The OX slams 'crap' Demons.

[jumbo returns 6,737]

51 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Their  clubs were never as hopeless as just about every club  in the comp hasn't been for decades and they have had nothing to complain about in the past decade. Dermie did give Hawthorn several sprays  when they had a few bad seasons in the early 2000's I recall.

They had some pretty bad years....but you're right, we've had a decade of trauma.

Most were supportive of their old club.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Anyone that listens to SEN and the Ox should call in and suggest that chook, maybe he has never heard of us?

 

[old dee 23,772]

20 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Well I must be one of those nuffers Vo Po because it seems to me 50 + years is a [censored] long journey and inept efforts like last Sunday indicate there is no end in sight.

50 years or half a century is a very long time Bbo.

I agree mate the only up side I can suggest is that we should be used to efforts like last Sunday after all this time.

Sadly it still sticks in my craw. But I wonder for how much longer.

[3Dee 1,153]

Whilst on the subject of the Ox, he would have to be one of the most unbiased gameday commentators going around, he is the yin to Mark Ricciutto's yang.

 

[Earl Hood 6,082]

50 minutes ago, TGR said:

Ox and many supporters here don't get it and a quick to blame convenient issues such as "psychobabble of Etihad".

Etihad highlights our lack of speed.  Our onballers are really one-paced.  Petracca and Brayshaw aren't quick either.  Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem etc... etc...  I said it in a post earlier this year.  We can't defend a quick spreading team, and are better suited to playing the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, North Melbourne, Freo (circa 2016), Geelong, Hawthorn rather than super-quick teams.

Bulldogs beat us there by 100 wasn't it, a year ago.  St.Kilda are inconsistent, but our supporter-base haven't given them the respect they deserve.  They are young, provide ferocity at the contest, and are quick.

Matthew Lloyd said the same thing about North's mids last night on FC.  One-paced and lack line-breakers.  Leigh Matthews has said it about us time and time again, but because it is a negative, demon supporters block their ears and mention "Bruns".

 

 

 

Roos and Co have done well; but they have gone over-board on one-paced inside types.

 

Penny finally dropped?  Maybe.

TGR I agree the lack of leg speed on Sunday compared to the Saints was so obvious and I worry that our game plan, such as it was, doesn't suit our playing stocks. Too much handball and to players not in the clear. The one or two times we went coast to coast for a score was all by foot. The Saints did it time and time again and it was mostly by foot. They spread well but often this was not based on speed, if they got possession in their backline they often had two free players already wide on the opposite boundary waiting for the switch. It looked like a set play to me and we never woke up to it but worse we don't have the equivalent that I can see. If we switch play the receiver will usually find he has no one free and will kick to a contest up the line or kick in board which is a high risk, medium reward tactic for us anyway.   

The Saints, Blues and Dogs all developed coherent, free flowing game plans inside 6 months with their new coaches. Their ability to execute varies but you can see where they are headed. We have been at this for 3 years and still it seems players don't automatically know where to go; we don't have any set plays for kick outs, if TMac intercepts at half back and decides to switch play our guys don't immediately take off to provide the next target in the chain, they will mostly be on the other side watching.

Oh can we leave someone forward at all times? There were a number of times we got a turnover in our back half but then had no where to go as no one was forward of center. 

The discussion last week on why Hawthorn is 18th on the contested possession differential was interesting. Scott Lucas put forward the theory that the Dorks are happy to have less people at the contest and have more loose on the outside and maintain people both back and forward no matter where the contested ball is. This configuration allows them to score easily when they do get a turnover.    

 

 

[Undeeterred 3,118]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

But why should they avoid pressure? They deserve it after Sunday.

I just don't think that excessive pressure creates any positives in a young team, whether deserved or not.

[Sir Why You Little 36,957]

1 hour ago, praha said:

He's right to a degree, where we've gone and how we've developed are probably below where we'd want and where we think they should be. We were a far better side than 4 wins in 2014, we were better than a 7 win side in 2015, and as it stands we're better than a 7 win side in 2016 but it might be tough once again to move beyond it. Three years in a row now we lose the same games, against the same teams, in situations we should win, but don't. It's a vicious cycle. Last year against Geelong we "turned the corner". Against Richmond and then Collingwood we "turned the corner". But we lose to Essendon, get smashed by St Kilda, get smashed by Port, can't win at Etihad, let teams break all sorts of records against us (tackling, contested ball), let spuds light it up under no pressure. It's astonishing. Still. We're had this conversation at the same time each of the past three years.

