The State of the AFL

[Sir Why You Little 37,133]

7 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Banning betting on NAB matches is not going to stop match fixing.  That is a much bigger issue.  Frankly I'd like to ban betting in any form but that is an invasion of rights.

I was responding to WYL's assertion that betting on NAB matches was wrong.  It's no more "wrong" than betting on anything.  And where there is betting match fixing is an issue and has been forever.

Betting is wrong when the result doesn't matter

[sue 9,145]

BB, just because someone thinks something is wrong does not mean that they also think it should be banned.  

[Slartibartfast 17,631]

15 hours ago, Chris said:

The whole win games and you get a good fixture and get on the telly is a fallacy. 

I've just looked up our fixture in 2007 where in 2006 we were the best performing Victorian side.

We had 4 Friday night games and the Queen's Birthday game as well as a stand alone Easter Monday game against Hawthorn.

Seems pretty good to me.

[monoccular 17,574]

58 minutes ago, rjay said:

I guess if anyone is stupid enough to bet on a practice match it's up to them 'Bob'.

...but I don't think it's as simple as telling people what they should and shouldn't do. Gambling in sport is out of control and along with drugs is a major issue. I see nothing wrong with trying to regulate it so that problems like match fixing or spot bet fixing don't be come an issue in our game.

I don't know how we will do it but I think we might be pushing against a very strong tide, we seem to be in bed with the enemy on this one.

So long as our games custodians, the AFL, are as addicted to the gambling dollar as they are currently, there will be huge incentives for match fixing, or at very best tweaking on whatever those live betting things are - next goal, next kick etc etc.. And that in turn IMO diminishes the joy of the game and any confidence in its integrity. 

I have no idea whether the egg can be unscrambled, but all these questions as to 'did the best team win', together with the AFL administrations' bending over backwards to appease and aid the team that has almost single handedly brought our game into serious international disrepute, have seriously soured my enjoyment of the game.   And the ever pervasive gambling advertisements on radio, TV, and at the game just make me feel ill.  

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I guess if anyone is stupid enough to bet on a practice match it's up to them 'Bob'.

...but I don't think it's as simple as telling people what they should and shouldn't do. Gambling in sport is out of control and along with drugs is a major issue. I see nothing wrong with trying to regulate it so that problems like match fixing or spot bet fixing don't be come an issue in our game.

I don't know how we will do it but I think we might be pushing against a very strong tide, we seem to be in bed with the enemy on this one.

Who are you referring to as "the enemy"?

[rjay 25,093]

8 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Who are you referring to as "the enemy"?

The gambling industry...

[Bossdog 2,002]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Match Fixing Bob

With all due respect "Sir"    If there was no legal betting on these matches, it would just force the betting underground and make it more vunerable to so called match fixing.

If it's legal authorities can vet betting trends and pick out abnormalities.

I have never punted and don't wish to start so I don't care one way or another.    If you are stupid enough to throw your hard earned away so be it    

[sue 9,145]

9 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

With all due respect "Sir"    If there was no legal betting on these matches, it would just force the betting underground and make it more vunerable to so called match fixing.

If it's legal authorities can vet betting trends and pick out abnormalities.

I have never punted and don't wish to start so I don't care one way or another.    If you are stupid enough to throw your hard earned away so be it    

Not so sure that would be true.  While local 'underground' betting can be a corruption problem it is a least going to be on a small scale.  Once there is on-line betting, the world's the fixer's oyster.  When people start betting $1M on a NAB match, we'll know something is wrong.  Trouble is we won't know about those bets.

[Biffen 12,947]

There is a very good player at Norf who placed bets on footy at a pub in Pascoe Vale.

he wears a cap and thus far has gotten away with it. 

I imagine he has stopped now but if I was the informant type I could have ruined their 2014/2015.

 

[daisycutter 29,741]

1 minute ago, Biffen said:

There is a very good player at Norf who placed bets on footy at a pub in Pascoe Vale.

he wears a cap and thus far has gotten away with it. 

I imagine he has stopped now but if I was the informant type I could have ruined their 2014/2015.

 

he got away with wearing a cap, biffo? lucky guy

[Bossdog 2,002]

6 minutes ago, sue said:

Not so sure that would be true.  While local 'underground' betting can be a corruption problem it is a least going to be on a small scale.  Once there is on-line betting, the world's the fixer's oyster.  When people start betting $1M on a NAB match, we'll know something is wrong.  Trouble is we won't know about those bets.

I don't know much about the betting scene Sue........If you tell people they can't do something legally they will do it illegally with no restraints.

During prohibition in the USA there was more grog sold on the black market and at speakeaseys than there was when it was legal.   More corruption backhanders involving all government officials, police etc.   Once the law was repealed the government could somewhat restore law and order and taxes they were missing out on.

[old dee 23,872]

10 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

I don't know much about the betting scene Sue........If you tell people they can't do something legally they will do it illegally with no restraints.

During prohibition in the USA there was more grog sold on the black market and at speakeaseys than there was when it was legal.   More corruption backhanders involving all government officials, police etc.   Once the law was repealed the government could somewhat restore law and order and taxes they were missing out on.

Just a bit of history here Bossdog the Prohibition in the USA is largely responsible for creating organised crime.

[Sir Why You Little 37,133]

35 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

With all due respect "Sir"    If there was no legal betting on these matches, it would just force the betting underground and make it more vunerable to so called match fixing.

If it's legal authorities can vet betting trends and pick out abnormalities.

I have never punted and don't wish to start so I don't care one way or another.    If you are stupid enough to throw your hard earned away so be it    

I understand all that Boss but i don't want to he bombarded with betting ads for a bunch of bloody practice games. 

