Changes v Hawthorn

[Copuchas 763]

12 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Ok, let me say I have a pathological hatred of the Hawks that stems back to the days when Lethal wiped out Steve Smith, Peter Giles and Allen Jarrot - all three concussions on days when our men were doing super jobs. I reckon my fondest memory was watching the Dees finally break though against the Hawks at Princes Park in 1984 - Peter Tossol played the game of his life that day with two goals - that was the equivalent of Matt Jones getting two goals nowadays! But having a couple of best mates, who support the poohs and wees, continually remind me of how the Hawks have won more flags since 1964 than Melbourne has won in their entire AFL/VFL lifetime, hurts bad.

For that reason I want us to pull off the upset this week and for that reason I hope Roosy and his team are working overtime to select the right side this week and to do the necessary adjustments to our press.

Dear Roosy, I have 10 keys to selection:

1) Have a player tag Sam Mitchell. When the Swans did so, it worked. He is their best distributor and also best at clearance work, so please Roosy, don't let him run free like you did to last year's players' MVP Robbie Gray last week. With Viney out, there is only one qualified tagger left to use - Bernie Vince. That means he doesn't play back this week unless Mitchell gets sent forward in desperation.

2) Re-educate the players on the press. I am not asking for it to be thrown out in the bathwater, because most of us with sound minds can see it has benefits when it functions, but please stress the importance of forcing lockdowns when the break starts even if it means giving away free kicks in our forward half - the good thing is that the Hawks only have four genuine quicks in their line-up to hurt us on the switch - Smith, Hartung, Hill and Rioli. So it will be harder for them to exploit us over-pressing. Please also stress that once the diamond centre square ball-up is completed, players have to run hard back to their opponent. Talk is the key - communicating down back is essential.

3) Play Nathan Jones down back instead of Bernie. Why. Because every week we need to think about doing something that mucks up opposition plans. With Viney out, Shiels will tag Jones. Playing him down back ensures our defence talks, gives us another leader down there and forces Shiels to wonder who he goes to.

4) Play Chris Dawes. I'm sure Roosy is across this already by now, but not having a third tall up forward means that when Watts rucks and Gawny rests we have only one viable tall option to kick to - Hoges. And that means when Hoges gets it, he has to turn around and hit up ... Petracca? There is a reason why every other side plays three talls. We all have criticised Dawes for not clunking his marks in the past, but at least he makes a contest and the ball usually spills and I thought the whole point this year is that with Kent, Garlett, Harmes and Kennedy we had an abundance of crumbers. By the way, Watts can still play as second ruck - it seems to be keeping him more honest at the contest, although Ceglar may try and hammer him, but it's worth risking and the umps love Wattsy because they know he's a ball player.

5) Tell Petracca he's on his last chance. So far his training form has been the best thing about him. It's time he stood up and showed why we were all raving about him. And please Roosy, explain to him that when he takes a mark, he has to get back quickly to give himself space to launch his kick. He's still playing school footy at times thinking he can pinpoint a pass off one step - he can, of course, except the AFL guy on the mark is a little bit smarter and can get a hand on it. 

6) Play Jack Grimes. Yes I know half the D'Lers don't like him, but the same guys don't like Tom Mac because they didn't quite understand that in previous years the defenders were under pressure - almost all the time - when they went to kick it. I also get that you and Goody have decided he's for the chop at year's end. I realise that you have ended his defensive days. But Grimesy is persistent - he keeps churning out inocuous 30-plus possy games in the twos and then when you make him 23rd and give him false hope that he's close, he backs up the following week and does the same thing. He also scores goals from his wing and doesn't miss from anything under 40m - this is despite the fact that you don't rate him. But sometimes coaches get it wrong - look at Luke Beveridge and his no ruckman policy at the start of last year. Eventually he had to back track and realise that a decent negating ruck is a godsend to a side that prides itself on clearances. Grimes is the second fittest bloke at the club and despite all the rhetoric that he's a turnover freak, his disposal efficiency remains mega high. He gets to contests and he links up - he's not a star but he's a role player and you need it.

