• 2 Nathan Jones
• 3 Clint Bartram
• 4 Jack Watts
• 5 Jordan Gysberts
• 6 Matthew Bate
• 7 Jamie Bennell
• 8 James Frawley
• 9 Jack Trengove (c)
• 10 Cale Morton
• 11 Mitch Clark
• 12 Colin Sylvia
• 13 Jordie McKenzie
• 14 Lynden Dunn
• 15 Ricky Petterd
• 16 Jack Grimes (c)
• 17 Sam Blease
• 18 Brad Green
• 19 James Strauss
• 20 Colin Garland

• 21 Lucas Cook
• 22 Brent Moloney
• 24 Liam Jurrah
• 25 Tom McDonald
• 30 James Sellar
• 34 Stefan Martin
• 35 Luke Tapscott
• 36 Aaron Davey
• 37 Max Gawn
• 38 Jeremy Howe
• 39 Neville Jetta
• 40 Mark Jamar
• 41 Troy Davis
• 42 Jake Spencer
• 43 Rory Taggert
• 44 Rohan Bail
• 46 Josh Tynan
• 48 Jack

I don't buy the excuse of the past anymore. The 2012 list above has been significantly turned over and we've added experience and young talent.

Of those remaining, some are our best players, some are our leaders, some didn't even play on Saturday.

It's the supporters that bare the scares, time Roosy started to look for a different excuse.

If we break up the list and excuse,

Captain: Jones

VC: Dunn

2015 All Aust: McDonald

Most Improved: Jetta

At season's end we delist or trade the remaining.

Watts

Grimes

Garland

Howe

Jamar

Spencer

Bail

Fitzpatrick

Gawn*

Trengove*

Mckenzie*

*did not play Saturday.

In the mean time, play the young kids and stop blaming the past!

Are you blokes serious?

When PR took over we were a 2 win 55% team. If it wasn't for the expansion teams our win/loss and percentage would have been worse. In fact the expansion teams somewhat hid how crap we were as they were the only teams we could beat. Problem was they got better and we remained a disgrace. How long do you think it takes to turn this ship around? He has only been around for just over a season and a bit, give him a break.

I'd love to see you experts do better.

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by Wormburner

Are you blokes serious?

When PR took over we were a 2 win 55% team. If it wasn't for the expansion teams our win/loss and percentage would have been worse. In fact the expansion teams somewhat hid how crap we were as they were the only teams we could beat. Problem was they got better and we remained a disgrace. How long do you think it takes to turn this ship around? He has only been around for just over a season and a bit, give him a break.

I'd love to see you experts do better.

Totally agree.

Roos is sifting through [censored] that has piled up for almost ten years. He's had one and a third seasons to turn it around and has markedly improved the side from before he was with us. I can understand everyone wanting a quick fix but we are getting better, there's no doubt about it. There is still the issue of the players 'knowing' how to win.

Jones made a comment last year about the side becoming instinctive together and knowing when the momentum is beginning to shift in a game, and knowing what to do. They are clearly still learning this and it doesn't help with a lot of the core players out.

We are getting there and it is due to Paul Roos.

Are you blokes serious?

When PR took over we were a 2 win 55% team. If it wasn't for the expansion teams our win/loss and percentage would have been worse. In fact the expansion teams somewhat hid how crap we were as they were the only teams we could beat. Problem was they got better and we remained a disgrace. How long do you think it takes to turn this ship around? He has only been around for just over a season and a bit, give him a break.

I'd love to see you experts do better.

Are you actually reading the posts, or are you doing what others seem to be which is throwing a blanket over them marked "Paul Roos criticism: BAD"?

Yeah, we pretty much all back in Roos. He's a premiership coach and a damn good one. More importantly, we have no choice but to back him in.

If he says or does something I disagree with, I'm going to question it, or at the very least, question the motivation behind it. The oft repeated line about ghosts of the past is a get out clause. Looking at the team fielded on Saturday, you'd be lucky if it could even apply to a third of them. As I asid, the motivation could well be preparing an argument for delisting/trading players already in his sights.

We weren't good enough, that's the reason. Players aren't missing targets because 186 is running through their mind.

We still have a massive gap between our youngest and most experienced.

Hogan

Salem

Watts

Toumpas

Viney

Trengove

Brayshaw

Tyson

Stretch

Kent

Frost

Newton

JKH

McDonald

Pettracca

Jetta

Spencer

They are all under 25 and have all played under 100 games, yet all them bar Newton and Stretch are walk-ups and would all be in the 22 if they were fit. That's 17 of 22 players on game day.

