I know her well. She goes every week, loves the club and although I haven't talked to her about the incident, she'd be the last person who'd make something like that up.

Just because you don't know her or it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it's crap.

You're the first person in this thread to actually say they know her.

To give her some MFC context, John Rothfield's daughter (Doctor Turf). She wouldn't mind me saying that.

See to me, that makes it even more unbelievable... Why would PJ tell the daughter of a media personality secrets about our list management before the end of the season? Doesn't add up.

See to me, that makes it even more unbelievable... Why would PJ tell the daughter of a media personality secrets about our list management before the end of the season? Doesn't add up.

once a decision is made & agreed on, why would you keep it secret in the season ending? different if in mid season, & concerned about trade value; but maybe not so if a deals done?

just a thought.

This thread is better than reading a mystery novel.

See to me, that makes it even more unbelievable... Why would PJ tell the daughter of a media personality secrets about our list management before the end of the season? Doesn't add up.

might want to get a better handle on the inner sanctum of the mfc...just saying

why, "make a man of him" has been used since the first I can remember. you see sue, I do think we are different, men & women. built differently, outwardly, inwardly, & in our brain mapping.

you seem to have a superior attitude to see your way is right, & the other at your discretion is inferior, as you would like to believe, that my way is the wrong way, according to your seemingly limited view.

only looking at how you perceive the words, maybe from your women's magazines attitudes, writings ??? that's right, "mere males" and all that, & all those cheating men are A**s-holes, not what about those cheating women are ??? no mention of them, by the women.

all men are to be feared, & certainly not trusted, & if single, looked on suspiciously, & with some scorn.

women like to take the high ground, mostly,,,, & take the victim position, & claim the right of any conflict, but often its them making the fight, & being the aggressor in many different methods, not just a physical hit.

although they do like to be able to physically hit out, but not be hit back ???

I've always believed it takes 2 to have an argument, & both are equally responsible for the outcome.

but men are disposable souls aren't they send them off to war to kill or be killed... but not so much the women... why is that. maybe women can end wars, by taking the front line themselves.

...... that would certainly cause wars to end, very quickly.

I was going to be glib dee - luded and suggest you stop barracking for Melbourne for a few years.....but I won't. I do think, however, that you need to connect with your local gp in the first instance with a view to finding someone to chat to. Things can get the better of us all at times and it would probably be good to have a strategy and supports.

See to me, that makes it even more unbelievable... Why would PJ tell the daughter of a media personality secrets about our list management before the end of the season? Doesn't add up.

Not the daughter stuie... possibly the Dr. though. Or someone close to him who is still involved at some official level. Maybe his bro Mark, who as you probably know already, was on the board at one point. Helped get the merger up and seem to recall he and turfy also backed the Szondy ticket that overthrew Diamond Joe.

Not saying there's any truth to the FB stuff though. Possibly a red herring but also wouldn't surprise me if a trade was on the table or being mooted.

I'm healthy, but I've learn't to look at the world in a different way, than the western nuclear family model, that's currently readily accepted.

I have thought thru many angles of life, & peoples lifestyles, over the decades, & can see things laterally from within the current model & from the outside looking in. I have questioned, torn down & put back up, most of our values over this time. so i look at things from many angles & see lots of scenarios for issues, which can make things more complicated..

....... and sometimes I wonder if I've forgotten where I started back at 21 yrs of age ; terrified to open up, & speak my mind.

sometimes I truly think many cannot imagine what it is my ideas convey... but many other articulate people, & also doctors do fully understand them. have I moved passed some, in some way, or are some so stuck within their narrow ideas, they aren't capable to see other concepts ?

it can be very difficult to convey ideas & thoughts to those who see no value in any change. these are usually the ones who are flourishing, in the status quo.

Sorry to hear of your struggles DL. It can take a lifetime to heal these types of scars, and it certainly takes courage to share.

Wish you well.

I was going to be glib dee - luded and suggest you stop barracking for Melbourne for a few years.....but I won't. I do think, however, that you need to connect with your local gp in the first instance with a view to finding someone to chat to.