7) Play Lynden Dunn - Yep I agree, he's getting slower and older and at some stage soon Oscar will be better at nudging his opponent under the contest. But at this stage Oscar is just a development player. It's been great that you've got a few games into him, but his visual awareness of what's around him is still development league stuff, even if his tank and running ability is top-end. Go back to your senior player - yes he'll be slower but in the next few weeks Dunny can play on McEvoy/Ceglar and Cloke and Tippett. He might even be quicker than them. And with Salem out, you get a reliable kick from full-back kick-ins every time.

8) Play Trengove - Yes I know your marketing guys wanted him to return for a home game, but the Hawks at the MCG is huge. They are nothing like previous years and provided we don't let them get to play keepings off down back (ie: we need to get off to a good start) then we will force them to attack and they will be exploited by us on the break. Most D'Lers know Trengove isn't quick, but nor is Neal-Bullen, and Newton is probably the slowest player at the club, so giving him a go at their expense, will actually speed us up. And the difference is that Trenners is smart - he keeps presenting and he's a good kick. He's like Jack Grimes, except he's tougher in a contest. Start him on a flank and then give him a run through the middle.

9) Play Vandenburg. Sure he's only had the one game in the VFL on his way back, but we need his presence and in particular we need him to take Smith's wing and hammer him. Some D'lers don't realise that he's the second quickest player over 50m at the club. Now that he's over his ankle injury it's time to unleash him on their main attacking weapon. It's either him or Harmes and while Harmesy has been great, he still is a bit hit and miss. There's nothing wrong with sending young guys back to the reserves, it's what all club's do for their development from time to time. And because Vanders will be blowing, have him swap with Grimes midway every quarter. Grimes may not be flash but he will stick to a task.

10) Play T-Mac on Gunston. With Roughy out, he's their go-to man and that's means T-Mac gets the job. We all know that Jetta gets Rioli, so that means Hunt goes to Breust which ain't easy but he's got to stand up and not be bumped off him. And personally I'd have Jones (see earlier rationale) on Puopolo because when Jonesy tackles, they stick. 

Yes I know there a lot of changes and way to many for you to cope with in a normal week. But it's time you went back to your senior players (plus Oliver). Big bodies, extra experience and hopefully a better chance. And if it doesn't work, you can say in your presser that you were playing the three-time premiers.

One more thing. I'm sure you are thinking about axing Kent as well and, given his rush of blood when kicking most weeks, then I can understand that. But your whole pre-season was based around a fab four forwards - Hoges, Garlett, Watts and Kent - who are dangerous on the break. Give Kent another go and show him the tapes of what he did against Richmond and how he baulked and settled before he kicked it. 

My seven changes and opponents

Out: Garland, Viney (inj) Newton, Neal-Bullen, Kennedy, Harmes, O.Mac

In: Vandenburg, Dawes, Dunn, Oliver, Grimes, Trengove, Michie

B: Jetta (Rioli) Dunn (McEvoy/Ceglar) Wagner (O'Brien/Sicily)

HB: Jones (Puopolo) T-Mac (Gunston) Hunt (Breust)

C: Vandenberg/Grimes (Smith) Vince (Mitchell) Stretch (Hill/Hartung)

HF: Trengove (Burgoyne)  Dawes (Gibson) Kent (Birchall)

F: Garlett (Duryea) Hoges (Frawley) Watts (Stratton)

Ru: Gawn (McEvoy/Ceglar) Tyson (Lewis) Oliver (Shiels)

Int: Michie (defensive rotation), Petracca (offensive rotation), Grimes/Vanders, Bugg (midfield rotation)

 

 

 

    

 

Very insightful analysis....  7 changes probably a bridge too far - 5 is realistically what we can hope for.  Both Trengove and Vandenberg too great a risk on the AFL level match fitness front.  Pick one and look to bring the other in next week.  Michie to miss.  Harmes to stay in.   Dawes will get picked and I suspect he may well have a few pundits on here revising their views.   Pederson a bit unlucky.

[dino rover 714]

If we are playing the diamond defence or aiming for more offence from defense then does playing players specifically on x or y make sense?

Does calling for tmac to shutdown x or y or put frost on the gorilla matter as much as reading play, intercepting and passing to advantage? im a fan of frost over omac but omac may be favoured for his kicking relative to his gorilla tending abilities. 

