Some serious questions asked about Paul Roos ...

[Guest]

The only result I'm interested in is the win/loss column at the end of this year. If it's ticking upwards then while I wouldn't say I would be ecstatic, I will be content that the long term strategy of the club is progressing. If we won 4 games again or even less, then I would be asking questions.

By the end of this season, we will be back to roughly where we were in 2010/2011: a youngish but inconsistent team who is looming to take the next step to being a finalist. Not a top four finalist but more around the 6th to 8th range. The last time we were in this position, we didn't hold our nerve and overreacted. I would hate to see us do that again.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Look at them come out of the woodwork again. We have too many supporters who love losses like these as they can jump up and down and rant and rave about this and that. Knock yourselves out guys.

The game means nothing. We played a side hungry for finals and we literally have nothing to play for. In the context of our season and where we are headed it means nothing.

Move on quickly, if you can. You'll feel better.

[P-man 13,366]

It's almost immaterial what anyone thinks of Roos as a game day coach anymore.

Whether he goes the +1 in defence at the right time, whether he is bold enough in his positional changes, whether he is reactive enough etc. It's plain as day when reading between the lines that he will be letting Goodwin hold alot more sway next season, and it is on Goody's shoulders that alot of our fortunes will lie.

Roos was always about addressing the the bigger picture in the main - culture, playing list etc. In spite of yesterday, and my disagreement with some of what he says and does, he's been a major asset to the club in this regard.

He is a proud man, and he will be doing everything in his power to prevent a repeat of last season where performances taper off and nothing is gained. The Carlton game has come at a good time for him and the club. The players need a shot in the arm. A figurative one. Not an Essendon one.

[old dee 23,872]

Look at them come out of the woodwork again. We have too many supporters who love losses like these as they can jump up and down and rant and rave about this and that. Knock yourselves out guys.

The game means nothing. We played a side hungry for finals and we literally have nothing to play for. In the context of our season and where we are headed it means nothing.

Move on quickly, if you can. You'll feel better.

Small alteration there Wiseblood

Had almost no one that displayed AFL skill.

[stuie 7,374]

The game means nothing. We played a side hungry for finals and we literally have nothing to play for. In the context of our season and where we are headed it means nothing.

Couldn't disagree with this more. Every game means something. If we're going to base if the game means anything on how much it means to the other team then why even bother showing up week after week? The reason our culture is in this mess is because we didn't value winning games enough.

I would have thought beating a similarly aged team at a venue we've not won in for 8 years was enough of a context to show up.

[praha 11,240]

It's hardly a "Grand Final" when the team you're playing wants to lose.

Then we should [censored] them, no?

[Adam The God 30,407]

The $1.5 Mill is proving to be the biggest joke ever played on our club.

Roos needs to display some passion ,nous,common sense and grit.

The philosophical approach isn't doing it for me at all.

I don't care what it's doing for you. I care how the players react to it. At this point, it seems progress is slow, but nevertheless, present.

Edited August 17, 2015 by AdamFarr

[Little Richard 6,265]

Look at them come out of the woodwork again. We have too many supporters who love losses like these as they can jump up and down and rant and rave about this and that. Knock yourselves out guys.

The game means nothing. We played a side hungry for finals and we literally have nothing to play for. In the context of our season and where we are headed it means nothing.

Move on quickly, if you can. You'll feel better.

At least a good 50% of Demonland members have suffered irreparable mental trauma over the past decade. This is the result - monumental mood swings, frequent doomsday prophecies and a terrible ability to ignore the obvious improvement we've seen this year.

[Little Richard 6,265]

I don't care what it's doing for you. I care how the players react to it. At this point, it seems progress is slow, but nevertheless present.

It was never going to be an instant fix, coming from further back than any club ever has. I doubt any coach would have us in a better position than we are right now, and we are on the up - all evidence points to this.

[P-man 13,366]

Then we should [censored] them, no?

Should? Yes. But Carlton are not that far behind us, as shameful as that is to admit. As poor as they have been, they are still ranked sixth in the league for clearances. They can't translate that into scores like the Dogs or Kangaroos, but they have the potential to place us on the back foot early which is not a good position for us to be in. It can lead to cricket scorelines like 2-76.

I don't believe they want to lose. I certainly don't believe they will want to lose against us.

