Tom McDonald as a forward

[Deespicable 2,726]

Probably not relevant, but he did kick close to 100 goals playing for edenhope/apsley in his last year there before heading to north Ballarat. As a 16 year old playing u/17s. I think he is too hard on himself which is hindering his ability to do the basics right now. He looks a little lost. Whilst he is a very confident young man, he isn't arrogant. But I think his drop in form has been due to putting too much pressure on himself. Playing Brisbane next week, I'd bring in Fitzpatrick to play full back, and use tom on the wing or up forward. Let him get a free run and find his MOJO again. Unfortunately dawes just can not offer enough and I've made excuses for him every year, but it's just not worthwhile having him in the team anymore.

It's very relevant because it shows he knows the basics of forward play and I actually don't think he's a bad kick at goal - he just got caught up in the emotion of trying to get us back in the contest yesterday.

Tom's not a thumping kick though, in fact neither is Hoges or Dawes - only Pedo and Dunn have that ability and they both are a tad slow for the key forward role.

The biggest concern I'd have long-term to Tom moving forward is that he's one of the few players that takes the game on from down back - Dunny likes to peel off and play safe, Col doesn't realise he can, Jetta is more defensive oriented, Grimes and Crossy both do but they don't kick long enough to clear lines all the time so have to use their smarts to link short first.

The only ones who take it on are Harry O and Salem, so when you add Fitzy for T-Mac, you have actually lost a fair bit of run and then get prone to opposition presses.

Ultimately if Fitzy is to get a game as one of the three bigs, he has to replace Garland - but for this week, I'd give it a go, as the Lions only have one giant in Martin/Leuenberger up forward and that means Garland can switch to a medium tall and Crossy will be needed as a midfield tag - hopefully he gets Beams again.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,054]

I really liked the move forward for him yesterday. He shifted things in our favour and if he'd been able to kick straight we would still have lost . I do think he's better off in defence, but having the option to swing him forward and have an impact is great.

Edited July 12, 2015 by RalphiusMaximus

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

I wonder if it was Roos or Goodwin who decided to throw McDonald forward yesterday. It nearly won us the game. I love seeing a 'plan B' come off, you don't see it too often these days.

[Adam The God 30,261]

Brought it up last week after the WC game. Id personally like to see him start there next weekend. Has a huge motor and would run defenders off their legs.

Only problem is the kicking for goal..

Pretty big problem though, isn't it?

[Nasher 33,616]

Pretty big problem though, isn't it?

Before yesterday he had 4.5, then kicked for goal in the same way everyone else did: like crud. Too small a sample set with too much circumstancial evidence for mine.

I also doubt he's done much goal kicking work since he's been groomed as a defender. It could be any issue that he has with goal kicking could be trained out.

[Adam The God 30,261]

Before yesterday he had 4.5, then kicked for goal in the same way everyone else did: like crud. Too small a sample set with too much circumstancial evidence for mine.

I also doubt he's done much goal kicking work since he's been groomed as a defender. It could be any issue that he has with goal kicking could be trained out.

I don't totally disagree. You're right, mate. It's not like he's been playing forward for years or practicing his goal kicking, but I'm just not sure why you'd start playing a guy, who was set for CHB in the AA team before a dip in form, in the forwardline. It's a recipe for disaster. Carlisle is a very good example why it shouldn't be done. We need to find other ways to get Tommy Mac's confidence up and get him back into form.

I think the match day committee have a bit to answer for with regards to where it all started. Dunn should have played on Cloke on QB and perhaps Tommy Mac would still be playing great footy. There's two sides to it though, I guess, because Tommy Mac was challenged, beaten on the day (QB) and hasn't been able to get himself our of a mental quagmire.

I'm rabbiting on a bit there, but basically, I think it's a bit risky to now turn around and try him as a forward, not to mention a bit defeatist.