The problem is that the experience group, the ones that should be leading us to "turn the corner", continually fail when we come up against better opposition.

Dunn

Lumumba

Vince

N Jones

As soon as they are taken out of the game, we completely break down. You can't expect Brayshaw to win us games of football, or Garlett or Hogan to kick 10.

Yeah we've turned over 50% of the list but the main culprits of our biggest downturns are still hanging on. Trying hard, going through the motions and getting B&F votes don't matter anymore. We need more from blokes with 100+ games of experience. Roos doesn't need to tell Jones or Vince how to play football. Why is Jones getting smashed by kids with 40 games experience? Why is Vince? It's not a coaching issue.

The same problems exist and have since Geelong 186 and it's very clear now that this isn't a coaching issue. It just can't be.

I seriously think that what we saw on the weekend at at times this year will remain so long as we have players from the Daniher and Bailey years still on the list. That is a very harsh reality that some here need to realise.

I'm downgrading my expectations for the year now. I had 8-10 wins in mind but we'll struggle to win 6, which would still be a pass, but not ideal.

The Saints have a gun midfield with some true young talent in there that rips up the opposition. Can we beat them? Can we beat Brisbane? Carlton might be the only sure bet.

Well said Praha

Experienced players from the dark 186 days stil need to be delisted

They will only beat mediocre sides

Savage cuts at years end

Last saturday proved it

16 goals to 2 after being in TOTAL control earlier.

He needs to instil confidence, I don't know if alluding to blokes losing their jobs will do that...

With that said - he has a different audience when on TV to when he is on the training track.

The blokes need to have confidence in themselves and their teammates to run and spread and be bold and they have that for 40 minutes and then don't for an hour...

It's progress that they have it at all but the fits and starts and hard to take for us supporters - we have been sucker punched a few times with it.

It isn't a lack of effort - it's a lack of self-belief and trust - and it disappears so quickly it is obviously an elusive mystery to Roos.

I'm not so sure why it is hard to understand that we have players on our list that aren't good enough.

I'm not so sure why it is hard to understand that we have players on our list that aren't good enough.

The galling part is that the team can perform for a half and then get smashed for a half.

The galling part is that the team can perform for a half and then get smashed for a half.

yup - whether it is lack of talent or lack of intestinal fortitude/mental toughness - not good enough is not good enough.

I will go very early on Brayshaw - I am not sure whether he is super talented or not. What I am confident on is that he has the mental toughness required to be a top line footballer. He has shown in nearly all the games this year that whether we are winning or losing his intensity and effort rarely varies.

Undoubtedly we need talent, but if we have 20 players running around with Brayshaw's approach to the game you go a long way to winning.

yup - whether it is lack of talent or lack of intestinal fortitude/mental toughness - not good enough is not good enough.

I will go very early on Brayshaw - I am not sure whether he is super talented or not. What I am confident on is that he has the mental toughness required to be a top line footballer. He has shown in nearly all the games this year that whether we are winning or losing his intensity and effort rarely varies.

Undoubtedly we need talent, but if we have 20 players running around with Brayshaw's approach to the game you go a long way to winning.

Port probably say the same thing about Wines.

Love Brayshaw :D

Just want to know when you are going to follow your own advice on this thread and, ehm, "eat a bag"?

My argument was completely different to what others were saying. Some were questioning whether he could actually coach. I have no problems with his coaching, he has improved us significantly.

But my arguement is that when we lose he pulls out the same [censored] weak excuse only to cover his ass. We have turned over half the list since those dark days. When is he going to put his hand up and start taking responsibility for these losses?

I don't love Paul Roos, but I do respect him. He is intelligent, articulate, credible and commands respect from players, staff, the media and the football world. Our playing group may not have the respect of the football world, but Paul Roos gives the club a level of respect that we would not otherwise have. I can't think of anyone better than Paul Roos to coach this side. He provides reasons for the bad losses not excuses. Is he right? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. However, I can't say he is wrong or talking rubbish. Would it be any better without Roos - No. Could it be worse without Roos-Yes. I would prefer 5 years rather than 3, but that is the situation. At least with the current coaching staff and the succession plan we do have stability and a long term plan. We not longer have the media saying that the club is in a mess or in disarray. We have stability in our coaching staff and administration. That is required to achieve long term success on the playing field.

I'm not so sure why it is hard to understand that we have players on our list that aren't good enough.

It is staggering nutbean

How hard is it to see.

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by old dee

If posters are going to pot Roos for all the bad that still happens (usually by players he did not recruit) then he needs to be given credit for the good things, especially for the players he did recruit.