[Sir Why You Little 37,126]

Couldn't disagree with this more. Every game means something. If we're going to base if the game means anything on how much it means to the other team then why even bother showing up week after week? The reason our culture is in this mess is because we didn't value winning games enough.

I would have thought beating a similarly aged team at a venue we've not won in for 8 years was enough of a context to show up.

Agree 100% with this

The reason this club is in the Shite is because we haven't valued winning consistently since John Northey was in charge.

Yesterday was an embarassment. 98 point loss but keep the Dogs goalless in the 3rd....

Pick and Choice Demons...

[Adam The God 30,407]

Not reading all that.

Roos was brought in at a low ebb and I am frustrated - how can you not be? But to say that this coming game is important as the most important game a club can have is pretty rich...

We have had some lows but unlike previous seasons - the highs have been much higher.

The progress has stuttered but its there, unfortunately, we keep on taking steps backward after clawing forward.

It's all about the Sunday to Monday culture for this club and Roos will help that immeasurably. The difference between finishing 7 and 15 and 9 and 13 will be irrelevant in a months time and we once again hope that we can get another Vince, another Brayshaw, another Vandenberg...

...and do it all again in 2016.

The silver lining will actually be a slightly easier draw next year than it could have been.

We surprised them last time by being able to tie up their running game.

But they were ready for us this time and worked out how to make sure we wouldn't do it again.

Well, we surrendered the corridor in the opening moments of the game and then didn't bother shutting the door until the third quarter.

Our 3rd quarter positional changes worked extremely well. We began to win clearances & put them under pressure, which made them panic & look quite ordinary.

It's very unlike Roos to make such decisive and bold positional changes (T.Mac on to the ball for the whole quarter & Gawn forward were really out of left field) in the course of a game, but they nailed it.

So why couldn't we keep it going? Did we change it all back in the last quarter? T.Mac seemed to be back in defence the whole quarter.

It was a very strange game, and our third quarter was the strangest part of it. We seemed to grab the initiative with bold moves, and then just meekly hand it back again.

I think there's a combination of things at play here. Often, I think our coaching team coaches to minimise the defeat, rather than win the game. Our stoppage work is evidence of this. I also wonder if the coaches are trying to get the players to work their way around certain situations and get them to lower their eyes in offensive play. This is probably evidenced in allowing a spare man in defence against so many oppositions. It's as if our coaches want our players to learn their way through these plays, but unfortunately, at the same time, it means our tactics don't necessarily suit many of the below standard AFL players on our list.

I wonder if that bold move was a Roos one or a Goodwin one.

People seem to have very short memories. P Roos took over when 100 point smashings were not uncommon at all. We would lose pretty much every week by at least 10 goals. We were absolutely deplorable and the culture of the club was just as bad.

Paul has come in and is working through these issues. I for one never thought the rise would be fast due to the damage done by the previous administration and coaches. What we have now is a team that at its best is actually pretty good (see Cats, Pies, Dogs, Tigers games from earlier this year), we couldn't have said our best was anywhere near that good 2 years ago. The problem we have is that our worst is still pretty bad, but we are seeing far less of it than we were.

Roos and the great coaches he has around him are turning the club around both on and off the field, the job wont be complete when Roos finishes up but he should have a group ready to continue to the push when he does.

The worst thing the club could do now is either go with a youth policy or remove the coach. The instability it causes would kill the club. There would be no coming back.

Great post. Nailed it. The gap between our best and worst is far too great, which Roos has lamented for most of the year. The positive for me and the sure sign of tangible improvement is that we actually have a 'best' now. Under Neeld we only had one gear and it was hopeless week in, week out. Our 'best' can beat 14 other sides in the competition. Our 'bad' will see us lose to everyone, including Brisbane and Carlton.

[rpfc 28,775]

And let's not forget - we have improved by 50% since last year, and that is a scientific fact...

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I don't think this game was lost by Roos.

This game was all about effort which we saw in the third quarter (after a Roos spray) but the players just couldn't get up for it the rest of the time.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

At least a good 50% of Demonland members have suffered irreparable mental trauma over the past decade. This is the result - monumental mood swings, frequent doomsday prophecies and a terrible ability to ignore the obvious improvement we've seen this year.

Spot on.

