any trouble.  Weed can't do that yet, hence why I don't believe he is ready... yet.  I have plenty of faith that his time will come.

 

Count how many were in the forward line - I'd say 5 at most. Happy to be corrected as I haven't watched the game again, but my general impression was Hogan spent a hell of a lot of time up on the wings.

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Completely off-topic, but I think you missed the point of the film was the compelling story of how he didn't make a dollar in his hometown and worked in construction for a low wage, but his music was making a motza for some blokes selling bootlegs of his album in South Africa for years, unbeknownst to Rodriguez himself.
He may not have been the best, but his music was good enough to form a cult following to the point where urban legends formed about his life and death.

Agreed but it still doesn't change the fact he is not very good, and people are being group thought into seeing him

Based on the Casey player review, the only ones ready for a call-up would be Grimes, Trengove and JKH, perhaps Salem (who was ill during the week it seems), and even more perhaps, Wagner.

Pedersen was criticised for not being able to finish off his work and be damaging on the scoreboard (again), Matt Jones dropped off in the second half, and Kennedy was off the pace (been ill apparently).

Dawes didn't play, not sure why. I suspect his body is just about shot.

Weeds out will get more chances in 2017,ANB out . Possibly Huelett in and Salem. Pedo might get a recall.

Just drove past training and Kent is running laps. Might be an out?

IN : Salem, Grimes, Trengove, Dawes, JKH

OUT: AVB, Bugg, Kent, don't care, don't care

 

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