1 hour ago, Ted Fidge said:

I think it is possible to be too touchy-feely. We treated Mitch Clark with kid gloves, and it was right at the time, only to be kicked in the nuts by him as he waltzed off to a completely different environment for his health another AFL club.

At the end of the day, these guys are professionals (highly paid, etc), and if it's too much for them, they are free to change professions and become a photographer or whatever floats their boat.

Remember Steve Harmison, the England fast bowler who terrorized us in the 2007 Ashes? Then he came out to Oz and could barely put it on the deck. Due to personal issues going on at the same time. Basically he didn't want to be there.

What use is it putting him, or anyone, on the park if he doesn't want to be there? Doesn't do him or the team any good.

Having said that, all the signs are that Hogan doesn't want to play with us. We've got a Scully/Frawley situation staring us in the face and we can't see for the looking. Trade him now while we can get something back.

We had a similar situation with Scully and the mysterious China trip. When eyebrows were raised by his early return the DL thought and morality police were quick to pounce. Many of the same ones are still around now.  The acceptable explanation for his early return was that his sister was sick and had to rush home. Shame on anyone who questioned this. As it panned out he conveniently also had time to make acquaintance with GWS. As for Hogan, he dad may be ill or not but I have long suspected he has wanted out for a very very long time going back to last year. 

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by america de cali

Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Jones, Viney, Tyson, Vince, Fyfe - I can live with that.

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by Return to Glory

24 minutes ago, america de cali said:

We had a similar situation with Scully and the mysterious China trip. When eyebrows were raised by his early return the DL thought and morality police were quick to pounce. Many of the same ones are still around now.  The acceptable explanation for his early return was that his sister was sick and had to rush home. Shame on anyone who questioned this. As it panned out he conveniently also had time to make acquaintance with GWS. As for Hogan, he dad may be ill or not but I have long suspected he has wanted out for a very very long time going back to last year. 

Scully left for money and maybe (success, stability, professionalism whatever u want to call it). Hogan is family related.

How are they the same situation? They are completely unrelated 

Even if Hogan has made up his mind to leave like you poorly try to point out, unless he says he wants to leave he isnt going nowhere 

End of story

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by Unleash Hell

2 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Scully left for money and maybe (success, stability, professionalism whatever u want to call it). Hogan is family related.

How are they the same situation.

Even if he has made up his mind like tou poorly try to point out, unless he says he wants to leave he isnt going nowhere 

 

To be fair, Scully's was also family related with Phat Phil taking a fat slice of the pie.

2 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

To be fair, Scully's was also family related with Phat Phil taking a fat slice of the pie.

Haha true

But let's be serious

2 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

No one has been able to confirm that his father is gravely ill, and it was only last week that Simon Goodwin effectively told his management to get on with the job of re-signing him with the Demons.

What is it about grossly over-paid AFL footballers and their families and their homesickness?

If you don't want to play with the club that you are with, or you are uncertain about it, then you are pro-actively putting yourself up for a trade, which is exactly what Jesse Hogan is doing right now.

Mid-fielders win games these days, not key forwards. Trade him for Nat Fyfe while we have got the opportunity.

I reckon this is a gross,cold blooded post. My opinion. I am also at a point where i think the Mods should have a serious talk about containment of speculative personal content.I think we are all feeding the chooks and i think most options and opinions are exhausted.

5 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Scully left for money and maybe (success, stability, professionalism whatever u want to call it). Hogan is family related.

How are they the same situation? They are completely unrelated 

Even if Hogan has made up his mind to leave like you poorly try to point out, unless he says he wants to leave he isnt going nowhere 

End of story

Hogan leaving is family related just as Scully leaving China was family related and Scott Thompson leaving was family related.

2 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

Mid-fielders win games these days, not key forwards. Trade him for Nat Fyfe while we have got the opportunity.

You've illustrated precisely why we won't get Fyfe from a Hogan trade, unless he explicitly states he wants to come to us.

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by DominatrixTyson

4 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Hogan leaving is family related just as Scully leaving China was family related and Scott Thompson leaving was family related.

And Jeff Farmer was family related. Maybe all players that leave Melbourne leave due to family reasons. 

 

Im pretty sure Scully got offered a contract that no other club could come close to affording which would  influenced his decision significantly. Which is another arguement for another day on how the afl spoon fed their baby gws with a massive advantage in a huge salary cap 

Every situation is different.  To simply say he's gone and we need to trade him based on those prior situations is stupid and lacks any sensible thought.

On a probability scale he is probably more then likely will leave but it's simply a guess at this stage. I accept opionons but accept my counter offer of wanting to talk with facts.

Until he says he's gone this trade talk is absolute rubbish  and shouldn't and wouldn't be considered by a professional organisation who wants to promote good culture.

Leadership will be important in his decision on and off field at the dees and how we as a club handle this situation.

This will drag on for 12 more months i have no doubt. And he will cost whoever wants him dearly.

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by Unleash Hell

People are making out that this is a recent thing. It's not. We've had contract offers in front of him for over a year and he's refused to consider them. SEVEN MONTHS AGO he told the club he would not consider their offer until after this season. He's had seven months to think about whether he wants to keep playing for Melbourne. It's not unreasonable to want an answer. 

4 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Haha true

But let's be serious

Do we have to be? Ok, we've done this dance twice in recent times and on both occasions we've missed out (the Geelong photographer and part time footballer and Scully). The club wants to build something special and need to know Hogan's intentions beyond next year. Surely it impacts our selection strategy going forward. I don't buy the 'I'm torn' argument put forward by his management and by extension now mistrust the motivations of Hogan (that's just me and gut feel).

