4 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

AND.....when players put the team ahead of the size of individual contracts you can start to build a premiership list eg Geelong and Hawthorn. All players say they want to be involved in that kind of culture but you gotta take a hit to be in. So you cant really have it both ways.  In fact you cant really a premiership list any other way.  So he and Watts either see the possibility here or they don't but if they do they need to demonstrate that.

 We used to be a club that had to offer massive overs to get players even slightly  interested in coming to us. Managers would check in with us to get the best offer and go back to the clubs that they knew their players wanted to go to and bargain. We CANT be that kind of a club if we're serious. 

Who said he wants massive overs? I don't know what he wants, do you or any other supporter?  

Putting the team ahead of himself might mean taking less to stay than he has been offered to leave.

T Mc really is in a position to get overs from us, given our backline deficiencies. Is his manager just playing the game, knowing his value to the Dees. FWIW I would be happy to pay over market value to retain him at the club, whatever that might be.

18 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

T Mc really is in a position to get overs from us, given our backline deficiencies. Is his manager just playing the game, knowing his value to the Dees. FWIW I would be happy to pay over market value to retain him at the club, whatever that might be.

I disagree. Particularly if we want to try and entice Hurley, which will cost money.

31 minutes ago, AdamPleb said:

I disagree. Particularly if we want to try and entice Hurley, which will cost money.

I think in hindsight you may be right AF. We need as much cash in the kitty for Hurley as we can manage. It would be very disappointing to lose T Mc though,  we really need both players. Unless of course O Mc and Frosty come on quicker than expected. The other concern I have is, should T Mc leave, does this also give O Mc reason to leave? I think O Mc will become a solid backman with time.

Edited June 18, 20169 yr by Boots and all

14 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

I think in hindsight you may be right AF. We need as much cash in the kitty for Hurley as we can manage. It would be very disappointing to lose T Mc though,  we really need both players. Unless of course O Mc and Frosty come on quicker than expected. The other concern I have is, should T Mc leave, does this also give O Mc reason to leave? I think O Mc will become a solid backman with time.

I think we want to retain McDonald and get Hurley, but we won't sell the farm for McDonald. We pay his worth and nothing more. I just wonder whether the FD doesn't rate him quite as highly as some on Demonland do. 

58 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Who said he wants massive overs? I don't know what he wants, do you or any other supporter?  

Putting the team ahead of himself might mean taking less to stay than he has been offered to leave.

Its true we don't know the numbers.. so its all conjecture. And managers aren't just trying to get the best for their client they're making a buck themselves which complicates matters. My opinion is that we need TMc. With or without  landing Hurley. Also, I think plenty of players take less to stay than they have been offered to leave...and right about now we need players to step up in this way for us. 

3 minutes ago, AdamPleb said:

I think we want to retain McDonald and get Hurley, but we won't sell the farm for McDonald. We pay his worth and nothing more. I just wonder whether the FD doesn't rate him quite as highly as some on Demonland do. 

I do admit his deficiencies are frustrating to say the least (especially decision making and disposal) and the FD are probably left pulling their hair out in frustration at times. I also don't see any significant improvement in these deficiencies. I do think that his abilities in both body on body marking contests and intercept marking are both sensational. The key to our backline in the future will be ensuring our flankers and pockets provide him with good options...he just needs to learn to take them.

9 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

I do admit his deficiencies are frustrating to say the least (especially decision making and disposal) and the FD are probably left pulling their hair out in frustration at times. I also don't see any significant improvement in these deficiencies. I do think that his abilities in both body on body marking contests and intercept marking are both sensational. The key to our backline in the future will be ensuring our flankers and pockets provide him with good options...he just needs to learn to take them.

Yeah, that's been my concern about McDonald across 2015 and so far in 2016. He hasn't improved his deficiencies. The only thing that saves him this year is that he's playing in a completely different defensive set up, so he's back to learning a little bit, but he certainly didn't improve on these weaknesses last year.

Good key backs are very rare in the AFL, they will not let him go.  People saying they should let him walk are kidding themselves.  Who's the replacement???

17 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Good key backs are very rare in the AFL, they will not let him go.  People saying they should let him walk are kidding themselves.  Who's the replacement???

Person. I think Picket is the only one saying they should let him walk.

16 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Good key backs are very rare in the AFL, they will not let him go.  People saying they should let him walk are kidding themselves.  Who's the replacement???

Exactly, they are as scarce as hens teeth. We would almost certainly have to trade for another. Unless, as I mentioned in a previous post, O Mc and/or Frost come on very quickly.

