Is Roos our best coach since Norm Smith?

[mo64 5,853]

3 minutes ago, poita said:

Northey and Daniher are both miles ahead of Roos, and even Balme in 1994 had a super team before injuries destroyed the team over the next three seasons.

Roos can't be considered in the same company because his match day coaching is so average.

Spot on. To give credit to Roos for building a list is a massive exaggeration. The cornerstone of our team are Hogan, Gawn and Viney, none of whom were acquired under Roos. And we haven't landed a decent free agent under Roos. Our trading has been passable, but not exceptional. In essence we got Bernie Vince for Matt Crouch. Garlett has been our best trade.

Our recruiting has improved under Jason Taylor. No credit to Roos there.

The list of promising talent (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) was the result of high draft picks due to poor performance. Again, no credit to Roos.

As a coach, Roos has been no different to Bailey in his first 3 years, but his reputation has brought us stability, on and off the field. 

The OP is insulting to Northey and Daniher, and I rate Balme ahead of Roos.

[Bossdog 2,002]

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Spot on. To give credit to Roos for building a list is a massive exaggeration. The cornerstone of our team are Hogan, Gawn and Viney, none of whom were acquired under Roos. And we haven't landed a decent free agent under Roos. Our trading has been passable, but not exceptional. In essence we got Bernie Vince for Matt Crouch. Garlett has been our best trade.

Our recruiting has improved under Jason Taylor. No credit to Roos there.

The list of promising talent (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) was the result of high draft picks due to poor performance. Again, no credit to Roos.

As a coach, Roos has been no different to Bailey in his first 3 years, but his reputation has brought us stability, on and off the field. 

The OP is insulting to Northey and Daniher, and I rate Balme ahead of Roos.

So.....Roos may well of not bothered to come to the MFC......You don't give him credit for any improvement to the team????

We have seen before that top draft picks mean nothing....You need a coach that will mould and develop players into a good team and after the basket case which our team was, I credit him with bringing it all together, where the players are confident and willing to get the wins and being in a game and knowing that they can win.

To me Roos is a smart operator and has set up this team for sucess.   

[mo64 5,853]

1 minute ago, Bossdog said:

So.....Roos may well of not bothered to come to the MFC......You don't give him credit for any improvement to the team????

We have seen before that top draft picks mean nothing....You need a coach that will mould and develop players into a good team and after the basket case which our team was, I credit him with bringing it all together, where the players are confident and willing to get the wins and being in a game and knowing that they can win.

To me Roos is a smart operator and has set up this team for sucess.   

The improvement of the team has been at the same level as it was under Bailey. We could finish anywhere from 9th to 13th this year, which is nothing to gloat about in your 3rd season as coach.

I give Jackson the credit for bringing stability to the club. Roos has been a by-product of that stability. As an matchday coach, Roos has been average at best.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Spot on. To give credit to Roos for building a list is a massive exaggeration. The cornerstone of our team are Hogan, Gawn and Viney, none of whom were acquired under Roos. And we haven't landed a decent free agent under Roos. Our trading has been passable, but not exceptional. In essence we got Bernie Vince for Matt Crouch. Garlett has been our best trade.

Our recruiting has improved under Jason Taylor. No credit to Roos there.

The list of promising talent (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) was the result of high draft picks due to poor performance. Again, no credit to Roos.

As a coach, Roos has been no different to Bailey in his first 3 years, but his reputation has brought us stability, on and off the field. 

The OP is insulting to Northey and Daniher, and I rate Balme ahead of Roos.

That is a very interesting point of view Mo and some good arguments that made me stop and think. I don't think you can underestimate though the stability that Roos has bought to the Club.

It is difficult to believe that Hogan or Watts would have signed contract extensions if some like a Neeld was still coach. Also whilst Roos may not be regarded as an A grade match day coach the bloke did win a flag for Sydney and runner up the following year. You cannot win flags by accident. 

Away from the onfield contribution having someone of his statue at the Club has no doubt reassured and kept sponsors. 

The transition from Roos to Goodwin is shaping up to be almost seamless. 

When he arrived our Football Club and team were dying a slow death. It isn't too difficult to picture no Club at all if it wasn't for Roos (and Jackson)

As others have mentioned he may not have been our best coach in recent history but he is certainly out most important

[old55 23,352]

2 hours ago, poita said:

Northey and Daniher are both miles ahead of Roos, and even Balme in 1994 had a super team before injuries destroyed the team over the next three seasons.