I do RtG, but since I moved 4 months ago, instead of being 1.25hrs drive one way, its 2.5hrs one way. going tomorrow. about 6 weekly nowadays. & will pickup some ebay merchandise as well. a big drive.

the passion for Melbourne I had to let go years back as I would get down for months at a time. so i had to let that depth subside... & now for me it is to see this club become successful almost like a duty of mine.

once its gets back up again, i think i will just give the game away. because I don't have the heart connection to it anymore. just the head connection, the unfinished business sort of thing.

you see with my different learning as a youngster, I suspect I can see & understand some things about culture, Our culture crisis, & about the exodus of many of our supporters over the decades... i think I may have a stronger understanding of these things than many, at least. the nature of the direction of the things I've had to learn due to my environment.

so yes, I see a quack for talk & support only, & prescription, for the ones i wanted, not his recommendation, he didn't trust my ones, but has since changed his mind. I was right... venlafaxine XR... this originally made me sick, ie (hypomania) after being on 375mgs a day for about 31/2 yrs, almost had a breakdown, right to the limit... but it did get me up & going... just was overdosed on it for 3.25 yrs, ending up like the every-ready man.

now its 150mg's max, or I start to get over-energized.

I will find the local mens group, I give you my word. & if need be, a local. but 'reactive depression & a mostly lifelong anxiety' (since my sister), is socially based. it's not dangerous, nor psychotic, nor dangerous to others. only to the sufferer.

Sorry to hear of your struggles DL. It can take a lifetime to heal these types of scars, and it certainly takes courage to share.

Wish you well.

you know, it is all relative to what JW & others we recruit, come with, Re they're personalities, ability to cope, & with social bullying, & physical abuse, on the streets or on the playing field. you learn to fight back or you get kicked down.

I have found since those days I can do things with my eyes closed, when learning to trust your instinct in sports. home runs, resting touch's, driving hard, driving and beating others drivers around Calder Park Raceway first time on there, & including against some in their own Go carts.

... so to learn to trust yourself & to start to believe in your own abilities, can be very difficult, but when you do, it can prove things you always thought of yourself were wrong self doubts.

this is why I said Wattsy needs to remove himself away from his comfort zones at home, if he wants to succeed in AFL.

my learning is at sub-conscious level, the improvement, but I cannot get over the initial anxiety, the social anxiety of trusting at close range. sometimes I analyse the therapists. just something i learn't subconsciously over the 3 decades from my analyst, while i was listening to her. I didn't know i was learning that until I told her things I'd noticed. she was shocked.

and she told me after some years, that I was very very intelligent. for what its worth... but not so when i'm really anxious. all that craap scars rolling around in there, get in the way of processing, as you would when unencumbered.

still, these kids who are in pain, & struggling to believe in themselves... the hard physical contested elite sports world, is a tough place to learn these things, & kick footy's well, at the same time.

Sorry to hear of your struggles DL. It can take a lifetime to heal these types of scars, and it certainly takes courage to share.

Wish you well.

cheers, CJ

See to me, that makes it even more unbelievable... Why would PJ tell the daughter of a media personality secrets about our list management before the end of the season? Doesn't add up.

For a couple of reasons. You're unbelievably naive to think that the powers that be don't talk to their mates about things that happen at the club. The board especially are generally Melbourne supporters who happen to have good business acumen, but they've got their mates who they still love to talk footy with. I used to work with a board member who'd throw me some interesting bits of gossip. But of course they're not going to be disclosing the real clandestine stuff that if it gets out could hurt the club.

But the club is (supposedly) going to put Jack up for trade. To do this they will need to inform every other club that he's available, so its hardly a secret that needs to be kept under wraps.

For a couple of reasons. You're unbelievably naive to think that the powers that be don't talk to their mates about things that happen at the club. The board especially are generally Melbourne supporters who happen to have good business acumen, but they've got their mates who they still love to talk footy with. I used to work with a board member who'd throw me some interesting bits of gossip. But of course they're not going to be disclosing the real clandestine stuff that if it gets out could hurt the club.

But the club is (supposedly) going to put Jack up for trade. To do this they will need to inform every other club that he's available, so its hardly a secret that needs to be kept under wraps.

this may be why he was dropped unexpectedly ? & to help aid with any decisions he needs to make?

For a couple of reasons. You're unbelievably naive to think that the powers that be don't talk to their mates about things that happen at the club. The board especially are generally Melbourne supporters who happen to have good business acumen, but they've got their mates who they still love to talk footy with. I used to work with a board member who'd throw me some interesting bits of gossip. But of course they're not going to be disclosing the real clandestine stuff that if it gets out could hurt the club.