But they revel in it. The moment things go wrong they splash themselves all over the site with dribble. We need to thank all the gods that the site went down last night as we may have had a few jump off a cliff otherwise.

[P-man 13,366]

Spot on.

But they revel in it. The moment things go wrong they splash themselves all over the site with dribble. We need to thank all the gods that the site went down last night as we may have had a few jump off a cliff otherwise.

I did get a chuckle out of the site crashing last night. Timed it well.

[Chris 2,892]

Should? Yes. But Carlton are not that far behind us, as shameful as that is to admit. As poor as they have been, they are still ranked sixth in the league for clearances. They can't translate that into scores like the Dogs or Kangaroos, but they have the potential to place us on the back foot early which is not a good position for us to be in. It can lead to cricket scorelines like 2-76.

I don't believe they want to lose. I certainly don't believe they will want to lose against us.

Aussie cricket team would be happy with that score!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Spot on.

But they revel in it. The moment things go wrong they splash themselves all over the site with dribble. We need to thank all the gods that the site went down last night as we may have had a few jump off a cliff otherwise.

Call me conspiratorial but sometimes I reckon Nasher 'accidentally' knocks the OFF button at certain times

[old dee 23,872]

Call me conspiratorial but sometimes I reckon Nasher 'accidentally' knocks the OFF button at certain times

Good afternoon Conspiratorial

[Gator 17,449]

Then we should [censored] them, no?

Who knows, but to even suggest this game is a "Grand Final" indicates you've become 'institutionalised' by the Melbourne Football Club.

Edited August 17, 2015 by ProDee

[TGR 1,367]

On the flip side you might be kidding yourself if you can't work out the speed kills us. (Exception Hawks?) Saints basically burned us twice and should have won the Jack Steven goal encounter by more. Bulldogs in the first half against us before we closed them down.

The slow sides like Richmond, Collingwood (Clokes 8 straight on QB was the difference there surely), Geelong, and North (hopefully next week) don't have jets everywhere.

Yesterday's result was absolutely predictable on the fast deck at Etihad. Most supporters just don't get it. All you need is half a footy brain, and have the ability to be purely objective.

pTGR again.

[Bimbo 940]

I wonder how many of those now questioning the coach, suggested that the team would win 6 - 8 games prior to the season.

To now whinge, unless such prediction was qualified at the time of prediction by suggesting it would not be enough, would suggest that it is they who should be questioned. These were resonable and sensible expectations.

I see a team that has, from a very low base, been addressing the question of culture over four years and actually improving its performance on the field notably this year.

It has been my first game in Australia since the Geelong game. I left in a buoyant mood and my electronic support over the last two weeks has left me joyous and hopeful. The fact that I have been depressed all day and an [censored] to work with, does not detract from my very strong view that the team is on right track.

It is simply not easy to rise up the ladder. There are 16 other teams trying desperately to do that every year.

[poita 3,902]

Look at them come out of the woodwork again. We have too many supporters who love losses like these as they can jump up and down and rant and rave about this and that. Knock yourselves out guys.

The game means nothing. We played a side hungry for finals and we literally have nothing to play for. In the context of our season and where we are headed it means nothing.

Move on quickly, if you can. You'll feel better.

This sort of attitude is exactly why this club has been pitiful for nine years. It doesn't matter whether the players try or not, it doesn't matter whether we win or lose, just pretend it didn't happen and move on to the next woeful performance.

Forget trying to attract new members and new sponsors. Forget trying to build a product and a brand that is attractive to the AFL and its media outlets so that we get the TV coverage and publicity and favourable draw that people whinge about incessantly.

All that matters is that the same old saps hand over their cash each year so that the club can continue to kid itself that it matters to anyone outside the diehards. Bad luck when the kids of the 1950s die out and our membership is cut in half.

This is the first time I've been able to watch a game at home with my 5 year old son this year - he wanted to turn over to the netball by quarter time. And the club wonders why it can't attract junior members / supporters.

Sorry to all the lovers and dreamers out there, but every game matters.

[Slartibartfast 17,625]

And let's not forget - we have improved by 50% since last year, and that is a scientific fact...

No, it's a mathematical calculation.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

The Dogs are on a roll that reminds me of us in 87

Absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

And us again in 2000.

Scary good.