2 hours ago, Bossdog said:

25 disposals

12 intercepts

11 marks

1 goal

4 score involvements

7 pressure acts

6 intercept marks

99 pts for supercoach which subtracts points for clangers

88% DE

Yeah lets drop him    Bloody useless

His intercepts are generally because he leaves his man regularly  , they are cancelled out by the number of times his man is left running into space behind him.  He has admittedly taken some great intercept marks this year and I've been to all Vic games but he is frustrating to watch.   Watched it all day at etihad against the saints, we were all howling from the wing as soon as St Kilda gained possession TMac was off his man..  And at the G yesterday he was at it again.  No he's not useless, and no we cant drop him, but if he's our key defender moving forward we are in big trouble.

11 minutes ago, Itsabouttohappen said:

His intercepts are generally because he leaves his man regularly  , they are cancelled out by the number of times his man is left running into space behind him.  He has admittedly taken some great intercept marks this year and I've been to all Vic games but he is frustrating to watch.   Watched it all day at etihad against the saints, we were all howling from the wing as soon as St Kilda gained possession TMac was off his man..  And at the G yesterday he was at it again.  No he's not useless, and no we cant drop him, but if he's our key defender moving forward we are in big trouble.

And this too is an over-reaction.

Why do you think his man is running into space behind him ? It is usually because we turned the ball over. You are semi correct about the StKilda - TMac was off his man as soon as we got possession and then we turn the thing over and guess what ? Tmac is off his man.

It is not hard to figure out why we are leaking so many goals over the back when we didn't last year. Last year our only attack came from forward of the centre - this year the Wagners, Hunts, Jetta and Tmac are all becoming part of our attack  - hence the reason we are scoring more. We are following the trend of Hawthorn - the difference is that Hawthorn at their best rarely if ever turn the ball over. 

If you want to go back to 50-60 points a game then no problem - there will be few goals leaked over the back. But watching all teams this year - the reason for high scores is the half back line - even full back line are running and spreading hard and forward. Makes for pretty offensive football but turn it over and its a goal against. It ain't just us. 

Edited May 16, 20169 yr by nutbean

2 hours ago, Choke said:

 

In fact I wish more of his team mates lifted in the second half as he did.

Me too. I loved the fact he willed himself back into the contest and tried to get the team back into the contest. He was very vocal in the second half and as i said ran hard to give options, when many of his teammates seemed to stopped running. He really tried to bring Hogan into the game and kicked a couple of brilliantly weighted kicks to advantage, including the one that Hogan missed from dead in front at the Punt road end (which as noted in the Hun zinged up the other end from the kick out, with the bullies kicking a goal) and his last quarter goal. 

There was one where he ran from deep forward to the members wing to space calling for the ball from a player in the centre, who ignored him and went to the other side. I think we ended up kicking a goal (at the city end) or at least having a shot on goals so hard to say it was the wrong option but it was lucky goal and i thought the right play was to go to Jack. But my point was Jack gut rn back to the forward pocket to be an option again when the ball went through. I watched him and he was totally spent, down on haunches and sucking wind.

As you say if more of his team mates had applied the same effort we might of got closer.

Also it should not be underestimated the value of his 3 second half goals (and two goals assists) to the final  score line. A five goal loss is a lot mote credible than a 8 goal loss, which explains the general media commentary (which is largely that a five goals loss is a pretty true reflection of the gap between the teams). 

One of the first picked. 

Edited May 16, 20169 yr by binman

6 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

If watts got a dollar for every time he was burnt by someone he could double his salary 

Yes and I don't understand why he is not the go to forward, get the ball to him just 6 times a game inside 50 m and you have 5.1 on the board, whereas Jesse is less reliable as we saw on Sunday. Of course Watts can't be the main target all the time as he then gets maximum attention from the Opposition. Jesse remains the main man but if JW is making a lead out on or past 50 it should be honoured more often. 

16 hours ago, Django said:

The angst over Hogan and Fremantle is enough to try and cope with, thank you very much.

At the end of their careers, I think we'll look back and be pretty happy with the decision to take Watts at 1.

Twas a joke.

22 hours ago, ProDee said:

Was absolutely pathetic in the contest.

But I knew his junk time goals would appease some.

Predictable. Kicked 3 goals and set up others. Not a great game, but definitely a pass on any (reasonable) construction.