 

p.s. I don't bet either. 

Would love to see Crown Casino crumble and fall into the Yarra. 

The CBD at night was quite safe to walk until that monstrosity opened.....

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

34 minutes ago, sue said:

Not so sure that would be true.  While local 'underground' betting can be a corruption problem it is a least going to be on a small scale.  Once there is on-line betting, the world's the fixer's oyster.  When people start betting $1M on a NAB match, we'll know something is wrong.  Trouble is we won't know about those bets.

The whole point of having legal and regulated betting markets is to allow an exchange of information between the sports and the betting operators. The way it works is that the sports give the betting companies permission to bet on their product in return for (1) information about suspicious betting transactions - such as $1M on a NAB match and (2) money, which the sports use to fund the costs of their own integrity programs.

If betting is illegal or not regulated, the betting companies do not provide the sports with either information or money. And that's a recipe for corruption.

Also, online betting is better for controlling corruption and match fixing as it leaves an audit trail not available with cash betting.

[Biffen 12,947]

50 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

he got away with wearing a cap, biffo? lucky guy

Beige slacks too. Criminal.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

55 minutes ago, Biffen said:

There is a very good player at Norf who placed bets on footy at a pub in Pascoe Vale.

he wears a cap and thus far has gotten away with it. 

I imagine he has stopped now but if I was the informant type I could have ruined their 2014/2015.

 

It's not too late to ruin their 2016.

[Biffen 12,947]

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

It's not too late to ruin their 2016.

 

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

It's not too late to ruin their 2016.

On field or off it. They are relying on 4 guys over 33, a useless diving fraud and a tired shihtslbling coach.would hate them to lose their best player too.

[daisycutter 29,741]

59 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

I don't know much about the betting scene Sue........If you tell people they can't do something legally they will do it illegally with no restraints.

During prohibition in the USA there was more grog sold on the black market and at speakeaseys than there was when it was legal.   More corruption backhanders involving all government officials, police etc.   Once the law was repealed the government could somewhat restore law and order and taxes they were missing out on.

bd, i don't think us prohibition is a good comparison though lots of people always drag it out when some sort of prohibition is raised. there are plenty of examples of countries where alcohol prohibition has actually been somewhat successful. there were also many special reasons why it was a disaster in the us, plus the us prohibition was a total prohibition, whereas no-one here i think is talking about a total gambling prohibition.

[daisycutter 29,741]

41 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

The whole point of having legal and regulated betting markets is to allow an exchange of information between the sports and the betting operators. The way it works is that the sports give the betting companies permission to bet on their product in return for (1) information about suspicious betting transactions - such as $1M on a NAB match and (2) money, which the sports use to fund the costs of their own integrity programs.

If betting is illegal or not regulated, the betting companies do not provide the sports with either information or money. And that's a recipe for corruption.

Also, online betting is better for controlling corruption and match fixing as it leaves an audit trail not available with cash betting.

not so. only true if betting org co-operates with regulator, which is not the case with the current large overseas online betting sites

[CBDees 3,167]

59 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I understand all that Boss but i don't want to he bombarded with betting ads for a bunch of bloody practice games. 

 

p.s. I don't bet either. 

Would love to see Crown Casino crumble and fall into the Yarra. 

The CBD at night was quite safe to walk until that monstrosity opened.....

Let's bulldoze Southbank and Crown and rebuild the Allen's Sweets factory and Morley Ford. More industry on the Yarra banks, that's what we need for the World's most liveable city!

[sue 9,145]

1 hour ago, Bossdog said:

I don't know much about the betting scene Sue........If you tell people they can't do something legally they will do it illegally with no restraints.

During prohibition in the USA there was more grog sold on the black market and at speakeaseys than there was when it was legal.   More corruption backhanders involving all government officials, police etc.   Once the law was repealed the government could somewhat restore law and order and taxes they were missing out on.

I wasn't arguing for banning anything.  I was simply saying a bit of local corruption is no big deal compared to what the introduction of on-line betting will  do and has done because of the scale it can bring.  If you were a crook/terrorist/whatever, think how keen you'd be to launder some money on a curling match in the Shetlands via your friendly on-line gambling site based in Hong Kong.

[old dee 23,872]

2 minutes ago, sue said:

I wasn't arguing for banning anything.  I was simply saying a bit of local corruption is no big deal compared to what the introduction of on-line betting will  do and has done because of the scale it can bring.  If you were a crook/terrorist/whatever, think how keen you'd be to launder some money on a curling match in the Shetlands via your friendly on-line gambling site based in Hong Kong.

Or the Caymans

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

not so. only true if betting org co-operates with regulator, which is not the case with the current large overseas online betting sites

Agreed. The overseas online betting sites can exchange info and pay the sports, but are not required to. However, it is their own interests to do so. They're the ones who lose money if there's a scam or a fixed match.

[Bossdog 2,002]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Just a bit of history here Bossdog the Prohibition in the USA is largely responsible for creating organised crime.

I agree OD     They just moved to Prostitution, gambling and drugs 

[Bossdog 2,002]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

bd, i don't think us prohibition is a good comparison though lots of people always drag it out when some sort of prohibition is raised. there are plenty of examples of countries where alcohol prohibition has actually been somewhat successful. there were also many special reasons why it was a disaster in the us, plus the us prohibition was a total prohibition, whereas no-one here i think is talking about a total gambling prohibition.

Understand that dc..... was just saying that people will do it wether it is legal or not......If it's not, there is no control at all.