But the club is (supposedly) going to put Jack up for trade. To do this they will need to inform every other club that he's available, so its hardly a secret that needs to be kept under wraps.

I don't rate footy club boards. I think whilst they may contain good business people they are generally liniment sniffers around footy clubs and like to make themselves feel they know more than they do.

No self respecting footy department would share list management decisions with board members.

I'll be very disappointed if Watts is traded.

That said, not a great sign that he was 'omitted' for the last game.

Howe looks set to leave. Also disappointing.

I don't rate footy club boards. I think whilst they may contain good business people they are generally liniment sniffers around footy clubs and like to make themselves feel they know more than they do.

No self respecting footy department would share list management decisions with board members.

That's your prerogative to not rate them, but I guarantee you they know a hell of a lot more about what's going on from a list management perspective than you think. At all clubs.

_{most of the players on the list are capable of being traded if the price is right, simple as that.}

I'll be very disappointed if Watts is traded.

That said, not a great sign that he was 'omitted' for the last game.

Howe looks set to leave. Also disappointing.

If Cross' last act on a football field typified his whole career then Jeremy Howe's (potential) last hanger at the MFC typified his career as a Demon.

Takes an absolute screamer that gets everyone out of their seats and then proceeds to make the worst possible skill error available that results in a goal.

I'm not a player basher but he is in that 2009-2011 cohort I have mentioned before on here.

See to me, that makes it even more unbelievable... Why would PJ tell the daughter of a media personality secrets about our list management before the end of the season? Doesn't add up.

Oh, i'd forgotten that immutable law that says life is just a big equation.

just because you can't understand the algorithm stuie, doesn't mean it's not mathematically consistent

If Cross' last act on a football field typified his whole career then Jeremy Howe's (potential) last hanger at the MFC typified his career as a Demon.

Takes an absolute screamer that gets everyone out of their seats and then proceeds to make the worst possible skill error available that results in a goal.

I'm not a player basher but he is in that 2009-2011 cohort I have mentioned before on here.

I hoped that Howe would take a big stride forward this season but it hasn't happened. I still believe he is most dangerous as a forward. Being the single best aerialist in the game is a weapon that is under utilised in the backline in my humble view.

If he moves to another club, I fully expect to see him played predominantly as a forward and having a greater impact than he has in recent seasons where he has been marginally above serviceable.

What's happening?!?

I hoped that Howe would take a big stride forward this season but it hasn't happened. I still believe he is most dangerous as a forward. Being the single best aerialist in the game is a weapon that is under utilised in the backline in my humble view.

If he moves to another club, I fully expect to see him played predominantly as a forward and having a greater impact than he has in recent seasons where he has been marginally above serviceable.

I tend to agree.

Howe's move to the backline was something that originated, as far as I can tell, after round 2 2014. We had just gotten humiliated by the Eagles and Roos was looking for something, ANYTHING, that could stop 2014 from turning into another 2013. I believe Chip was moved forward and Howe was moved back. I guess Roos' mentality has been defensive, to his detriment on occasion, so he saw a Howe move back was in line with the thinking from that year (i.e. defense first).

This year Jeremy probably should have been moved forward. Especially with how disappointing Dawesy has been.

That being said, he needed to cut down on the brain fades and clangers before I would have felt comfortable with him as a player. Strange that it did blight him so much as he actually is a decent kick if he puts his mind to it.

Oh, i'd forgotten that immutable law that says life is just a big equation.

just because you can't understand the algorithm stuie, doesn't mean it's not mathematically consistent

At least we know it terminates... And we need to distinguish between consistent and complete! In life terms, if rather the latter...

That's your prerogative to not rate them, but I guarantee you they know a hell of a lot more about what's going on from a list management perspective than you think. At all clubs.

yep, especially at the wheeling & dealing around contracts, to allow space for that big push for the A grade mid required.

crucial someone like PJ knows whats goin on, & approaches players we need, so we can move ahead.

That's your prerogative to not rate them, but I guarantee you they know a hell of a lot more about what's going on from a list management perspective than you think. At all clubs.

I hope they don't know what's going on at the MFC...the fewer that know the better, in particular big mouthed liniment sniffers.