Roos can't be considered in the same company because he's not going the distance.

EFA

[Little Goffy 14,437]

Daniher spun 'almost gold' out of 'barely even straw', given the situation the club was in and the melodrama and incompetence of multiple administrations.

If I give myself permission to be excited, then I'd compare the Barassi/Northey record to the anticipated Roos/Goodwin record.

Roos appears to have got us back into competitive shape in half the time it took Barassi. I note that the record PaulRB is for completed seasons, so just a few more wins this year and he'll push past a 30% win ratio for his time with us, which is damn impressive given where

May Goodwin bring it all to maturity, and go just one win better than Northey or Daniher.

 

[Ricky P 757]

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Spot on. To give credit to Roos for building a list is a massive exaggeration. The cornerstone of our team are Hogan, Gawn and Viney, none of whom were acquired under Roos. And we haven't landed a decent free agent under Roos. Our trading has been passable, but not exceptional. In essence we got Bernie Vince for Matt Crouch. Garlett has been our best trade.

Our recruiting has improved under Jason Taylor. No credit to Roos there.

The list of promising talent (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) was the result of high draft picks due to poor performance. Again, no credit to Roos.

As a coach, Roos has been no different to Bailey in his first 3 years, but his reputation has brought us stability, on and off the field. 

The OP is insulting to Northey and Daniher, and I rate Balme ahead of Roos.

This is basically a post about recruiting where the good stuff is credited to the recruiting staff and the bad stuff is blamed on Roos.

[Guest]

Roos has been extremely important but we need to remember that while we may have built a decent platform to attack the future a great deal more confidence we haven't actually achieved anything.  The main thing that Roos brought with him was credibility, and this intangible quality has meant that we are taken seriously again.

Look at the last team that played under Neeld and see how far the list has come.  

Roos is a major player in a multi-faceted plan implemented by several characters.  He and a number of others have contributed to identifying areas to improve and implementing plans to make it happen.

At this stage the club appears to be purring along nicely, but let's save the backslapping for the day that we hold the cup aloft.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Guest

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

Northey had the ability to create good performers out of average players like Dean Chiron, Doug Koop, Jamie Duursma andAndy Goodwin. I think there were others....Eishold, for example.

Duursma managed to beat Brereton( or was it Dunstall?) and Kernahan in successive weeks.

Chiron managed to beat Platten(who Brereton rates as the best player he ever played with)

Edited July 16, 2016 by Jumping Jack Clennett
Typo

[bush demon 2,035]

1. John Northey   (five finals straight, one GF)

2. Neil Daniher     (one prelim, one GF. Preim in first year after low '97 year. 

3. Paul Roos        (stabilised club and pointing north three years in a row. 

4. Ian Ridley         who can forget fantastic '71 first half season.

5. Neil Balme        attacking football coach, lost a lot of players in '95 through injury. 

6. Carl Ditterich    flew the flag.

7. Bob Skilton       almost did the unthinkable; getting us into the finals in the 70's (1976)

8. John Beckwith   had a mid-table finish in '67 after taking over from NS.

9. Ron Barassi      some great recruiting coups (Moore, Icke, Jarrett?  and forgot the other norf player) and breathed some life into our 80's campaign.

10. Dean Bailey    had some positive moments in his early coaching phase. undone one day on the G. v Hawthorn and we seemed to bottom out after that. 

 

Honourable mentions: Dennis Jones, Mark Neeld, 

 

[mo64 5,853]

2 hours ago, fndee said:

That is a very interesting point of view Mo and some good arguments that made me stop and think. I don't think you can underestimate though the stability that Roos has bought to the Club.

It is difficult to believe that Hogan or Watts would have signed contract extensions if some like a Neeld was still coach. Also whilst Roos may not be regarded as an A grade match day coach the bloke did win a flag for Sydney and runner up the following year. You cannot win flags by accident. 

Away from the onfield contribution having someone of his statue at the Club has no doubt reassured and kept sponsors. 

The transition from Roos to Goodwin is shaping up to be almost seamless. 

