listen here mr flippant...got news for you. This game is if nothing else defined by wins and losses. NOTHING ELSE . You can grasp at nothing's....like supposed betterments but we actually lost a game we could have won. The week prior we also lost a game we could have won. So what have we really learnt?

we have learnt that we could have won two games and we could be 5-6 at the moment.. which is a far cry from being one of the worst sides ever, which we were just 2 years ago

listen here mr flippant...got news for you. This game is if nothing else defined by wins and losses. NOTHING ELSE . You can grasp at nothing's....like supposed betterments but we actually lost a game we could have won. The week prior we also lost a game we could have won. So what have we really learnt?

Take your shallow and lace it deep perhaps.

So if that last score was a rushed behind and we'd won by 3 points, it would have been a great performance?

looking at the centre bounce set up after Howe's goal, the players in the middle looked like vice, tyson and viney. Why was our captain and best gatherer not in there at the crunch time.

So if that last score was a rushed behind and we'd won by 3 points, it would have been a great performance?

no..hardly...but worth 4 points....and that's the currency of the completion is it not.

The point seems lost on many.. WE LET THEM WIN ffs. So what is it that we've improved exactly ?

lost narrowly to giants - we lost big

beat GC - like us

flogged by pies - we did better

beat dogs - like us

lost to crows - like us

flogged by hawks - like us

you ain't been paying attention old dee. very like us.

Sort of ... I think they still rely heavily on Riewoldt, I think they will actually go backwards when he retires... similarly from the W/E Montagna 32, Ray 29, Gilbert 29 and even Armitage 27 have limited game time left compared to our 22... but for the moment yes a bit like us in terms of performance, but maybe not upside (I hope).

no..hardly...but worth 4 points....and that's the currency of the completion is it not.

The point seems lost on many.. WE LET THEM WIN ffs. So what is it that we've improved exactly ?

We have improved as e could actually have won the game. Could you say that 2 years ago?

I honestly dont understand how anyone cannot see the genuine potential that Melbournes list has for the near future. I don't think we have ever had a list in the last 5-8 years where if we had 10 or so injuries to players who would no doubt be starting or pushing for spots and still be competitive in every facet of the game.

Our midfield won, our forward line arguably performed better but we struggled to run it out of the backline.

In one bit of play where everything that could go the way of the Saints did and that is why it went from one end to the other but we will learn. I am gutted with the loss, but the transition our list has gone through whilst Roos and Taylor have been on board is phenomenal.

We will claim a scalp this year I can see it coming

Interestingly the Saints started clear favourites probably on the back of a great midfield of Steven, Armitage and Montagna plus their key forwards of Reiwoldt and Bruce. Those players put them just ahead of us in their development so the result as disappointing as it is shouldn't be too much of a set back.

Still really am buoyed by the positives especially Watts, Toumpas, Gawn and Grimes.

Edited June 15, 201510 yr by chook fowler

lost narrowly to giants - we lost big

beat GC - like us

flogged by pies - we did better

beat dogs - like us

lost to crows - like us

flogged by hawks - like us

you ain't been paying attention old dee. very like us.

You are proving my point we got beaten by a poor team like us.

If we cannot beat this mob what hope the Cats on the weekend.

no..hardly...but worth 4 points....and that's the currency of the completion is it not.

The point seems lost on many.. WE LET THEM WIN ffs. So what is it that we've improved exactly ?

We've improved because we were in it.

I'm not dumb enough to realise that wins are what is most important. No doubt about it. Yes, we let them win, but we are in so many more games these days where we are in a position to win.

We need to LEARN how to win and go in for the kill, but outside of that we have improved as a team across the board. The second half of the year will truly show that, unlike last year where we fell in a complete heap.

I honestly dont understand how anyone cannot see the genuine potential that Melbournes list has for the near future. I don't think we have ever had a list in the last 5-8 years where if we had 10 or so injuries to players who would no doubt be starting or pushing for spots and still be competitive in every facet of the game.

Our midfield won, our forward line arguably performed better but we struggled to run it out of the backline.

In one bit of play where everything that could go the way of the Saints did and that is why it went from one end to the other but we will learn. I am gutted with the loss, but the transition our list has gone through whilst Roos and Taylor have been on board is phenomenal.

We will claim a scalp this year I can see it coming

yep around the 19th july

We've improved because we were in it.

I'm not dumb enough to realise that wins are what is most important. No doubt about it. Yes, we let them win, but we are in so many more games these days where we are in a position to win.

We need to LEARN how to win and go in for the kill, but outside of that we have improved as a team across the board. The second half of the year will truly show that, unlike last year where we fell in a complete heap.

We were in it March 2014 against the saints and the ended up with the same result

no..hardly...but worth 4 points....and that's the currency of the completion is it not.

The point seems lost on many.. WE LET THEM WIN ffs. So what is it that we've improved exactly ?

My God you are a fool the losing margin is reducing.

We were in it March 2014 against the saints and the ended up with the same result

Not really. We were doubly awful that night. Kicked the first couple and then couldn't get near it apart from a few in the last quarter. We were far better last night than then.