Junk time goals? Nope. It's good that we arrested a potential 10-15 goal blow out and competed until the final siren against a top 4 team.

The Bulldogs do not ease the foot of the accelerator in 'junk time', which I take it you mean the entire second half given that's when Watts lifted his game, kicked his goals and set up others.

 

10 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Predictable. Kicked 3 goals and set up others. Not a great game, but definitely a pass on any (reasonable) construction.

Junk time goals? Nope. It's good that we arrested a potential 10-15 goal blow out and competed until the final siren against a top 4 team.

The Bulldogs do not ease the foot of the accelerator in 'junk time', which I take it you mean the entire second half given that's when Watts lifted his game, kicked his goals and set up others.

 

No, what is predictable is the usual Dees' fans that have no clue why the club tried to trade him last year and have no clue why no other club was prepared to pay an early second rounder for him.  What do you guys watch when you're at the footy ?  If you're watching on TV then you can't appreciate his incredibly soft efforts. 

I've acknowledged his improvement in the contest, which is what has held him back all these years, but his first half was as bad as anything he's previously dished up.

It's all above the shoulders and he's never far away from being the incredibly soft footballer I've grown to despise.

24 minutes ago, ProDee said:

No, what is predictable is the usual Dees' fans that have no clue why the club tried to trade him last year and have no clue why no other club was prepared to pay an early second rounder for him.  What do you guys watch when you're at the footy ?  If you're watching on TV then you can't appreciate his incredibly soft efforts. 

I've acknowledged his improvement in the contest, which is what has held him back all these years, but his first half was as bad as anything he's previously dished up.

It's all above the shoulders and he's never far away from being the incredibly soft footballer I've grown to despise.

His 3 goals were good but in the first half hardly knew he was on the ground. They put up his stats just before 3/4 time - no tackles. Needs to learn how to impact games even when he's having an off day. Old Watts in the first half

19 hours ago, WhyAlwaysMe said:

we are heading towards finals (probably next year) as good as JW has been this season deep down we all know he won't stand up in finals, due to his good form so far this season he has some trade value.

I'm not certain of that at all. We haven't had many wins recently, but in a decent number of those wins Jack has been the one to step up in crucial moments, including a few goals that have iced the game.

He's the one bloke in our team you would want kicking for goal when the pressure's on.

Edited May 16, 20169 yr by ChaserJ

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

No, what is predictable is the usual Dees' fans that have no clue why the club tried to trade him last year and have no clue why no other club was prepared to pay an early second rounder for him.  What do you guys watch when you're at the footy ?  If you're watching on TV then you can't appreciate his incredibly soft efforts. 

I've acknowledged his improvement in the contest, which is what has held him back all these years, but his first half was as bad as anything he's previously dished up.

It's all above the shoulders and he's never far away from being the incredibly soft footballer I've grown to despise.

Nev Jetta was on the way out of the club too. Players can turn their careers around.

Watts is in the mix for the third tall forward AA slot thus far this season. Many here need to let go of the past and assess him on his performances this year, which have been bloody good on the whole.

His kicking (field and set shot) and vision around the ground is elite. Suspect the club would be devastated now if Watts decided to leave the club (which I think is highly unlikely in any event, given that he seems to be a quality individual with proper settings on club loyalty etc).

 

1 hour ago, loges said:

His 3 goals were good but in the first half hardly knew he was on the ground. They put up his stats just before 3/4 time - no tackles. Needs to learn how to impact games even when he's having an off day. Old Watts in the first half

In many ways his 3 goals were better than good. To explain.  Whether it was the first five mins of a quarter or last  ( as some are keen to ascribe  Reject shop value ) is irrelevant  in so far as he accomplished two things each time.  First and most importantly he added 6 points to the scoreboard .  Each time he did it under absolute scrutiny. These weren't impromptu lucky kicks , they were beautiful executed  kicks for goal under the gaze of EVERYONE.

Doersnt miss too many ol' Jack

If we had the ball 50 out anywhere,  after the siren to win.. Id want him kicking it

Edited May 16, 20169 yr by beelzebub

17 hours ago, Itsabouttohappen said:

His intercepts are generally because he leaves his man regularly  , they are cancelled out by the number of times his man is left running into space behind him.  He has admittedly taken some great intercept marks this year and I've been to all Vic games but he is frustrating to watch.   Watched it all day at etihad against the saints, we were all howling from the wing as soon as St Kilda gained possession TMac was off his man..  And at the G yesterday he was at it again.  No he's not useless, and no we cant drop him, but if he's our key defender moving forward we are in big trouble.