When he arrived our Football Club and team were dying a slow death. It isn't too difficult to picture no Club at all if it wasn't for Roos (and Jackson)

As others have mentioned he may not have been our best coach in recent history but he is certainly out most important

Your 1st point about player retention can't be proven or disproven. And didn't we shop Watts around last year, but there were no takers? Secondly, Malthouse, Pagan and Blight were premiership coaches who failed at their next club. The game evolves, and sometimes coaches don't evolve with it.

Your 2nd point is spot on. A couple of months ago, PJ was interviewed prior to a game. We'd had a win the previous week, and the media were lauding the team and Roos. The interviewer asked PJ about Roos, and his response was all about Roos offering stability, and retaining membership and sponsorship. A first time coach would have endured far more scrutiny with Roos' coaching record at Melbourne. Not once did PJ praise Roos' onfield efforts. Naturally we lost this game, because the team never responds well to backslapping.

Edited July 15, 2016 by mo64

[Biffen 12,940]

Swooper for inspiration.

The Rev for match day.

Roos for Kulcha

[Ricky P 757]

Roos has completely transformed our player development.

And, whilst he hasn't actually picked the players, he's heavily influenced our recruitment philosophy - e.g. we want competitors. This has undoubtedly significantly contributed to vastly improved recruitment results during his tenure.

Not to mention the fact that he's hired quality staff in both areas that will hopefully see our improvement continue into the future.

Finally - the season isn't over and we could still make the finals!

[pitmaster 3,512]

5 hours ago, mo64 said:

Spot on. To give credit to Roos for building a list is a massive exaggeration. The cornerstone of our team are Hogan, Gawn and Viney, none of whom were acquired under Roos. And we haven't landed a decent free agent under Roos. Our trading has been passable, but not exceptional. In essence we got Bernie Vince for Matt Crouch. Garlett has been our best trade.

Our recruiting has improved under Jason Taylor. No credit to Roos there.

The list of promising talent (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) was the result of high draft picks due to poor performance. Again, no credit to Roos.

As a coach, Roos has been no different to Bailey in his first 3 years, but his reputation has brought us stability, on and off the field. 

The OP is insulting to Northey and Daniher, and I rate Balme ahead of Roos.

Balme was lazy. Had the good fortune to have Schwarz at his emerging best and a list that was finals-hardened thanks to Northey who achieved an enormous amount with sub-standard facilities. Northey's team were honest, blue collar battlers with a smattering of excellence and never gave up. Balme's teams drifted. Daniher was sensational for a while but became too wedded to certain players and neglected list revival.

I put Northey at the top, followed by Neale not far behind. Roos is very important though his record will not approach the other two. There's no question our recruiting has been better under Roos also, so his influence will be prolonged. We had high draft picks and blew them before - our use of high picks has been markedly improved and I disagree, some credit there goes to Roos for laying down the sort of characters - competitors foremost - that he wanted drafted.

[Guest]

Roos may be our most important coach but his body of work at a superficial level is hard to judge. It will be the atmosphere around the club that will be his legacy.

mo64's point about retaining Watts in 2013 can be disproven as I clearly remember Jack receiving a bollocking from clowns like Derm because Jack appeared on The Footy Show and openly stated that he needed to think about whether he actually wanted to stay. That was after Neeld was chopped. I would have hated to have seen how ambivalent he would have been had he stayed.

Compare that time to now. Jack is well ahead of the game and saying he never wanted to leave this time around. This speaks volumes about the uptick in positivity around the joint and that will be Roos' legacy.

As for who was the best coach, I would say Swoop was slightly better record wise but it was a simpler time.  He was very much the last of the hot gospellers and that's not a derogatory statement. It was a time when motivation and 'having a go' could make you a great team. Neale was tactically superior but why I will give Swoop the slightest of nods is that members of his 87/88 teams were still important players 10 years later (Jimmy, Viney, the Gaz man, the Febeys, Stinga). I do defend Neale over charges that he wrecked the list. The list had run it's race and it was time to rebuild thanks to the peaks and troughs of footy. That being said who from that 2006 season stood the test of time? (besides Chunk and Dunny who will most likely will be gone next year).

So for a more enduring legacy, it's Swoop by a bee's diaphragm.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

He's not our most successful but he is the "best" coach we've had guiding us since the Golden Era.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

On 14/07/2016 at 8:23 PM, picket fence said:

John Northey by a street !!