I also don't think Hogan will reach the stellar heights many predict. Again, personal opinion.I think he will be a very good player but not necessarily a great one. I know the stats re second year players etc but I also witnessed some on field efforts that don't justify a million dollar contract and holding the club to ransom. If he signs a four year contract I'll reverse everything I've just said. It's Demonland after all.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

On a probability scale he is probably more then likely will leave but it's simply a guess at this stage. I accept opionons but accept my counter offer of wanting to talk with facts.

We don't know any facts except for the one that he hasn't signed.

More than likely he will leave? Then a professional organisation will maximise their position. The longer we leave it, the worse our negotiating position is.

6 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

This will drag on for 12 more months i have no doubt.

That is one other fact we know.

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think the club made a serious mistake publicising the contract discussions at the end of last year. If the negotiations had been conducted behind closed doors the issue of his renewing the contract would only be surfacing this trade period, but putting it out there to the media and subsequently being smacked down as we were was possibly the worst outcome for all parties. It has put Hogan under the microscope at a sensitive time in his life and made the club look weak. 

19 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Hogan leaving is family related just as Scully leaving China was family related and Scott Thompson leaving was family related.

And Brock McLean and Col Sylvia were told to get their mother-f***ing @rses out of the joint. They're all family related.

12 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Do we have to be? Ok, we've done this dance twice in recent times and on both occasions we've missed out (the Geelong photographer and part time footballer and Scully). The club wants to build something special and need to know Hogan's intentions beyond next year. Surely it impacts our selection strategy going forward. I don't buy the 'I'm torn' argument put forward by his management and by extension now mistrust the motivations of Hogan (that's just me and gut feel).

I also don't think Hogan will reach the stellar heights many predict. Again, personal opinion.I think he will be a very good player but not necessarily a great one. I know the stats re second year players etc but I also witnessed some on field efforts that don't justify a million dollar contract and holding the club to ransom. If he signs a four year contract I'll reverse everything I've just said. It's Demonland after all.

 

 

Why panic then october 2017 will get your wish

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by Unleash Hell

4 minutes ago, Goffer said:

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think the club made a serious mistake publicising the contract discussions at the end of last year.

With a player as prominent as Hogan, it would not have made any difference.

5 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

We don't know any facts except for the one that he hasn't signed.

More than likely he will leave? Then a professional organisation will maximise their position. The longer we leave it, the worse our negotiating position is.

That is one other fact we know.

There is no evidence anywhere thst could confirm or deny that statement.

The mfc position is we want to keep him. I dont see how trading him achieves that

34 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

To be fair, Scully's was also family related with Phat Phil taking a fat slice of the pie.

 

3 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

There is no evidence anywhere thst could confirm or deny that statement.

As I said, we only know one fact: he hasn't signed.

3 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

The mfc position is we want to keep him. I dont see how trading him achieves that

Of course we want to keep him. That's why this thread is 116 pages long. But if it's more likely than not that he leaves, it's more likely than not that we will be holding our wangs while we watch him strut his stuff for the Eagles. For pitiful compensation.

Unless we force his hand now one way or another.

33 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Scully left for money and maybe (success, stability, professionalism whatever u want to call it). Hogan is family related.

How are they the same situation? They are completely unrelated 

Even if Hogan has made up his mind to leave like you poorly try to point out, unless he says he wants to leave he isnt going nowhere 

End of story

All the top-end or aspiring top-end players are soldiers of fortune. So was scully, so was Barassi. Like Cameron Bruce and Earl Spaulding, jessie Hogan never learnt to kick properly and Hogan is now like a stranded polar bear, stuck in the northern part of the ground waiting for choice morsels. I am hoping that he would stay but doubtful he would then  commit the hours necessary to learn to split the sticks on a regular basis.

6 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

As I said, we only know one fact: he hasn't signed.

Of course we want to keep him. That's why this thread is 116 pages long. But if it's more likely than not that he leaves, it's more likely than not that we will be holding our wangs while we watch him strut his stuff for the Eagles. For pitiful compensation.

Unless we force his hand now one way or another.

I completely disagree with your last statement.

I've said this earlier but this thread is too long.. only wce or freo finnishing last could affect the compensation.

Plus do you really think the rest of the afl wouldn't stand up to the afl if we got dsrling and a pick for hogan a 22 yo super talented kpp. It would be robbery and completely unfair advantage 

You are entitled to your opinion  but trading hogan now shows we are weak and players forever will be gettable.

 

Edited September 21, 20168 yr by Unleash Hell

2 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

I completely disagree with your last statement.

I've said this earlier but this thread is too long.. only wce or freo finnishing last could affect the compensation.

Plus do you really think the rest of the afl wouldn't stand up to the afl if we got dsrling and a pick for hogan a 22 yo super talented kpp.

You are entitled to your opinion  but trading hogan now shows we are weak and players forever will be gettable.

 

Does it not show the opposite? Either you are with us or you're not.

I think the club is being dictated to.

I think Hoges and his management are running the commentary.

Unfortunately MFC has said all along they were giving Jesse time and space to make up his mind. And so he is. So they are. It would be wrong now for us to change the commentary to anything else. But it stinks that they are being so reluctant to make a decision.

We are stuck. Rooted. 

12 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

With a player as prominent as Hogan, it would not have made any difference.

If he had shelved negotiations behind closed doors it would have been less problematic than the status quo. As it is, when Hogan received leave post the game in Metricon Stadium (with Stretch) to travel interstate and visit his family, the talk in all the WA media was focused on Hogan coming to sign a 10 year contract with the Dockers. We see the same thing now, despite it being off season and his holiday time. Do you really believe this would have attracted the same attention if Hogan hadn't publicly shelved contract talks?