It's the inability to show a probable capacity for anything else that should do it....if ones comfortably satisfied

Could hirds ridiculous accusations come back and bite him hard in the way of further punishment?

It's the inability to show a probable capacity for anything else that should do it....if ones comfortably satisfied

Let's hope so.

Hird's gone too far this time surely. He is implying that ASADA was determined to prosecute EFC to the point of destroying evidence which proved them innocent. Quite a claim - should only appeal to the delusional.

Does this delusional psychopath really expect anyone to believe that he would hand over the only copies of documents that could be used to clear his name? Really? How naïve does he think we are? He has numerous lawyers, and one at home. And "oh, I gave the only copy to ASADA who then destroyed it so they can get at me"! Paranoid delusions.

And, anyway, just because a spreadsheet may have Thymomodulin, or Thymosin, or Vitamin C isn't evidence. Would anyone be stupid enough to put "Growth Hormone" on a spreadsheet if one was using it?

Hird's gone too far this time surely. He is implying that ASADA was determined to prosecute EFC to the point of destroying evidence which proved them innocent. Quite a claim - should only appeal to the delusional.

A bizarre claim by HIrd. He sure looked rattled and deflated on 360...there was a little defiance but that air of invincibility was gone...knows his goose is cooked, perhaps.

I reckon that's what it was you know, a desperate deflection, he knew the 360 interview made him look bad, he needed something to take attention off that

Great news!

Essendon FC does have information about its supplements program after all.

Now if only Mr Hird can remember which computer this information was stored on he may be saved.

Does this delusional psychopath really expect anyone to believe that he would hand over the only copies of documents that could be used to clear his name? Really? How naïve does he think we are? He has numerous lawyers, and one at home. And "oh, I gave the only copy to ASADA who then destroyed it so they can get at me"! Paranoid delusions.

And, anyway, just because a spreadsheet may have Thymomodulin, or Thymosin, or Vitamin C isn't evidence. Would anyone be stupid enough to put "Growth Hormone" on a spreadsheet if one was using it?

You make a good point ... how accurate would the records be anyway? They could have put anything down (with nothing incriminating of course) However, it's my bet that they just didn't think they'd ever get caught and the records were incriminating - so they either got rid of them or they're in safe keeping. Or Dank has them.

Alavi (the South Yarra compound chemist) may well hold the key here - unlike Dank & Charters, he hasn't become an unreliable source or witness over time. The paper trail which could nail Essendon would almost certainly need to include Alavi so the CAS just need to find a way for him to give evidence. The dominoes may fall from there.

You'd reckon that the CAS are going to need something reasonably substantial to get a guaranteed favourable outcome. However, they might have something else up their sleeve anyway - maybe some new evidence that only they know about.

D2014/anyone is it an appeal only relayed to TB4 or does it also review everything that may have occurred?

Hird's gone too far this time surely. He is implying that ASADA was determined to prosecute EFC to the point of destroying evidence which proved them innocent. Quite a claim - should only appeal to the delusional.

What? So they gave ASADA a copy of the spreadsheet and didn't keep the original (or a copy)???? And then ASADA destroyed the only evidence there was.

Now that is feasible. Damn ASADA.

FMD these EFC muppets must be stupid if they are trying to run that line.

D2014/anyone is it an appeal only relayed to TB4 or does it also review everything that may have occurred?

Everything. Starting from scratch.

the EFC were [censored]-a-hoop that the AFL/ASADA investigation only was about TB4. All the other stuff was taken up by the AFL's $2m fine for governance and record keeping.

WADA are looking at everything again including I assume AOD9604.

D2014/anyone is it an appeal only relayed to TB4 or does it also review everything that may have occurred?

You would think it could only have to do with the original charges, which relate to use of TB4. Any other charges or issues would need to go through the whole process from the start.

Everything. Starting from scratch.

the EFC were [censored]-a-hoop that the AFL/ASADA investigation only was about TB4. All the other stuff was taken up by the AFL's $2m fine for governance and record keeping.

WADA are looking at everything again including I assume AOD9604.

Not sure WADA could rule on charges that have not been laid and been subject to the required process.

What? So they gave ASADA a copy of the spreadsheet and didn't keep the original (or a copy)???? And then ASADA destroyed the only evidence there was.

Now that is feasible. Damn ASADA.

FMD these EFC muppets must be stupid if they are trying to run that line.

This is my second best explanation on how the spreadsheet went missing.

The injection data was kept in a spreadsheet file that was never backup or saved. When Mr Hird went on his 12 months all expensed paid holiday, he turned off the computer to reduce the Clubs power bill.

Gerard W has certainly changed his stance in the past 48 hrs compared to his pro Essendon bias of the past few years. Tonight he opened with facts he was given from a source with intimate knowledge of the investigation, in reference to Hirds interview last night and the said "spreadsheet" in particular - points of note......among others -

- There was No spreadsheet to match the description Hird made reference to on the show last night

- The spreadsheet they do have was commenced in the middle of year .....peptide programme had long already been in operation by then.

- The spreadsheet did not quantify injectables

- Internal EFC Email regarding thymoddulin surfaced well into the year, again, well after the program started.

The other thing to consider is that all or some of the 34 players might know that records were kept. Or they might have assumed that records were going to kept considering they were injected hundreds of times.

First of all, they all agreed to be injected on numerous occasions (albeit signing waver forms as part of the injection program) ... then they may or may not have been told that the substances were "close to the edge" (and we all know what that means)

As a player, you'd have to assume that records would have been kept ... or to put it another way, you wouldn't assume that they wouldn't keep records. You can imagine Dank (or whoever else was conducting the injections) writing notes or entering information as the players were being injected - like, on the spot.

