On 23/08/2015 at 14:16, AdamFarr said:

So you're taking it to mean that there will be more changes than originally expected? Surely it hasn't surely since two weeks ago when Roos said there wouldn't be as many changes?

Not saying there shouldn't be lots of players shown the door though. We could probably lose anywhere between 8 and 10 players.

Two weeks ago we hadn't lost to the Bulldogs by nearly 100 points and Carlton by 4 goals. I guarantee the goalposts have shifted for our list management.

Just wait until Freo destroy us next week and we suffer another humiliating defeat vs GWS to cap off the season. It's become increasingly obvious that there is a deep-seeded toxic culture embedded in parts of our playing group and clearly the coaches have had enough of the excuses. They were given an internal and public kick up the ass after last week's embarrassment then completely blew it against the worst team in the comp.

Edited August 23, 20159 yr by Lamashtu

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:57, Lamashtu said:

Two weeks ago we hadn't lost to the Bulldogs by nearly 100 points and Carlton by 4 goals. I guarantee the goalposts have shifted for our list management.

Just wait until Freo destroy us next week and we suffer another humiliating defeat vs GWS to cap off the season. It's become increasingly obvious that there is a deep-seeded toxic culture embedded in parts of our playing group and clearly the coaches have had enough of the excuses. They were given an internal and public kick up the ass after last week's embarrassment then completely blew it against the worst team in the comp.

Fair enough. I'd be waiting until the end of the year. Who the heck knows what we'll do over the next few weeks. No doubt though, some heads need to roll.

I think Grimes, Michie, Matt Jones, Bail and maybe Newton getting serious game time and high possession counts, are all symptomatic of our deplorable performances.

We need to weed these guys out from our list.

  On 23/08/2015 at 12:58, UltimateDemon said:

TMac I don't want to be traded, and I think Grimes and Garland won't be delisted. Grimes especially has shown today what he is capable of

I do like Grimes as frustrating as he can be, but one thing he needs to do is put on some serious muscle and get back to his 2011 size. He's far too small and weak at the moment.

I have a theory that whenever Grimes plays well we have a whole played badly - he's not the player you want having oodles of possessions as he's simply not a good enough user of the ball.

I maintain my dream trade scenario outlined above is still the dream...however unlikely it may be.

Also, what's all this about Hogan being likely to request a trade at the end of this year or the next? Couldn't blame him, I would not want to play for the rabble that is the MFC either.

  On 23/08/2015 at 10:48, Clint Bizkit said:

Even if in return we could get a good midfielder?

Tmac takes a lot of marks from opposition kicks as being a good reader of the play and gets to contests to spoil effectively. When he marks there should be someone sprinting past for a handball receive.

From what little I watched of the game yesterday Grimes was ball watching rather than going in to win it. Yes, I know he wasn't alone.

  On 23/08/2015 at 10:48, Clint Bizkit said:

Even if in return we could get a good midfielder?

TMac is a key position player who'll lead our defence for the next decade. We keep him.

  On 23/08/2015 at 23:46, DemonAndrew said:

I have a theory that whenever Grimes plays well we have a whole played badly - he's not the player you want having oodles of possessions as he's simply not a good enough user of the ball.

I maintain my dream trade scenario outlined above is still the dream...however unlikely it may be.

Also, what's all this about Hogan being likely to request a trade at the end of this year or the next? Couldn't blame him, I would not want to play for the rabble that is the MFC either.

When did the Hogan rumour start? Or is it just ongoing?

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:39, leucopogon said:

I want Watts, Garland, Howe, Lumumba, Bail, Grimes, McKenzie, Terlich and Toumpas gone.

You are just settling old scores and trying to justify the hate you had for a bloke that has pulled his finger out.

He was one that actually wasn't in Bali yesterday, why he gets added to your list only you know.

  On 23/08/2015 at 10:07, olisik said:

Trade Jack Watts for a second rounder. Just get it over n fucken done with

no not now, he is finally showing his willing.... that's the point from where we can work with him, & his desire to be the best he can will take him forward, with good strong coaching.

Watts stays for now, 11 will go at years end. This time next year is another story.

How [censored] poor is it that 2 years into the rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild, the delisting/trade thread is at 86 pages with 2 rounds still to play.

An absolute indictment on this club and playing group.

  On 23/08/2015 at 13:56, Lamashtu said:

Think Roos had a pretty telling comment in his post-match today. It would seem the conservative delistings the club intended is off the cards now. Looks like another 1/4 list exodus this off-season after today's effort.

Seems pretty clear that Roos and his coaches had a certain tolerance for poor performances over the first year, but those credits have been exhausted now. Would like to see a tangible response instead of just hot air from Roos.

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:00, AdamFarr said:

I just watched the presser. I must have missed that. I couldn't hear any of the questions. Did he mention list changes? It's possible there could be 10 or so, but we'd wanna be bringing in B graders at least, otherwise there's almost no point.

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:12, Lamashtu said:

Roos: "You're looking at habits and patterns... clearly there's patterns we've identified. What's the result of that? It's fairly obvious what happens. Melbourne people are sick of the same excuses. They'd come and expect more from the first half."

On the scars of the past: "I don't really care what it is, anymore, to be honest. It's just about performance. We've got to improve our performance as a footy club, and while I was sympathetic to the club and where it's been, the coaching group has been here for long enough now that it's not about where we've been and more about where we're going."

this is the culture of the leaders I've been banging on about for the last 5 years.

the leaders learn't it from their peers when they started, its a hand me down culture of entitlement the players learn, & from us as well... the ones they rub shoulders with...