[beelzebub 23,347]

14 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Ok, let me say I have a pathological hatred of the Hawks that stems back to the days when Lethal wiped out Steve Smith, Peter Giles and Allen Jarrot - all three concussions on days when our men were doing super jobs. I reckon my fondest memory was watching the Dees finally break though against the Hawks at Princes Park in 1984 - Peter Tossol played the game of his life that day with two goals - that was the equivalent of Matt Jones getting two goals nowadays! But having a couple of best mates, who support the poohs and wees, continually remind me of how the Hawks have won more flags since 1964 than Melbourne has won in their entire AFL/VFL lifetime, hurts bad.

.........

you forgot  Lethal and Dipper cruching Tulip....  but I digress 

 

much to like about your post there Deespicable...but we know most will never happen.   and thats a shame

Roos probably thinks we just have to persevere.....why and with what is anyones guess..

[Fat Tony 5,228]

5 hours ago, Redleg said:

We have on AFL site, 6 regular top 22 players injured while Hawks have 2. 

Will make it that much harder. 

Anyway, teams under full strength seem to do well against us, so here is hoping. 

The way I see it Hawthorn are missing champions Roughead and Hodge and Viney is our only significant out. All our other key players (N Jones, Vince, Hogan, Garlett, Gawn, T McDonald, Jetta) are playing.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

6 hours ago, Redleg said:

We have on AFL site, 6 regular top 22 players injured while Hawks have 2. 

Will make it that much harder. 

Anyway, teams under full strength seem to do well against us, so here is hoping. 

Viney, Salem and Brayshaw are the only "best 22" that are out for me and vandenBerg isn't fit yet.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

24 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Viney, Salem and Brayshaw are the only "best 22" that are out for me and vandenBerg isn't fit yet.

Heritier is definitely best 22. Sorry.

[stuie 7,374]

On 30/05/2016 at 7:59 PM, Diamond said:

Torn quadriceps. Out for three months.

Roos said today Oliver is in the mix for selection.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by stuie

[Copuchas 763]

20 minutes ago, stuie said:

Roos said today Oliver is in the mix for selection.

 

 

yes, so that leaves us with the question as to whether Diamond had his wires crossed with Vandenberg (flagged as a possible but unconfirmed scenario by a mod) or the more nefarious scenario........ 

[Gator 17,332]

4 hours ago, Copuchas said:

yes, so that leaves us with the question as to whether Diamond had his wires crossed with Vandenberg (flagged as a possible but unconfirmed scenario by a mod) or the more nefarious scenario........ 

This poster (Diamond) has been online and not once clarified their post after repeated requests to do so.

Mr Grapeviney will make redundant.

Edited June 1, 2016 by ProDee

[FireOath 290]

B: Josh Wagner, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta

HB: Tomas Bugg, Lynden Dunn, Colin Garland

C: Billy Stretch, Dom Tyson, Jack Grimes

HF: Cameron Pedersen, Jack Watts, Jeff Garlett

F: Christian Petracca, Jesse Hogan, Ben Kennedy

FOLL: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Bernie Vince

I/C: James Harmes, Jayden Hunt, Clayton Oliver, Jack Trengove

EMG: Chris Dawes, Alex Neal-Bullen, Viv Michie 

 

Alot of changes. But all for the better I think.

 

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Moot point, put all 22 on the ground at once and we will still lose.

 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,503]

A lot of people on here are talking about the Hawthorn team 'on paper'; they are however, playing some pretty putrid football at the moment.  The last quarter against the Lions flattered the scoreline last week and they were luck/fortunate to scrape through for wins against the Adelaide, StKilda and the Bulldogs; they could easily be 4 and 6.  This is not the Hawthorn team we have come to know and fear for the past 4 years.

With that said, they are still a good team, but on their current form we have every chance of knocking them off if we bring our best football. 

[stuie 7,374]

37 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

A lot of people on here are talking about the Hawthorn team 'on paper'; they are however, playing some pretty putrid football at the moment.  The last quarter against the Lions flattered the scoreline last week and they were luck/fortunate to scrape through for wins against the Adelaide, StKilda and the Bulldogs; they could easily be 4 and 6.  This is not the Hawthorn team we have come to know and fear for the past 4 years.

With that said, they are still a good team, but on their current form we have every chance of knocking them off if we bring our best football. 

But with our current team (minus Salem, Viney, Brayshaw, Lumumba, vandenBerg, Pedo/Dawes) what chance do we have of bringing our best football?