Blues, Saints have all pushed top 8 sides on a number of occasions but we tend to fold. Guys like N Jone and Vince, they've been in the system for a decade. I was disappointed with Jones on the weekend because surely he must be sick of loosing there and against that mob. His body language didn't scream "LET'S WIN THIS" to me. I hate to point the finger at him, though. He's one guy. But he's cooked as a leader. I've said it once and I'll say it again: A Nate Jones captained Melbourne just won't go very far. It's a hard thing to say against a club stalwart, but it is what it is #Neeldism. 

I'm worried that guys like McDonald, Jetta, Tyson, Garlett have all developed losing habits. None of them are "leaders", they tend to be part and parcel of bad performances. My concern with Viney is that he becomes just another Jones: a good player and clubman but just someone who goes through the motions. He had a Nathan Jones kind-of-game on Sunday: good, but, like, nothing special. He held his head high and performed. It was one of those "the only guy who can hold his head high" kind of games.

I went into the game thinking, "Surely we'll beat them. Surely. SURELY!" I'm more bewildered than angry now. It's a rather astonishing record. Comical, even.

And we have another one this week. Eagles have beaten us the last nine times. We haven't won in Perth since 2002 (!!!!).

We're just a bad club. It's not so much the development. It's just a bad club with bad records. You could bring in God himself and even he would surely think, "[censored], this club hasn't won here in a decade+...what hope do we have!" 

Melbourne isn't just coming back from a poor list and poor performances. It's trying to climb out of a stigma that hangs onto the jumper like a desperate ex. That's got to have some sort of effect on whoever pulls the jumper on. There's no "pride". That's hard to build.

Yes exactly and the Ox played in a period where we almost broke that losing stigma. 

The Ox can say what he likes about Melbourne

take a look at his '94 highlights

he delivered. 

[Satyriconhome 10,689]

48 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Ox should join Demonland

He doesn't need to he has enough supporters on here, who will repeat his emotion filled rants, it's just footy, I will still have a good life if MFC don't win a flag in my time   if they do it will be a bonus, will still go and watch the at Etihad, unlike some of the more emotional 

[rjay 24,852]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

Ox and many supporters here don't get it and a quick to blame convenient issues such as "psychobabble of Etihad".

Etihad highlights our lack of speed.  Our onballers are really one-paced.  Petracca and Brayshaw aren't quick either.  Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem etc... etc...  I said it in a post earlier this year.  We can't defend a quick spreading team, and are better suited to playing the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, North Melbourne, Freo (circa 2016), Geelong, Hawthorn rather than super-quick teams.

Bulldogs beat us there by 100 wasn't it, a year ago.  St.Kilda are inconsistent, but our supporter-base haven't given them the respect they deserve.  They are young, provide ferocity at the contest, and are quick.

Matthew Lloyd said the same thing about North's mids last night on FC.  One-paced and lack line-breakers.  Leigh Matthews has said it about us time and time again, but because it is a negative, demon supporters block their ears and mention "Bruns".

 

 

 

Roos and Co have done well; but they have gone over-board on one-paced inside types.

 

Penny finally dropped?  Maybe.

Hawthorn had the same problem, I remember talking to a few of their supporters and one in particular who worked at the AFL. The conventional wisdom at the time was they couldn't win a flag with Hodge, Mitchell, Sewel and Lewis in the midfield...too slow.

...they won one and then fixed it with Hill & Smith.

[Sir Why You Little 36,957]

12 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

He doesn't need to he has enough supporters on here, who will repeat his emotion filled rants, it's just footy, I will still have a good life if MFC don't win a flag in my time   if they do it will be a bonus, will still go and watch the at Etihad, unlike some of the more emotional 

Watching the MFC is just like being back in your little scout troop isn't it Satyr. 

For The Queen and Baden Powell

Your little social outing

Bet you would never bag out the Ox to his face would you?

Hypercrite 100%

3 knees for this club and he still played on. 

He wants his kids to be proud Demons. 

Success is what will do that. 

Not bullshite performances like sunday after 1/4 time

[Satyriconhome 10,689]

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Watching the MFC is just like being back in your little scout troop isn't it Satyr. 

For The Queen and Baden Powell

Your little social outing

Bet you would never bag out the Ox to his face would you?

Hypercrite 100%

3 knees for this club and he still played on. 

He wants his kids to be proud Demons. 

Success is what will do that. 

