On 09/02/2016 at 23:41, DemonFrog said:

They should be banned as well.

We should never support Drug Cheats.

If the mix up hadn't occurred then I would agree whole heatedly. With the mix up though there is a realistic chance of confusion. 

  On 09/02/2016 at 23:44, Chris said:

If the mix up hadn't occurred then I would agree whole heatedly. With the mix up though there is a realistic chance of confusion. 

If I remember correctly wrt to Melbourne only a topical cream with AOD was ever mentioned.   This actually has some approval under FDA . Slightly different beast to the AOD that was injected at EFC...just saying

  On 09/02/2016 at 23:46, beelzebub said:

If I remember correctly wrt to Melbourne only a topical cream with AOD was ever mentioned.   This actually has some approval under FDA . Slightly different beast to the AOD that was injected at EFC...just saying

I think you are correct, there were also texts about various injection to, including thymomodulin, although thankfully it was that and not thymosin mentioned. 

The players sailed far too close to the wind and are lucky not be on the sidelines with the bomber boys at the minute. A matter of another month or so of the program and I think they would be. 

Oh we zigged when we should have zigged...for sure

  On 09/02/2016 at 22:43, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Is that right? I thought he confessed to AD-9604, which was subsequently found not to be illegal, but was suspended for TB-4.

i don't think aod was "found to be not illegal". iirc there was a problem with some ambiguous statements made by someone at asada which created a technical problem.

We also had, you know, records.

  On 10/02/2016 at 00:03, biggestred said:

We also had, you know, records.

They do come in handy at times!

The hubris out at WIndy Hill/Tullamarine is unbelievable. They really do believe their [censored] doesn't stink.

  On 10/02/2016 at 00:02, daisycutter said:

i don't think aod was "found to be not illegal". iirc there was a problem with some ambiguous statements made by someone at asada which created a technical problem.

I think the story with AOD was ASADA would face some difficulty proving source.

With Tb4 ASADA  had a watertight (proven via CAS) source and chain of custody from China all the way to Jobe's ass.

 

here is how the rage reported that asada wouldn't be pursuing essendope on aod charges

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asadas-delay-in-taking-aod9604-off-the-table-disappoints-players-20140618-zsdqk.html

  On 10/02/2016 at 02:00, daisycutter said:

here is how the rage reported that asada wouldn't be pursuing essendope on aod charges

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asadas-delay-in-taking-aod9604-off-the-table-disappoints-players-20140618-zsdqk.html

From THE AGE

McDevitt did not clarify at the weekend whether Essendon had been given wrong information on the status of AOD-9604 and stressed the long-term effects of the drug were unclear, saying its use at the club had been ''grossly irresponsible''.

'The advice I’ve had is that we cannot take the position that prior to April, 2013, that athletes and support personnel could have known AOD-9604 was, in fact, a prohibited substance,'' he said on ABC radio. ''What it comes down to is if WADA publicly stated for the first time on the 22nd of April, 2013,that it was a prohibited substance in sport, it would seem that if you pursued an anti-doping rule violation that related to the substance being administered prior to that date, then not only would it - in my eyes - be unsuccessful, it would be unfair."The reality is that this ... is actually something that’s got huge health effects potentially on humans. It’s just grossly irresponsible in terms of the player welfare.''

I think WADA would take issue with Benny's understanding (as reported by the rage) of the SO category . . 

SO. Non Approved substances . . ."Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times."

By McDevitt's logic all banned substances must be listed by name in WADA code and if not listed then they (for prosecution purposes) don't exist! . . This thinking means SO category instead of being the cornerstone of the battle against new/designer peds would be completely neutered.

Maybe he was just playing 'good-cop'?

Have never heard of this bloke writing a column in the Age before but here is the link to Leaping Larry's take on the whole affair. 

"The employment of tools is one of the things that separate humans from animals. Another is awards shows. However, use of tools is more in our favour.
In practical applications, it's not just having tools that is important. It's using the right ones.
Colonel Sherman T. Potter (vale Harry Morgan) encapsulated this sentiment with crystalline clarity when, on a MASH episode, he thundered down the phone line to an errant supply quartermaster: "We keep ordering rectal thermometers and you keep sending us spark plugs. Both useful items, but hardly interchangeable!"
Take the World Anti-Doping Authority. Theoretically WADA is the authority regarding the use of illegal substances in all world sport. Just ask them.
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However, the majority of WADA's experience is based in individual sports, such as cycling, track and field, swimming and weightlifting.
In such contexts, WADA operates on the assumption that if a substance is proven present, even if in a "cold remedy taken in ignorance", the individual is guilty. Ignorance is considered no excuse.
An area WADA doesn't know so thoroughly – and seemingly was less than fanatical about correcting the omission – is the traditional environment within an Australian sporting club.
A situation in which when you're told something is good for the team, it's the overwhelming expectation of both club and its young players that you do that very thing. And if you are told supplements being administered are not illegal, you'd very likely believe that too.
Without considering that context, it's arguably impossible to understand the Essendon player mindset. Not that this slowed anybody down.
Thirty-four players were convicted as drug cheats and lost a year off their careers. Do we know that any of them tested positive? No. Do we know that they were culpably negligent in not avoiding that possibility?
WADA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport uttered a unilateral "yes".
But a scant few of us might have lingering suspicions that the WADA/CAS combo were the proverbial spark plugs in this scenario.
For the Essendon supplements job, maybe they were simply the wrong tools.
Send feedback to leapso@hotmail.com