Edited July 12, 2015 by AdamFarr

[Nasher 33,616]

I don't totally disagree. You're right, mate. It's not like he's been playing forward for years or practicing his goal kicking, but I'm just not sure why you'd start playing a guy, who was set for CHB in the AA team before a dip in form, in the forwardline. It's a recipe for disaster. Carlisle is a very good example why it shouldn't be done. We need to find other ways to get Tommy Mac's confidence up and get him back into form. I think the match day committee have a bit to answer for with regards to where it all started. Dunn should have played on Cloke on QB and perhaps Tommy Mac would still be playing great footy. There's two sides to it though, I guess, because Tommy Mac was challenged, beaten on the day (QB) and hasn't been able to get himself our of a mental quagmire. I'm rabbiting on a bit there, but basically, I think it's a bit risky to now turn around try him as a forward and a bit defeatist.

Agree with all that mate. Don't want McDonald as a forward either, I want him to be the elite defender he can be. Can only argue with the points put forward, though

[RalphiusMaximus 6,054]

Honestly, I don't think he's that bad a kick. He comes undone by making silly choices sometimes, but the actual kicking isn't bad. Yesterday we had a case of Team Yips which cost us the game, and he was no different to Vince, Jones, Viney, Garlett, Howe, Dawes, vandenBerg, Gawn or Harmes who also missed shots. In the case of several he was better in that he eventually hit the mark (I should also note Tyson, Jetta and Hogan who bucked the trend and nailed their attempts).

I do think that at this stage it would be a bad move to send him forward permanently as we really don't have anyone ready to replace him. I like it as a change-up though.

[CBDees 3,167]

Honestly, I don't think he's that bad a kick. He comes undone by making silly choices sometimes, but the actual kicking isn't bad. Yesterday we had a case of Team Yips which cost us the game, and he was no different to Vince, Jones, Viney, Garlett, Howe, Dawes, vandenBerg, Gawn or Harmes who also missed shots. In the case of several he was better in that he eventually hit the mark (I should also note Tyson, Jetta and Hogan who bucked the trend and nailed their attempts).

I do think that at this stage it would be a bad move to send him forward permanently as we really don't have anyone ready to replace him. I like it as a change-up though.

Apart from Fitzy and Frost and (later) his young brother!

[Adam The God 30,261]

Honestly, I don't think he's that bad a kick. He comes undone by making silly choices sometimes, but the actual kicking isn't bad. Yesterday we had a case of Team Yips which cost us the game, and he was no different to Vince, Jones, Viney, Garlett, Howe, Dawes, vandenBerg, Gawn or Harmes who also missed shots. In the case of several he was better in that he eventually hit the mark (I should also note Tyson, Jetta and Hogan who bucked the trend and nailed their attempts).

I do think that at this stage it would be a bad move to send him forward permanently as we really don't have anyone ready to replace him. I like it as a change-up though.

His kicking for goal yesterday was more than just yips. It's his ball drop.

Yeah, don't mind it as a change up move. It'd help having Frost available...

[Little Richard 6,262]

Should be left to ply his trade in the back line for the rest of the season. But I would be open to him being used up forward more next season if he works on his kicking and Frost and Fitzpleasure are fit and established in the back six.

[old dee 23,792]

id prefer my cohunas on the line with Frosty kicking than TMac !!!

Mac could do a lot worse than watching Dannihers (j) kicking action. Was a treat to watch i hate to confess.

Macs greatest skills are (were )negating someone else.

No one should be in the fwd arc who cant kick ;It's bad enough anyone who cant even being on the pitch !!

A team must maximise its scoring...see melb v ess 11/7 as example need good kickers up front. Its not a negotiable for mine

I was sitting in front of a group of Essendrug supporters and they said that was easily the best he has kicked in his life.

His kicking was not flash but McDonald took more marks in the last quarter than Dawes took all day and as many Hogan.

How could he be possibly worse than Dawes. He gave us bugger all yesterday but I guess that is not new. Why is he an automatic selection?