Not bullshite performances like sunday after 1/4 time

Yes I agree Ox was a good player, but now he is just another mouth in the competitive media market, yes I would, told Barrett to his face one of his 'stories' on MFC was crap, I don't hide behind a keyboard,  you are only as good as your last headline in the media these days    just as an aside did Ox ever hold the premiership cup for MFC or were there valid reasons he didn't, answers without emotion would be appreciated

I watch and comment on footy for what it is SPORT

[stuie 7,374]

46 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

I just don't think that excessive pressure creates any positives in a young team, whether deserved or not.

Fair enough, I get where you're coming from with that, I just think we deserve a bit of a whack just like any other team would for a performance like that and this week we've probably escaped it a bit.

[Sir Why You Little 36,957]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes I agree Ox was a good player, but now he is just another mouth in the competitive media market, yes I would, told Barrett to his face one of his 'stories' on MFC was crap, I don't hide behind a keyboard,  you are only as good as your last headline in the media these days    just as an aside did Ox ever hold the premiership cup for MFC or were there valid reasons he didn't, answers without emotion would be appreciated

I watch and comment on footy for what it is SPORT

Haha telling something to Damien Barrett's face is not the same as facing off to The Ox you old fool. 

The Ox bled for this club and i want to see you tell him to his face that he is merely chasing Headlines!

How dare you!!

you really do not care if this club improves do you, as long as it exists Satyr's little world is complete

[M_9 2,078]

I don't understand what's happening with our kick-ins. The last few weeks, including Sunday, it seems completely arbitrary as to who kicks in - Jetta, Harmes, Vince, TMac etc.

Earlier in the year Vince took 90% or so. In Darwin we even saw Hunt kick in twice (for two stuff ups).. TMac - FMD. Jetta has an upper limit of 50m.

If Vince is not 100%, then there has to be a better option than sharing it around. I'd look at White (if he doesn't attempt to play on) or even take a risk with Frost (who will play on).

[Fork 'em 6,983]

I've hardly read any of the thread but I'm behind the OX 100%.
And whoever reckons he was just chasing a headline obviously doesn't have a clue.

[Satyriconhome 10,689]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Haha telling something to Damien Barrett's face is not the same as facing off to The Ox you old fool. 

The Ox bled for this club and i want to see you tell him to his face that he is merely chasing Headlines!

How dare you!!

you really do not care if this club improves do you, as long as it exists Satyr's little world is complete

Why what Ox do?   Hit me?  You are allowed to express an opinion to somebody as long as you do it the right way

You really have spent your life bending over haven't you

And the reasons he never held the premiership cup, like I asked?

[Chris 2,892]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

Fair enough, I get where you're coming from with that, I just think we deserve a bit of a whack just like any other team would for a performance like that and this week we've probably escaped it a bit.

I agree the players need a bit of a whack but am confident that if that would benefit the club then the coaches would hand it to them. I also think the coaches say things in the media when they want the team to cop it, maybe this happened with a quiet word to the Ox behind closed doors, we will never know. 

I am not a fan of the ex player media identity having an emotion filled crack live on air (unless asked to by the club). Happy for criticism and analysis but not emotive filled diatribe. May well do more bad than good behind closed doors. 

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, Chris said:

I agree the players need a bit of a whack but am confident that if that would benefit the club then the coaches would hand it to them. I also think the coaches say things in the media when they want the team to cop it, maybe this happened with a quiet word to the Ox behind closed doors, we will never know. 

I am not a fan of the ex player media identity having an emotion filled crack live on air (unless asked to by the club). Happy for criticism and analysis but not emotive filled diatribe. May well do more bad than good behind closed doors. 

I would doubt Ox is someone Roos would go to for a media spray, just doesn't click to me, Roos is measured and Ox is, well, not.

Being the club we are, I'm just glad to hear any passion from people involved with us at any level. We've been so soulless and gutless for so long, we can always do with passion IMO. Let's not forget, Ox is very one-eyed when it comes to the Dees generally. He talks us up (when performances allow it), he gets more excited commentating our games than anyone else does, and oyu can hear the joy in his voice when interviewing MFC players on radio.

He's a supporter like us, he just desperately wants success and wants the players to feel that way too.

 

[stuie 7,374]

10 minutes ago, M_9 said:

I don't understand what's happening with our kick-ins. The last few weeks, including Sunday, it seems completely arbitrary as to who kicks in - Jetta, Harmes, Vince, TMac etc.

Earlier in the year Vince took 90% or so. In Darwin we even saw Hunt kick in twice (for two stuff ups).. TMac - FMD. Jetta has an upper limit of 50m.