I thought this was a Jack Watts thread!??

20 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Many here need to let go of the past and assess him on his performances this year, which have been bloody good on the whole.

Which is exactly what I've done.  I've praised him this year, but when he  reverts to wonderfully insipid efforts I'll whack him, or anybody else that dishes up that sort of tripe.

It appears to me that I'm just about the only one prepared to properly critique this guy.

1 hour ago, loges said:

His 3 goals were good but in the first half hardly knew he was on the ground. They put up his stats just before 3/4 time - no tackles. Needs to learn how to impact games even when he's having an off day. Old Watts in the first half

The same could be said of Hogan. The difference is he didn't turn his day around in the way JW did (even with Watts trying to help to do so).

By the by Watts' efforts to do so makes ýour assertion that he needs to learn how to impact games even when he's having an off day a little strange

Edited May 17, 20169 yr by binman

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

No, what is predictable is the usual Dees' fans that have no clue why the club tried to trade him last year and have no clue why no other club was prepared to pay an early second rounder for him.  What do you guys watch when you're at the footy ?  If you're watching on TV then you can't appreciate his incredibly soft efforts. 

I've acknowledged his improvement in the contest, which is what has held him back all these years, but his first half was as bad as anything he's previously dished up.

It's all above the shoulders and he's never far away from being the incredibly soft footballer I've grown to despise.

So then he has no hope in your eyes.     Magner was tough bull at a gate player, Jack is not but provides more skill in his little finger than some of these players.....He provide the out side skill that we need at the moment, he lead every time whether it is honoured or not.   Is hot on the tail of Hogan for the most goals kicked by us this year and is involved in many score assists. What else do you want him to do?

He has been playing well this year and you begrudgingly acknowledge that, but you are sitting there waiting for him to fail and then get your knife out and "despise" him.

Saw TMac kick three beautiful passes to players on the wing which resulted in scores for us yet as soon as he mucks one up Yes get the knives out.

  I am going to ban myself from DL for a while........Win and we are top four material.......Lose and every player is hopeless and some are looking to trade all and sundry.

And player assessment is more like player assassination.   Posters hoping that Garland never plays again?   What is with that?    Posters bagging the crap out of T Mac, Grimes, Pedo.     I just don't get it.      

 

  

1 hour ago, loges said:

His 3 goals were good but in the first half hardly knew he was on the ground. They put up his stats just before 3/4 time - no tackles. Needs to learn how to impact games even when he's having an off day. Old Watts in the first half

I noticed in the first half he tried to take marks from behind by hooking the ball out with one hand and hopefully completing the mark out the back, or being able to pounce on the ball if it spilled.  Unfortunately it spilled at every attempt, but not where he wanted it too so he was beaten to it.  He has to try not be so cute and just attempt the mark with both hands.

His game in the second half was ok and he he kicked a few goals, the way he does, if we are expecting Jack to be a pack crasher or a really physical player then that's not going to happen, what he is, he is and he may become a bit more physical as time goes by but it probably won't be much more than what he is at the moment.

As long as he goes when it's his turn ok, if he doesn't then it's not. Jack has a way of getting away and putting himself in position to mark and goal and this is pretty important if you want to win games, one failed tackle is not as important as 3 goals, they are whet wins games.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Bossdog said:

So then he has no hope in your eyes.     Magner was tough bull at a gate player, Jack is not but provides more skill in his little finger than some of these players.....He provide the out side skill that we need at the moment, he lead every time whether it is honoured or not.   Is hot on the tail of Hogan for the most goals kicked by us this year and is involved in many score assists. What else do you want him to do?

He has been playing well this year and you begrudgingly acknowledge that, but you are sitting there waiting for him to fail and then get your knife out and "despise" him.  

You'll be the last one I respond to.  I'll try and make it really simple to understand.

rjay, a poster I admire, recently said that Watts will never be a competitive beast and supporters should understand that.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.

Watts is getting games this year, because he's had a fantastic summer and improved his contested work immeasurably.  This has been mentioned by Watts himself, his coaches and fellow teammates.  It had previously been at a standard that didn't guarantee another contract and would see him spending more time at Casey (if he somehow managed to get another year) like he did in round 23.