 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,503]

31 minutes ago, stuie said:

But with our current team (minus Salem, Viney, Brayshaw, Lumumba, vandenBerg, Pedo/Dawes) what chance do we have of bringing our best football?

 

Exactly... I can only cling to the idea that the team is greater than the sum of its parts.  We have enough talent in there to play some quality football, when we play it right.

A win this weekend would be on par with our effort in Geelong last year, where we fielded a very under-strength team. 

[stuie 7,374]

Oliver available. Can we start banning people that post BS info?

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-06-01/trio-set-to-return-this-weekend

 

[SPC98 36]

Based on the news about Oliver being available then I think we should make just 4 changes.

Trengove for Viney

Dunn for OMac

Dawes for Kent (who I think may have a slight knee injury- based on vision from the weekend and heard he was running laps at training)

Oliver for Newton (could have been ANB, but I want him to play forward)

I think we will play a more defensive style down back, with Hunt to go to Puopolo, Wagner to take Breust, Jetta to Rioli and TMac to take Gunston. Dunn will likely take Sicily or whatever talls play forward.

Not confident at all about this one..

[beelzebub 23,347]

9 minutes ago, SPC98 said:

Based on the news about Oliver being available then I think we should make just 4 changes.

Trengove for Viney

Dunn for OMac

Dawes for Kent (who I think may have a slight knee injury- based on vision from the weekend and heard he was running laps at training)

Oliver for Newton (could have been ANB, but I want him to play forward)

I think we will play a more defensive style down back, with Hunt to go to Puopolo, Wagner to take Breust, Jetta to Rioli and TMac to take Gunston. Dunn will likely take Sicily or whatever talls play forward.

Not confident at all about this one..

not too shabby my fellow demon

[felixdacat 459]

1 hour ago, SPC98 said:

Based on the news about Oliver being available then I think we should make just 4 changes.

Trengove for Viney

Dunn for OMac

Dawes for Kent (who I think may have a slight knee injury- based on vision from the weekend and heard he was running laps at training)

Oliver for Newton (could have been ANB, but I want him to play forward)

I think we will play a more defensive style down back, with Hunt to go to Puopolo, Wagner to take Breust, Jetta to Rioli and TMac to take Gunston. Dunn will likely take Sicily or whatever talls play forward.

Not confident at all about this one..

I like it but I was thinking that you swap Hunt on to Rioli and Jetta on Poppi 

[olisik 4,060]

17 minutes ago, felixdacat said:

I like it but I was thinking that you swap Hunt on to Rioli and Jetta on Poppi 

We don't play man on man. With diamond defence we will end up seeing Jetta on Gunston, TMac on Puop, Omac on Rioli and Hint on Sicily. 

[felixdacat 459]

35 minutes ago, olisik said:

We don't play man on man. With diamond defence we will end up seeing Jetta on Gunston, TMac on Puop, Omac on Rioli and Hint on Sicily. 

Sad but true Damn Diamond!

[junk 342]

J.ROUGHHEAD appeared on the front page of the ESSENDON-Collingwood Herald-Sun, forget changes the motivation the Hawks will get will ber enough for them to kill us. Why didn't our team respond when J.STYNES became ill?

[Damo 3,355]

We need to kick hard and low into the forward 50.

Play Trengove in Kents role.

Forwards try demanding the ball.

Other moves are deckchairs.

[Seraph 1,824]

1 hour ago, ENYAW said:

Why didn't our team respond when J.STYNES became ill?

Because our team was [censored]?

[junk 342]

Almost totally agree with Copuchas. Cannot understand reason for loss,opposition team had bigger bodies. Roos is in his 3rd surely we should be able to fix the problem area and what basis does one come to that conclusion apart from a loss. For anyone to say O'Mac is too skinny at this stage for senior footy is strange,Fletcher from EFC was a champion who looked skinny. Are the following players at Hawthorn considered to have bigger bodies than our guys,BREUST,LANGDON,HARTUNG,SICILY etc.

[In Harmes Way 7,766]

4 hours ago, stuie said:

Oliver available. Can we start banning people that post BS info?

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-06-01/trio-set-to-return-this-weekend

 

Yeah - agree. This report  of a major injury to Clarry "Red Bull" was most alarming. Although I will point out that Misson is equally unreliable and shouldn't be considered a source of truth.

Edited June 1, 2016 by small but forward