So why aren't the players demanding that the records be produced? The answer is a very simple one in my opinion. Why would they want to possibly incriminate themselves?

If they truly are victims as they're being portrayed, I'm not sure that they are acting as victims normally would ... although Hal Hunter seems to be.

.

An interesting update on the appeal:

-David Grace, QC...is required to recuse himself from the formal proceedings under Court of Arbitration for Sport rules.

-WADA has eight more days to submit its brief to the players’ lawyers, who will then have 20 days to respond.

-It emerged on Wednesday that any player wanting to end the saga and do a deal with ASADA had missed their opportunity.

-The saga is now tipped to drag on into 2016, overshadowing a fourth AFL season.

-Several other Australian CAS arbitrators have had involvement in the Essendon saga, likely ruling them out them from sitting in judgment on the matter. Malcolm Holmes, QC, Neil Young, QC, Hayden Opie,Brian Collis, QC.

-...CAS official Katy Hogg told the Herald Sun CAS can subpoena witnesses but warned of more local court action.

“If they refuse to collaborate, the CAS, like any arbitral tribunal in the world, would be obliged to seek the assistance of the competent state courts to have them testify,” Hogg said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/david-grace-qc-unable-to-represent-essendon-players-against-world-anti-doping-agency/story-fni5f6kv-1227353891389

Better order heaps of that popcorn BB, it is going to be a long wait.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hirds-distorted-thinking-evident-once-again-as-wada-appeals-essendon-decision-20150512-gh01xv.html

Caro sticks the boots in

on an unrelated note - anyone who doesnt like WADA or ASADA (whatever you think of their competence or lack of it) is effectively pro drugs in sport. When i read comments on the herald sun website along the lines of "they are hopeless and a waste of government money", i wonder if that person really wants their sport full of drugs.
the prospect of the AFL commission choosing to walk away from the WADA code sickens me. If they did choose to do that, the backlash on them from the average supporter i hope would be significant - certainly it would pretty much kill my interest in football.

In regards to Hird's claims that ASADA destroyed records:

Disclosure would have been served on the EFC, they would have had a copy of all documents that ASADA would have or were going to use as evidence.

The EFC would have made or had copies of the records that Hird alluded to which he claims ASADA destroyed.

Any seized documents would have been seized with an EFC official present, these documents would have been placed onto some form of exhibits log with a copy being supplied to the EFC.

Hird is digging himself a hole that will be too deep to climb out of.

In regards to Hird's claims that ASADA destroyed records:

Disclosure would have been served on the EFC, they would have had a copy of all documents that ASADA would have or were going to use as evidence.

The EFC would have made or had copies of the record hay Hird has alleged ASADA possibly destroyed.

Hird is digging himself a hole that will be too deep to climb out of.

delicious isn't it, too clever by half lol

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hirds-distorted-thinking-evident-once-again-as-wada-appeals-essendon-decision-20150512-gh01xv.html

Caro sticks the boots in

on an unrelated note - anyone who doesnt like WADA or ASADA (whatever you think of their competence or lack of it) is effectively pro drugs in sport. When i read comments on the herald sun website along the lines of "they are hopeless and a waste of government money", i wonder if that person really wants their sport full of drugs.

the prospect of the AFL commission choosing to walk away from the WADA code sickens me. If they did choose to do that, the backlash on them from the average supporter i hope would be significant - certainly it would pretty much kill my interest in football.

Has the AFL become so self absorbed in its own interests that walking away from WADA is a serious option?

If that did happen, I for one would lose all interest in AFL football.

As I have no time for Drug Cheaters in any sport, especially one I have an emotional attachment to.

Has the AFL become so self absorbed in its own interests that walking away from WADA is a serious option?

If that did happen, I for one would lose all interest in AFL football.

As I have no time for Drug Cheaters in any sport, especially one I have an emotional attachment to.

not sure but this paragraph from caro reads as if they will discuss it?

The AFL, too, remained in the dark regarding details of the WADA appeal, which comes as terrible news for the game and which has angered key league bosses. It came as a surprise but not a shock to the AFL and will lead inevitably to an angry internal review of its partnership with WADA, a partnership born in acrimony and only after significant pressure had come from the federal government. It is difficult to see the AFL going rogue in an Australian sporting context and walking away from the world anti-doping body, but that will be a subject of debate at the commission table.

but yeah, id be out. epic deal breaker for mine.

In regards to Hird's claims that ASADA destroyed records:

Hird is digging himself a hole that will be too deep to climb out of.

I really think Hird had a major brain fade when he made that claim, perhaps accidently. The records and documents were handed over to Deloitte's (a major, highly reputable accounting/audit firm) on behalf of AFL/ASADA. They would also have copies. Hird knows all this. He put mouth into gear before the brain and will surely regret making that claim. He is stoking a bear that is already at raging point. Foolish man.

not sure but this paragraph from caro reads as if they will discuss it?

but yeah, id be out. epic deal breaker for mine.

What scares me is that anyone besides the Essendon FC would even think of such action.

Has the AFL become so self absorbed in its own interests that walking away from WADA is a serious option?

If that did happen, I for one would lose all interest in AFL football.

As I have no time for Drug Cheaters in any sport, especially one I have an emotional attachment to.

The issue the AFL have got is they probably have to wait until all this is over (unless they do opt out or restructure their current agreement with WADA in the meantime)

But if we assume they wait until all this is over, much will depend on whether there is a guilty or not guilty verdict anyway.

And then there's the penalties involved if there is a guilty verdict. And what if the public sentiment sways away from where it sits currently (if the details of the case paints the Essendon players in a different light)

There's still a lot to be played out yet. The AFL are almost duty bound to stay with the current agreement for the foreseeable future (in my opinion)