If Vince is not 100%, then there has to be a better option than sharing it around. I'd look at White (if he doesn't attempt to play on) or even take a risk with Frost (who will play on).

Harmes took the majority of them on Sunday didn't he? Vince should not have played, he couldn't kick well and he couldn't change direction when running.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,957]

12 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Why what Ox do?   Hit me?  You are allowed to express an opinion to somebody as long as you do it the right way

You really have spent your life bending over haven't you

And the reasons he never held the premiership cup, like I asked?

I will leave the bending over all to you Satyr

You said The Ox is merely chasing headlines

You are clueless and have no idea about competitive SPORT

You just like being around young lads in shorts

As if the Ox wouldn't care about The MFC

Edited July 19, 2016 by Sir Why You Little

[Chris 2,892]

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

I would doubt Ox is someone Roos would go to for a media spray, just doesn't click to me, Roos is measured and Ox is, well, not.

Being the club we are, I'm just glad to hear any passion from people involved with us at any level. We've been so soulless and gutless for so long, we can always do with passion IMO. Let's not forget, Ox is very one-eyed when it comes to the Dees generally. He talks us up (when performances allow it), he gets more excited commentating our games than anyone else does, and oyu can hear the joy in his voice when interviewing MFC players on radio.

He's a supporter like us, he just desperately wants success and wants the players to feel that way too.

 

I agree about Ox and his passion and the need for passionate people around the club, he just needs to curb it a bit in the negative because it may do harm, it also may not but it would be good to know before publicly whacking a bunch of kids. 

I also doubt Roos sought out Ox to do this, but you never know, maybe Roos was looking for the public display of passion from a club great, god knows Lyon was never great at it either way and he isn't available at the moment anyway. Other then the Ox who else is there to do it?

One thing Roos is great at is man management, that is where he has excelled as a coach and with this club, if he thought the players needed a public whacking I am sure it would happen somehow. 

[M_9 2,078]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Harmes took the majority of them on Sunday didn't he? Vince should not have played, he couldn't kick well and he couldn't change direction when running.

 

Of the 20 kick ins I reckon Harmes and Vince may have shared 14, Jetta, TMac, and others the rest. There just doesn't appear to be any set play as there was earlier in the year.

Kick ins at Etihad just seem to be more critical because of the shorter (and narrower) ground. I would have thought with Gawn's height and Hunt's run we could have done more. I reckon I heard a month or so ago we were ranked fourth for goals from kick ins.

Having said all that, I guess on the bigger ground this week we'll see Vince play on and get the ball as far from goal as possible a la the earlier rounds.

[mo64 5,853]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

I agree the players need a bit of a whack but am confident that if that would benefit the club then the coaches would hand it to them. I also think the coaches say things in the media when they want the team to cop it, maybe this happened with a quiet word to the Ox behind closed doors, we will never know. 

I am not a fan of the ex player media identity having an emotion filled crack live on air (unless asked to by the club). Happy for criticism and analysis but not emotive filled diatribe. May well do more bad than good behind closed doors. 

Why not? He's not a paid employee of the club. He's on the radio 5 mornings a week, and it's his style to be emotive about football. It's not like he just targets Melbourne for criticicm. He'll call it as he sees it.

The football media is largely made up of ex players. Some of them see themselves as football analysts, others see themselves as entertainers. Ox falls into the latter category.

[TGR 1,367]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Hawthorn had the same problem, I remember talking to a few of their supporters and one in particular who worked at the AFL. The conventional wisdom at the time was they couldn't win a flag with Hodge, Mitchell, Sewel and Lewis in the midfield...too slow.

...they won one and then fixed it with Hill & Smith.

When you are absolutely elite at some stats (kicking efficiency; accuracy at goal etc...); of course this will cover up other deficiencies (slow one paced midfield).

 

Geelong's forward line in their zenith (2007 - 2011) wasn't that much to write home about.

[Chris 2,892]

20 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Why not? He's not a paid employee of the club. He's on the radio 5 mornings a week, and it's his style to be emotive about football. It's not like he just targets Melbourne for criticicm. He'll call it as he sees it.

The football media is largely made up of ex players. Some of them see themselves as football analysts, others see themselves as entertainers. Ox falls into the latter category.

Simple, as I have stated this sort of thing can actually have a negative affect on the team, the opposite can also be true. He may actually be doing harm to the club he is so passionate about, that is not a good thing and anyone with the responsibility of having a public voice should have an understanding of that and keep it in the back of their mind when making statements such as this.