Here are some of the comments from this thread ... all of the below comments came from different posters (and no double ups)   All the comments could be interpreted as "letting him walk" (depending on which side of the argument one sits on)

 

" Doesn't bother me either way." (whether he re-signs or not)

"Would love to sign Cale Hooker as a free agent then trade McDonald out."

" Selfish sod!  If he doesn't want to be part of what the club is building and just looking out for himself then just go,Tom!!"

" I'm sorry, but if a player with the weaknesses of Tom McDonald tried to hold us over a barrel, i know where i'd tell him to go."

" Seems like the Howe situation all over again"

" If he left I'd lose no sleep."

" He may want to join creepy at Hawthorn."

" This guy is not worth 400k a year, and if he doesn't sign, he has to be traded - a huge win for the club."

" If Tom Mcd doesn't want to buy into that team culture, then he can and should go."

" After today I really don't care if he doesn't sign."

 

Furthermore, he's played well in the last 4 games and hasn't made any glaring errors ... so much so that both coaches gave him votes in the game against the Pies.  He's not an A grade defender but is that a crime? He may well reach the heights of A grade status but I have no expectation that he will do so. 

We all see the same footballer but 'expectations' often govern where we sit on a player.   I'm constantly amazed and astonished at the unrealistic expectations that people have with footballers - primarily, they all get to be as good as they can be. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Macca said:

Here are some of the comments from this thread ... all of the below comments came from different posters (and no double ups)   All the comments could be interpreted as "letting him walk" (depending on which side of the argument one sits on)

 

" Doesn't bother me either way." (whether he re-signs or not)

"Would love to sign Cale Hooker as a free agent then trade McDonald out."

" Selfish sod!  If he doesn't want to be part of what the club is building and just looking out for himself then just go,Tom!!"

" I'm sorry, but if a player with the weaknesses of Tom McDonald tried to hold us over a barrel, i know where i'd tell him to go."

" Seems like the Howe situation all over again"

" If he left I'd lose no sleep."

" He may want to join creepy at Hawthorn."

" This guy is not worth 400k a year, and if he doesn't sign, he has to be traded - a huge win for the club."

" If Tom Mcd doesn't want to buy into that team culture, then he can and should go."

" After today I really don't care if he doesn't sign."

 

Furthermore, he's played well in the last 4 games and hasn't made any glaring errors ... so much so that both coaches gave him votes in the game against the Pies.  He's not an A grade defender but is that a crime? He may well reach the heights of A grade status but I have no expectation that he will do so. 

We all see the same footballer but 'expectations' often govern where we sit on a player.   I'm constantly amazed and astonished at the unrealistic expectations that people have with footballers - primarily, they all get to be as good as they can be. 

 

 

You know, I'm allowed to shudder every time the ball is in his hands.  I'll never warm to him as a player. 

Equally, it doesn't mean I don't recognise his value. 

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

This is a bloke's career and he and his Manager are entitled to take their time and get the best outcome, without any concern to supporters impatience.  

I find it funny that supporters think they know what salaries players should get and get affronted when players want to get what they think they are worth in the marketplace. 

FWIW i think both Macs will be with us for some time yet. 

Red.. I didn't suppose I knew any salary.

My point was it was suggested that it might be the opening offer.  It may not be. For discussion the actual number is irrelevant as that's the club's and players business currently. How it's progressing is totally up for talking about.

I think it's funny some don't think players stuff around with this. 

FWIW I wouldn't lose sleep if he went.

 

Edited June 18, 20169 yr by beelzebub

10 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You know, I'm allowed to shudder every time the ball is in his hands.  I'll never warm to him as a player. 

Equally, it doesn't mean I don't recognise his value. 

 

He is definitely worth keeping despite his faults.  I've previously offered up an opinion on how we can minimise his faults (like the recipient player calling for the ball being on the move and not standing still)  That seems to be happening more in the last month so the FD look to be getting it as well - if our players are sprinting to position, then there will be less turnovers.  The whole list is still learning how to play football like a top side can. 

There are those who want T-Mac to be a top grade player based on what they saw in the first half of last year and it seems that if they don't get that 'top player', they might prefer to discard.  I prefer to judge a player on what he is rather than what I want that player to be.  Primarily, they're all trying their best. 

Also, we're almost certainly going to need to re-sign T-Mac before we can entertain the thought of bringing in another KPD.  It won't be happening the other way around.  

Anyway, his last month has been good and only those with a blinkered and one-sided view would not recognise that.

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Macca said:

 

He is definitely worth keeping despite his faults.  I've previously offered up an opinion on how we can minimise his faults (like the recipient player calling for the ball being on the move and not standing still)  That seems to be happening more in the last month so the FD look to be getting it as well - if our players are sprinting to position, then there will be less turnovers.  The whole list is still learning how to play football like a top side can. 