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/essendon-bombers/wada-square-peg-inserted-in-questionable-hole-20160113-gm5j5y#ixzz3zjVeRLou
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

Seems everything in AFL land is as it should be and the rest of the world need to change. Sounds about right.

Really don't know how tripe like this actually gets published!

 

  Quote

An area WADA doesn't know so thoroughly – and seemingly was less than fanatical about correcting the omission – is the traditional environment within an Australian sporting club.
A situation in which when you're told something is good for the team, it's the overwhelming expectation of both club and its young players that you do that very thing. And if you are told supplements being administered are not illegal, you'd very likely believe that too.

What a load of tripe.  Would he accept these excuses for the Russian water polo team.  They have no team spirit. No true Aussie team spirit I guess.  And as for the players naively believing it was legal, why did they not report these legal injections?

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:55, sue said:

 

What a load of tripe.  Would he accept these excuses for the Russian water polo team.  They have no team spirit. No true Aussie team spirit I guess.  And as for the players naively believing it was legal, why did they not report these legal injections?

That for me is the cruncher, if the players thought everything was fine why not report.

I

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:55, sue said:

 

What a load of tripe.  Would he accept these excuses for the Russian water polo team.  They have no team spirit. No true Aussie team spirit I guess.  And as for the players naively believing it was legal, why did they not report these legal injections?

Not to mention that attitude goes against the players explicit training not to put their trust in anyone but ASADA. 

  On 10/02/2016 at 03:57, old dee said:

That for me is the cruncher, if the players thought everything was fine why not report.

I

Well the weak excuse offered is that they thought if they told ASADA this would be giving away competitive advantage  because ASADA would then blab the secret formula to other clubs.   I guess that is just possible (ie. .00001%)

  On 10/02/2016 at 04:00, sue said:

Well the weak excuse offered is that they thought if they told ASADA this would be giving away competitive advantage  that ASADA would then blab the secret formula to other clubs.   I guess that is just possible (ie. .00001%)

Clearly the worst excuse since the dog ate my homework.

  On 10/02/2016 at 04:01, old dee said:

Clearly the worst excuse since the dog ate my homework.

No, knowing my dog's love of chewing paper,  the dog excuse if far more likely.

Clearly the players trusted Dank to not blab to another club more than they trusted ASADA. Now surely Dank wasn't peddling his wares around other clubs... oh wait....

If the Swiss Court upholds the decision have they got the power to increase the length of the ban?????

 

  On 10/02/2016 at 00:03, biggestred said:

We also had, you know, records.

and the Drug Lords have shredders.

Swiss watches gained their Rep for quality of design and meticulous execution in manufacturing. Every effort was/is made to eliminate flaws.

Cue: Enter Essendon bozos and legal clowns upon the doorstep of Swiss judiciary.

Yeah I can't see them getting very far. The weakness of their non understanding will be exposed in about 5 secs flat !!!

Put some more popcorn on the barbie, Hoges ... http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/former-essendon-rookie-hal-hunter-to-sue-club-over-supplements-program-20160210-gmqeea.html

  On 10/02/2016 at 05:06, Red and Bluebeard said:

Put some more popcorn on the barbie, Hoges ... http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/former-essendon-rookie-hal-hunter-to-sue-club-over-supplements-program-20160210-gmqeea.html

And the queue starts here !!

What relevance does this have to the story, sounds like they are trying to paint him in a certain light... Don't recall ever hearing what Hird wore to any hearings he was at?

 

"During the hearing the heavily bearded Mr Hunter - whose Facebook page says is now a "junior tattooer at Vintique Tattoos, Mordialloc" - sat behind his lawyer with his parents, dressed in an expensive-looking suit and tie."

  On 10/02/2016 at 05:32, Cards13 said:

What relevance does this have to the story, sounds like they are trying to paint him in a certain light... Don't recall ever hearing what Hird wore to any hearings he was at?

 

"During the hearing the heavily bearded Mr Hunter - whose Facebook page says is now a "junior tattooer at Vintique Tattoos, Mordialloc" - sat behind his lawyer with his parents, dressed in an expensive-looking suit and tie."

And the journalist sat in the stalls looking disheveled and possibly drunk wearing Target trackie dacks and thongs. Who cares what he wore to court? Lazy journalist, probably paid by the word.