Jesse said it so well: "Angus has taken straight to (AFL), he's got that competitive edge. Christian Petracca and all the rest of (Melbourne's young players) have a red-hot crack and all the talent, so it's a very exciting prospect over the next couple of years."

yup - whether it is lack of talent or lack of intestinal fortitude/mental toughness - not good enough is not good enough.

I will go very early on Brayshaw - I am not sure whether he is super talented or not. What I am confident on is that he has the mental toughness required to be a top line footballer. He has shown in nearly all the games this year that whether we are winning or losing his intensity and effort rarely varies.

Undoubtedly we need talent, but if we have 20 players running around with Brayshaw's approach to the game you go a long way to winning.

Brayshaw is the prototype...just need about 10 of him

The natives are getting very restless. We all who the mental midgets are on our list and we are all powerless to anything about it.

It's the weak efforts, capitulation and putrid games we get belted in that continue to haunt supporters. It's just taking too long and the pace of improvement is the worst I have ever seen.

Our 1st and 2nd year players that are injured have already surpassed numerous spuds that have infested this football club. I think at least 8 will be removed at seasons end. And the club will be better for it

The natives are getting very restless. We all who the mental midgets are on our list and we are all powerless to anything about it.

It's the weak efforts, capitulation and putrid games we get belted in that continue to haunt supporters. It's just taking too long and the pace of improvement is the worst I have ever seen.

The problem Soidee is that we have to keep playing a lot of the same players and expecting a different result.

Look at the uninjured players who were not in the side on Saturday.

All are not AFL standard IMO.

So on Monday we will replace a few with similar players.

Result 15 goal loss.

Our 1st and 2nd year players that are injured have already surpassed numerous spuds that have infested this football club. I think at least 8 will be removed at seasons end. And the club will be better for it

I just hope they don't get Melbournised.

It is staggering nutbean

How hard is it to see.

I saw Paul Roos last week and he was bent over scratching around at his ankles.

I inquired as to what he was doing.

He said " I am trying to pull my socks up , alas, I don't seem to be wearing any".

hmmmmm...

He needs to instil confidence, I don't know if alluding to blokes losing their jobs will do that...

With that said - he has a different audience when on TV to when he is on the training track.

The blokes need to have confidence in themselves and their teammates to run and spread and be bold and they have that for 40 minutes and then don't for an hour...

It's progress that they have it at all but the fits and starts and hard to take for us supporters - we have been sucker punched a few times with it.

It isn't a lack of effort - it's a lack of self-belief and trust - and it disappears so quickly it is obviously an elusive mystery to Roos.

Boo hoo. As if the coach even needs to say that if they don't perform they'll lose their job.

It's very simple: play your role, and the rest will follow. Too many don't and they'll be gone. Tough cookies.

Boo hoo. As if the coach even needs to say that if they don't perform they'll lose their job.

It's very simple: play your role, and the rest will follow. Too many don't and they'll be gone. Tough cookies.

Did you kind of just glean or skim my post?

The above doesn't really follow...

He needs to instil confidence, I don't know if alluding to blokes losing their jobs will do that...

With that said - he has a different audience when on TV to when he is on the training track.

The blokes need to have confidence in themselves and their teammates to run and spread and be bold and they have that for 40 minutes and then don't for an hour...

It's progress that they have it at all but the fits and starts and hard to take for us supporters - we have been sucker punched a few times with it.

It isn't a lack of effort - it's a lack of self-belief and trust - and it disappears so quickly it is obviously an elusive mystery to Roos.

He managed to instill enough confidence in us to come back from a 100 point loss to beat the highly rated Dogs

Roos isn't the problem. We are so lucky to have him, and anyone who buys his media spin is a fool.

What he says publicly has no bearings on what he says privately to his players.

I'm not so sure why it is hard to understand that we have players on our list that aren't good enough.

No, it isn't hard to understand. It's patently obvious.

But do you also accept the reasoning that they are spooked by the past? Because that is essentially shifting blame.

Take responsibility. There are no excuses. If they're not good enough, that's the beginning and end of it.

I have a huge amount of respect for Roos. It's why I take more interest in what he says.

No, it isn't hard to understand. It's patently obvious.

But do you also accept the reasoning that they are spooked by the past? Because that is essentially shifting blame.

Take responsibility. There are no excuses. If they're not good enough, that's the beginning and end of it.

I have a huge amount of respect for Roos. It's why I take more interest in what he says.

Just an excuse to cover up lack of ability now P-man