[old dee 23,792]

Honestly, I don't think he's that bad a kick. He comes undone by making silly choices sometimes, but the actual kicking isn't bad. Yesterday we had a case of Team Yips which cost us the game, and he was no different to Vince, Jones, Viney, Garlett, Howe, Dawes, vandenBerg, Gawn or Harmes who also missed shots. In the case of several he was better in that he eventually hit the mark (I should also note Tyson, Jetta and Hogan who bucked the trend and nailed their attempts).

I do think that at this stage it would be a bad move to send him forward permanently as we really don't have anyone ready to replace him. I like it as a change-up though.

Dawes barely made the distance from 40 metres out in the third quarter. At least McDonald makes the distance.

[Little Richard 6,262]

Dawes barely made the distance from 40 metres out in the third quarter. At least McDonald makes the distance.

Not a fair comment, IMO. When Dawes kicks goals (when), he regularly kicks them from 50 - 55. This is one of his few strong traits.

[old dee 23,792]

Not a fair comment, IMO. When Dawes kicks goals (when), he regularly kicks them from 50 - 55. This is one of his few strong traits.

First you have to get the bloody ball Django.

He is an over paid average player who cannot mark with his hands.

Three of his 4 marks yesterday were chest marks on his own.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

IMO it is definitely worth experimenting again. McDonald had four shots on goal in a quarter and we are not in finals contention. Matthew Richardson kicked 800 career goals and had similar traits to McDonald. We should be more willing to try things in the back end of the season.

[daisycutter 29,616]

More run is needed out of the backline than the forward line in modern footy. It baffles me that people think we should put our fittest players in the forward line.

but you baffle easy, stuie

[SaberFang 7,151]

Don't mind adding a few strings to his bow, but his kicking (especially after the inaccuracy of the team yesterday) probably rules him out as a permanent forward. We need to keep finding players with classy foot skills and get them forward.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Lamashtu

[daisycutter 29,616]

Not a fair comment, IMO. When Dawes kicks goals (when), he regularly kicks them from 50 - 55. This is one of his few strong traits.

and like his other strong traits, we only get to see them once in a blue moon

i'm over dawes. he doesn't earn his lunch. it's clear why the filth were happy to trade.

[dimmy 1,307]

Tommy Mac has the heart to be a legend of this Club. We should be glad we have him. Based on his steady improvement he is obviously listening to the coaches and will develop. Could be the next Harry Taylor (at Melbourne)

[old dee 23,792]

and like his other strong traits, we only get to see them once in a blue moon

i'm over dawes. he doesn't earn his lunch. it's clear why the filth were happy to trade.

Spot on dc

[Little Richard 6,262]

First you have to get the bloody ball Django.

He is an over paid average player who cannot mark with his hands.

Three of his 4 marks yesterday were chest marks on his own.

I happen to absolutely agree with you OD, and I've always had the sentiment that Dawes is just not up to it. But when he has the ball, kicking at distance isn't his issue.

[Chook 15,013]

Classic Demonland thread.

No, just no.

Classic Demonland response.

Why, just why?

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Tom Mcdonald is a good defener..we needed him to go forward against essendon because it the forward line wasnt working...his inaccuracy in front if goal means he will never be a forward..and when he plays in defence he should kick it long and hard...

[monoccular 17,431]

I mentioned it on the end of season list post.

IIRC he was recruited as a forward.

He would give defenders a Riewoldt (N) like runaround, and maybe some hard work on his set shot kicking could get somewhere.

Remember defenders do no set shot kicking development - they need to be able to be accurate and long, but to a target rather that over the goal umpire's head.

It would certainly be worth a go - he can take a good grab, and do a defensive forward's job helping lock the ball in which we did so appallingly yesterday.

I liked what I saw yesterday other than his set shots. And hasn't he pushed forward a few times in the past few rounds to nail a few?

Sparing him from defence would depend on Frost's return, Garland's staying, and his little bro's progress to a degree.

Could allow us to move Dawes on (contract depending) which I would do in a flash, especially if [Pedersen] recovers fully.

Edited July 12, 2015 by monoccular