There are those who want T-Mac to be a top grade player based on what they saw in the first half of last year and it seems that if they don't get that 'top player', they might prefer to discard.  I prefer to judge a player on what he is rather than what I want that player to be.  Primarily, they're all trying their best. 

Also, we're almost certainly going to need to re-sign T-Mac before we can entertain the thought of bringing in another KPD.  It won't be happening the other way around.  

Anyway, his last month has been good and only those with a blinkered and one-sided view would not recognise that.

 

 

 

 

He definitely needs to be retained.  Good coaching/development will improve him. 

Hate the ball in his hands. 

Just now, ProDee said:

He definitely needs to be retained.  Good coaching/development will improve him. 

Hate the ball in his hands. 

There is nothing more certain than seeing Tom, at least once a game, gather the ball and turn his attention to kicking a 30-40m pass to the middle of the ground.... and turning the ball over.  Happens without fail.

4 hours ago, AdamPleb said:

I disagree. Particularly if we want to try and entice Hurley, which will cost money.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

We need our half backs running off T-Mac and that's half the problem - he creates a good amount of space for himself and we don't have enough players buzzing around his feet when he gets the ball (and he gets it a lot)  Getting Salem & Melksham back will help and Bernie is another who can work in tandem with Tommy.  Frost is another who can use his natural pace to create an option.

The positives are there - the backmen just need more game time together and continuity. 

 

Edited June 18, 20169 yr by Macca

On 26 May 2016 at 1:21 PM, iv'a worn smith said:

 

Very important signing going forward....

5 hours ago, Boots and all said:

T Mc really is in a position to get overs from us, given our backline deficiencies. Is his manager just playing the game, knowing his value to the Dees. FWIW I would be happy to pay over market value to retain him at the club, whatever that might be.

You are kidding !! Overs for a bloke that

a Fails in one on one contests?

b Has "Iffy" Disposal?

c Is clearly, Clearly putting self interest above what the club has offered!

Many players take a cut to ensure success! Geelong, Hawthorn have done it for years!

And what have they achieved?? Sustained success! PREMIERSHIPS!

Only a team determined to reach the top in whatever ot takes will succeed!

Not this bloke! Wants More and this is tantamount to his very limited output this year!

Manager and player are "Dreaming"

My message to the club would be,

Pay Market rates for what he is worth and not another cent more! 

If he wants more he walks! In fact say to him this offer is only available till the end of June!

Simple as that!

Edited June 18, 20169 yr by picket fence

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You are kidding !! Overs for a bloke that

a Fails in one on one contests?

b Has "Iffy" Disposal?

c Is clearly, Clearly putting self interest above what the club has offered!

Many players take a cut to ensure success! Geelong, Hawthorn have done it for years!

And what have they achieved?? Sustained success! PREMIERSHIPS!

Only a team determined to reach the top in whatever ot takes will succeed!

Not this bloke! Wants More and this is tantamount to his very limited output this year!

Manager and player are "Dreaming"

My message to the club would be,

Pay Market rates for what he is worth and not another cent more! 

If he wants more he walks!

Simple as that!

But where does that leave us defensively next season, especially if we miss out on Hurley.

4 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You are kidding !! Overs for a bloke that

a Fails in one on one contests?

b Has "Iffy" Disposal?

c Is clearly, Clearly putting self interest above what the club has offered!

Many players take a cut to ensure success! Geelong, Hawthorn have done it for years!

And what have they achieved?? Sustained success! PREMIERSHIPS!

Only a team determined to reach the top in whatever ot takes will succeed!

Not this bloke! Wants More and this is tantamount to his very limited output this year!

Manager and player are "Dreaming"

My message to the club would be,

Pay Market rates for what he is worth and not another cent more! 

If he wants more he walks! In fact say to him this offer is only available till the end of June!

Simple as that!

So tell us, how much was the offer for McDonald ?

6 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You are kidding !! Overs for a bloke that

a Fails in one on one contests?

b Has "Iffy" Disposal?

c Is clearly, Clearly putting self interest above what the club has offered!

Many players take a cut to ensure success! Geelong, Hawthorn have done it for years!

And what have they achieved?? Sustained success! PREMIERSHIPS!

Only a team determined to reach the top in whatever ot takes will succeed!

Not this bloke! Wants More and this is tantamount to his very limited output this year!

Manager and player are "Dreaming"

My message to the club would be,

Pay Market rates for what he is worth and not another cent more! 

If he wants more he walks! In fact say to him this offer is only available till the end of June!

Simple as that!

Need him, PF....backline will really leak without him.

 

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Need him, PF....backline will really leak without him.

 

Leak....the floodgates will open. We already get caned by big KPF's. . The whole idea of him leaving just freaks me out.