There are bare minimum levels of effort and Watts sails too close to the breeze too often.  I like what I've seen this year, but if he drops off in the effort stakes he won't impact games to required levels.

So, of course, rjay, Watts will never play like Viney or Selwood, the thickest supporter of any club in Melbourne would know that, but for me there are required levels that must be met, or he'll dish up unacceptable performances like Sunday.  

I acknowledge that all of the above completely falls on deaf ears.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

 

It's all above the shoulders and he's never far away from being the incredibly soft footballer I've grown to despise.

Despise? That's a very strong emotion. I thought you didn't get emotionally invested in players?

As for his so called insipid display and junk time goals one can only assume, given your football knowledge, that the club won't stand for it and despite the credits he has built up this season Roos will agree with your assessment and drop him from the seniors to send a strong signal to the whole playing list that such displays will not be tolerated. 

5 minutes ago, binman said:

Despise? That's a very strong emotion. I thought you didn't get emotionally invested in players?

As for his so called insipid display and junk time goals one can only assume, given your football knowledge, that the club won't stand for it and despite the credits he has built up this season Roos will agree with your assessment and drop him from the seniors to send a strong signal to the whole playing list that such displays will not be tolerated. 

51 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

In many ways his 3 goals were better than good. To explain.  Whether it was the first five mins of a quarter or last  ( as some are keen to ascribe  Reject shop value ) is irrelevant  in so far as he accomplished two things each time.  First and most importantly he added 6 points to the scoreboard .  Each time he did it under absolute scrutiny. These weren't impromptu lucky kicks , they were beautiful executed  kicks for goal under the gaze of EVERYONE.

Doersnt miss too many ol' Jack

If we had the ball 50 out anywhere,  after the siren to win.. Id want him kicking it

Agreed. If Jack has 12 kicks and 3 of them are goals, I'd back the other 9 to be delivered to a team mates advantage.

Plus 11 marks is a fair effort in any game.

The fact that his second half was better than his first shows that he is playing the game out.

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You'll be the last one I respond to.  I'll try and make it really simple to understand.

rjay, a poster I admire, recently said that Watts will never be a competitive beast and supporters should understand that.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.

Watts is getting games this year, because he's had a fantastic summer and improved his contested work immeasurably.  This has been mentioned by Watts himself, his coaches and fellow teammates.  It had previously been at a standard that didn't guarantee another contract and would see him spending more time at Casey (if he somehow managed to get another year) like he did in round 23.

There are bare minimum levels of effort and Watts sails too close to the breeze too often.  I like what I've seen this year, but if he drops off in the effort stakes he won't impact games to required levels.

So, of course, rjay, Watts will never play like Viney or Selwood, the thickest supporter of any club in Melbourne would know that, but for me there are required levels that must be met, or he'll dish up unacceptable performances like Sunday.  

I acknowledge that all of the above completely falls on deaf ears.

Ok......I see your point of view Jack's stats (I know that stats aren't to be all and end all.)

                                                                                         Hogan

15 possessions ( 2 contested 13 UC)                   17 poss(10 contested  7 uc)

11 marks                                                               9 marks

5 Pressure acts                                                     9 pressure acts

3 goals.0                                                                1.3

3 assists                                                                4 goal assists

9 s core involvements                                           9 score involvements

92% DE                                                                59% DE

I think that they compliment each other very well and long may it continue

Classic form that Watts has become the point of focus after a loss, even though he contributed 3 goals. He has been great this season, and there were a number worse than him on the weekend. Give him a break.

49 minutes ago, binman said:

The same could be said of Hogan. The difference is he didn't turn his day around in the way JW did (even with Watts trying to help to do so).

By the by Watts' efforts to do so makes ýour assertion that he needs to learn how to impact games even when he's having an off day a little strange

We needed him in the first half not when we were 5 goals behind

14 minutes ago, loges said:

We needed him in the first half not when we were 5 goals behind

What we needed was for Hogan to kick crucial goals! He didn't deliver because of his shonky kick procedure! Jack Watts is one of the most relaible kicks for goal in the league. Jessie Hogan is not! Stark difference then in realities in those stages of the game when the score and game were there for the taking!

23 minutes ago, loges said:

We needed him in the first half not when we were 5 goals behind

We needed at least a dozen players to lift, not just Watts.