With what they each had to work with Northey overachieved and Danners underachieved I think.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

12 hours ago, mo64 said:

Spot on. To give credit to Roos for building a list is a massive exaggeration. The cornerstone of our team are Hogan, Gawn and Viney, none of whom were acquired under Roos. And we haven't landed a decent free agent under Roos. Our trading has been passable, but not exceptional. In essence we got Bernie Vince for Matt Crouch. Garlett has been our best trade.

Our recruiting has improved under Jason Taylor. No credit to Roos there.

The list of promising talent (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver) was the result of high draft picks due to poor performance. Again, no credit to Roos.

As a coach, Roos has been no different to Bailey in his first 3 years, but his reputation has brought us stability, on and off the field. 

The OP is insulting to Northey and Daniher, and I rate Balme ahead of Roos.

You're talking about personnel Roos has instilled structure, culture and belief - completely different.

[Earl Hood 6,082]

8 hours ago, bush demon said:

1. John Northey   (five finals straight, one GF)

2. Neil Daniher     (one prelim, one GF. Preim in first year after low '97 year. 

3. Paul Roos        (stabilised club and pointing north three years in a row. 

4. Ian Ridley         who can forget fantastic '71 first half season.

5. Neil Balme        attacking football coach, lost a lot of players in '95 through injury. 

6. Carl Ditterich    flew the flag.

7. Bob Skilton       almost did the unthinkable; getting us into the finals in the 70's (1976)

8. John Beckwith   had a mid-table finish in '67 after taking over from NS.

9. Ron Barassi      some great recruiting coups (Moore, Icke, Jarrett?  and forgot the other norf player) and breathed some life into our 80's campaign.

10. Dean Bailey    had some positive moments in his early coaching phase. undone one day on the G. v Hawthorn and we seemed to bottom out after that. 

 

Honourable mentions: Dennis Jones, Mark Neeld, 

 

Re point 9 do you mean Shane Zantuck? Won a couple of B&Fs I think. 

[mo64 5,853]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're talking about personnel Roos has instilled structure, culture and belief - completely different.

It's premature to be talking about culture and belief. Beveridge instilled belief into the Dogs from day 1. Belief equates to unexpected success. Haven't seen any evidence of that under Roos.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

It's premature to be talking about culture and belief. Beveridge instilled belief into the Dogs from day 1. Belief equates to unexpected success. Haven't seen any evidence of that under Roos.

Would you have prefered a different coach these last 3 years?

If so who?

[praha 11,227]

Easily Northey. Danners was a good coach but almosy the extreme version of a "people person". Played players who shouldn't have played because he liked them, wasn't particularly good with development or drafting, in many ways benefited from Balme's era of drafting. Love Danners but his inability to keep the team playing consistently killed me. Should have been let go after 2003.

No one comes close to Northey since NSmith.

If we beat both of Geelong in Geelong and Hawthorn, Roos would be a close second, followed by Daniher.

Balme was underrated. He knew how to coach and how to utilize each player to their skillset. Injuries kill his career, which was a product of bad club management and facilities.

Edited July 15, 2016 by praha

[mo64 5,853]

31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Would you have prefered a different coach these last 3 years?

If so who?

Ridiculous question. Clarkson, Longmire, C. Scott, B. Scott, Beveridge, Simpson, A. Richardson, Lyon have all outcoached Roos over the past 3 years, so take your pick.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

1 minute ago, mo64 said:

Ridiculous question. Clarkson, Longmire, C. Scott, B. Scott, Beveridge, Simpson, A. Richardson, Lyon have all outcoached Roos over the past 3 years, so take your pick.

But were they the people to Revive a club that was Dead at the end of 2013?

who else would have got the ship upright and stopped the bleeding. 

That is where we are right now. If the players believe we are still a chance to play September '16

[Undeeterred 3,117]

Northey by streets.

For all the good The Reverend did, and no matter how much we love him, we've arguably never recovered from the damage he did towards the end of his tenure.

Edit: Not necessarily suggesting that the abysmal club management etc post 2006 was Daniher's fault, but he left a list in tatters and we've not been able to repair it until we nailed top picks in the last 3-4 years.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Undeeterred