Not really. We were doubly awful that night. Kicked the first couple and then couldn't get near it apart from a few in the last quarter. We were far better last night than then.

This going to [censored] off a few Wiseblood.

Here goes

But we still did not beat lowly St Kilda

That [censored] Montagna kicks the last second winner against us yesterday.

Game of Thrones finale today.

I wonder what disaster awaits me tomorrow.

It is a familiar feeling Wiseblood.

But constant Losing gives me zero joy

Constant pessimism, old dee...

Does that give you joy?

Dead set mate, here we are on an Internet forum where I don't know you from a bar of soap but you're negativity is so [censored] tiresome.

My God you are a fool the losing margin is reducing.

I don't get you though old dee. You seem to revel in the negativity, almost as if you embrace it. You've got 17,000 odd posts and I wonder how many of those have had a shred of positivity in it. I could probably count them on one hand.

And don't give me the rubbish of living through so many losses and blah blah blah. Plenty have done it, yet they don't enjoy it as much as you do. What would happen if we started winning games? Would you cease to post? Would you sit at games and nit pick at ridiculous stuff while our own supporters shake their heads at the silliness of it all? Would it frustrate you that the club is playing well and that the feeling of enjoyment would be so foreign to you?

As I said in an earlier post, I'm glad I don't support like you. In fact I wonder why you support at all to be honest. I just don't get it.

We've improved because we were in it.

I'm not dumb enough to realise that wins are what is most important. No doubt about it. Yes, we let them win, but we are in so many more games these days where we are in a position to win.

We need to LEARN how to win and go in for the kill, but outside of that we have improved as a team across the board. The second half of the year will truly show that, unlike last year where we fell in a complete heap.

seriously...as long as anyone takes comfort and/or solace in a bettering of the margin of loss then it's akin to whether one has rugs and slippers to go with you deckchair on that ship.

As a playing group we seem mentally fragile and inept. The game IS NOT that bloody complex. Golden rules are golden rules. Not sure what's worse that senior players could not invoke it intuitively and covey that urgency to the others....or... A coach is reduced to impotency whilst scrambling to impart a sense of emergency.

I want to believe we've improved...all Dee followers need this. How do you when so many fundamentals are executed poorly.

Apologists seem content. I expect more. I expect the basics at least.

Constant pessimism, old dee...

Does that give you joy?

Dead set mate, here we are on an Internet forum where I don't know you from a bar of soap but you're negativity is so [censored] tiresome.

You cannot help bad luck Steve.

Apologists seem content. I expect more. I expect the basics at least.

Not content but certainly appreciative. The most basic thing surely is being in the game in the final quarter as opposed to out of it in the first.

I don't get you though old dee. You seem to revel in the negativity, almost as if you embrace it. You've got 17,000 odd posts and I wonder how many of those have had a shred of positivity in it. I could probably count them on one hand.

And don't give me the rubbish of living through so many losses and blah blah blah. Plenty have done it, yet they don't enjoy it as much as you do. What would happen if we started winning games? Would you cease to post? Would you sit at games and nit pick at ridiculous stuff while our own supporters shake their heads at the silliness of it all? Would it frustrate you that the club is playing well and that the feeling of enjoyment would be so foreign to you?

As I said in an earlier post, I'm glad I don't support like you. In fact I wonder why you support at all to be honest. I just don't get it.

Wiseblood IMO it is this simple.

The list has improved since the end of 2013

The improvement in my view can only be truly judged by wins and losses.

While the losing margins have decreased ( hawks excepted ) I take no joy in being unable to beat the likes of St Kilda.

That shows me that our improvement is only marginal in my view.

You I think see more improvement than that level.

For the better part of fifty years I have been part of the "Gee we played better this week with a little luck we would have won"

The nett result has been we have appeared in a handful of finals in fifty one years.

I no longer subscribe to that idea.

I now hope to win games like yesterday If we don't it just says to me that we are not good enough and have more work to do.

there is little consultation in losing by any amount.

If that offends people tough.

Edited June 15, 201510 yr by old dee

You cannot help bad luck Steve.

Hang in there, od.

One day, one day we might be able to field a side that is (mostly) made up of AFL standard players.

seriously...as long as anyone takes comfort and/or solace in a bettering of the margin of loss then it's akin to whether one has rugs and slippers to go with you deckchair on that ship.

As a playing group we seem mentally fragile and inept. The game IS NOT that bloody complex. Golden rules are golden rules. Not sure what's worse that senior players could not invoke it intuitively and covey that urgency to the others....or... A coach is reduced to impotency whilst scrambling to impart a sense of emergency.

I want to believe we've improved...all Dee followers need this. How do you when so many fundamentals are executed poorly.

Apologists seem content. I expect more. I expect the basics at least.

You can have both bb. You can want more, and not accept losses, and be angry and disappointed while still acknowledging the growth and improvement that is occuring.

You cannot help bad luck Steve.

I have no doubt you'd be a cracker of a bloke but FFS lighten up.