........... this kills off any warrior spirit; & makes for spoilt soft play. > they do not like getting their hands dirty or sore.

we have to remove the old infected ones firstly, then the more recent ones, who have the bug as well.. changing a culture is also in the other areas of the club, surrounding the players... the players aren't born with the infection & do not arrive with it mostly,,, it's most caught & incubated within our walls.

getting rid of it is very very difficult.

& the club must move its base away from the 'G'. to be able to sustain the cleanliness.

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:12, Lamashtu said:

Roos: "You're looking at habits and patterns... clearly there's patterns we've identified. What's the result of that? It's fairly obvious what happens. Melbourne people are sick of the same excuses. They'd come and expect more from the first half."

On the scars of the past: "I don't really care what it is, anymore, to be honest. It's just about performance. We've got to improve our performance as a footy club, and while I was sympathetic to the club and where it's been, the coaching group has been here for long enough now that it's not about where we've been and more about where we're going."

your sounding like giving up lama

its not about giving up on transition,,, its about learning whats causing the issues which in turn caused that '186' & other heavy losses.

going back to the start, = the soft cushy ways of entitlement that breeds happily around our club, its a really happy & lazy, easygoing, casual way around football, where losing doesn't matter so much, its a part of the wallpaper. Its money and fun after the game, that's the bees knees.

....the antidote to this is what was killed off, when 'they' removed Smithy, & Barass had left... so we returned to Pre checker ways of football.

we all have to shift this club back into a really fired up fierce mentality of on-field football.

you can see this current soft pathetic way that has had our clubs mentality grasped in it's hand, by the proverbial hangers: is eating into Jones's soul, with his frustration, its pulling even him down, as we watch on...

  On 23/08/2015 at 23:46, DemonAndrew said:

I have a theory that whenever Grimes plays well we have a whole played badly - he's not the player you want having oodles of possessions as he's simply not a good enough user of the ball.

I maintain my dream trade scenario outlined above is still the dream...however unlikely it may be.

Also, what's all this about Hogan being likely to request a trade at the end of this year or the next? Couldn't blame him, I would not want to play for the rabble that is the MFC either.

you mean he's a wicketkeeper, not a Dennis Lillee ?

the club nature is that, like a wicketkeeper... we have to change this direction & outcomes; if we are to become winners... this is the 'checker spirit'.

...... percy page imported it > checker hughes > norm smith > ron barassi >

alan jeans had the spirit, kevin sheedy had the spirit, leigh matthews had the spirit, alastair clarkson has the spirit,

the northern stand nature is that of the fuscia

Edited August 24, 20159 yr by dee-luded

Those were direct quotes from Roosy, dee-luded.

Geeze I hope that the day after the F&B night the club comes out with a statement and the axe is put through at least 10 or 11 from the list.

  On 23/08/2015 at 13:56, Lamashtu said:

Think Roos had a pretty telling comment in his post-match today. It would seem the conservative delistings the club intended is off the cards now. Looks like another 1/4 list exodus this off-season after today's effort.

Seems pretty clear that Roos and his coaches had a certain tolerance for poor performances over the first year, but those credits have been exhausted now. Would like to see a tangible response instead of just hot air from Roos.

Starting at the selection table this week.

Frankly don't care who comes in but those who are not our future can go out. Get some runners. Fitzy can run - put him on the wing or in the guts even.

Edited August 24, 20159 yr by monoccular

  On 23/08/2015 at 13:56, Lamashtu said:

Think Roos had a pretty telling comment in his post-match today. It would seem the conservative delistings the club intended is off the cards now. Looks like another 1/4 list exodus this off-season after today's effort.

Seems pretty clear that Roos and his coaches had a certain tolerance for poor performances over the first year, but those credits have been exhausted now. Would like to see a tangible response instead of just hot air from Roos.

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:57, Lamashtu said:

Two weeks ago we hadn't lost to the Bulldogs by nearly 100 points and Carlton by 4 goals. I guarantee the goalposts have shifted for our list management.

Just wait until Freo destroy us next week and we suffer another humiliating defeat vs GWS to cap off the season. It's become increasingly obvious that there is a deep-seeded toxic culture embedded in parts of our playing group and clearly the coaches have had enough of the excuses. They were given an internal and public kick up the ass after last week's embarrassment then completely blew it against the worst team in the comp.

If we're resorting to knee jerk decisions based on the last few weeks' performances, we haven't improved off field at all.

I've never been a great fan of Paul Roos's on field coaching. I think his game style is still "too 2005" when 10 years later the rest of the AFL has moved on. However, I am a great supporter of his off field work. Introducing professional player development, talent spotting and personal growth are the things I believe he's introduced which have been lacking for decades.

I'd be very surprised if such a considered approach is thrown out the window now. There may well be a large number of changes at the end of the year - but I'd be willing to suggest those decisions have been planned over the course of the last three years, not the last couple of weeks.

  On 24/08/2015 at 01:59, Dr. Mubutu said:

How [censored] poor is it that 2 years into the rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild, the delisting/trade thread is at 86 pages with 2 rounds still to play.

An absolute indictment on this club and playing group.

Or maybe the stupidity of its supporter group...

  On 24/08/2015 at 06:01, Mach5 said:

Or maybe the stupidity of its supporter group...

I would have thought it's a reflection of supporter loyalty Machsy,.... sorry Mach5. Hence, the word support.

  On 24/08/2015 at 04:14, Lamashtu said:

Those were direct quotes from Roosy, dee-luded.

huh?

  On 23/08/2015 at 14:39, leucopogon said:

I want Watts, Garland, Howe, Lumumba, Bail, Grimes, McKenzie, Terlich and Toumpas gone.

I want all of these gone, except for Grimes, Lumumba and Grimes.

  On 24/08/2015 at 06:01, Mach5 said:

Or maybe the stupidity of its supporter group...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............