Really? I don't remember. Can you recall which game it might have been?

I don't remember exactly to be honest. Pretty sure it was 2013. I could be wrong, I just have a memory of it being tried once.

I thought [Pedersen] had a good year last year, thought he would be automatic for the starting 22 this year. Can someone comment on whether he's lost form, been injured or where he's at? Would love to see him produce more of his best from last year.

Pedersen is great to have for depth in case one of Hogan, Watts or Dawes gets injured or needs a week off.

They go into every game with a plan, it's whether they can execute it successfully that is the issue

I disagree. I think last year Roos went into games with the sole objective of restricting the opposition scoring. This year, I believe that he's picking a team that gives us the best opportunity to win, which means that players that don't impact the game, aren't getting selected (McKenzie, Bail, Grimes, M.Jones). He's playing players who have some football smarts and X factor ahead of the "try hards" who were getting a game last year.

As an aside, I'm looking forward to the Vince/Fyfe match up. Despite his boyish looks, Fyfe has got a short fuse, so Bernie may be able to get under his skin. Fyfe is an absolute gun, so unless Bernie can quell him to an average game, I can't see us getting close to Freo.

Edited April 28, 201510 yr by mo64

""We need to find out if Toumpas can play at senior level""'

I think we already know !

""We need to find out if Toumpas can play at senior level""'

I think we already know !

We already do know: Yes, he can!

He is at Casey to gain confidence.

Then he will show all the naysayers.

I reckon Sandi is so much better as a tap ruckman than any of our blokes that trying to beat him at his own game is a waste of time. I reckon you bring in Pedersen and tell him to rove off Sandi's taps, or smash the first Freo midfielder that touches it, or create a lane for Bernie Vince / Jeremy Howe to go third-man-up.

Sandi is so dominant that I reckon the best response to is give him the ruck for free and have an extra player on the ground at every stoppage.

I think that this is a very good plan takes Sandi out of the equation may just work

Out: Kent, Jetta.

In: Grimes, Toumpas for sub. (Brayshaw, Michie on field)

Out: Kent, Jetta.

In: Grimes, Toumpas for sub. (Brayshaw, Michie on field)

Yep agree with this. Posted elsewhere that we'll lose the battle with Sandilands regardless, so focus on being better at ground level, try to read his taps.

OUT: Kent, Jetta

IN: Terlich, Matty Jones

Terlich rarely beaten in one on ones and Mat Jones speed and tackling is superior to Bail or Toumpas

I hope the coach doesnt play Grimes and Toumpas wont be anywhere near as effective

They go into every game with a plan, it's whether they can execute it successfully that is the issue

Fair enough. They would plan in a general sense - in the past 2 games they've clearly been trying to move the ball quickly, to play thru the corridor, to kick long unless there's a definite short option. They'd never go in without any plan or purpose.

Their stoppage work seems to be better organised too. In the past 2 matches there's been far less of the spectacle of 3 Demons going for the ball at a stoppage, while 1 opponent gets the ball out to a teammate and we're chasing. Or expecting Jones to win the disputed ball in heavy traffic and then get a clearance. They seem to be working as a team within the team, and combining better.

That was enough against Tiges, but it won't be enough against Freo. We'll need a specific plan to avoid getting smashed at stoppages, possibly without Tyson, one of our best clearance players. Lyon will tighten up the corridor so we won't be able to use it as easily as we did last game, so we'll need to plan to move the ball quickly with a more congested corridor, or we'll just end up getting strangled the whole match. Freo's forwards will put our backs under more pressure so it will be harder to launch attacks from half back while having to counter their dangerous forwards.

So that's what I mean when I say that if we take this like any other game, it could get ugly. Our only chance of beating Freo is to plan specifically for where we are at risk of falling apart.

I disagree. I think last year Roos went into games with the sole objective of restricting the opposition scoring. This year, I believe that he's picking a team that gives us the best opportunity to win, which means that players that don't impact the game, aren't getting selected (McKenzie, Bail, Grimes, M.Jones). He's playing players who have some football smarts and X factor ahead of the "try hards" who were getting a game last year.

As an aside, I'm looking forward to the Vince/Fyfe match up. Despite his boyish looks, Fyfe has got a short fuse, so Bernie may be able to get under his skin. Fyfe is an absolute gun, so unless Bernie can quell him to an average game, I can't see us getting close to Freo.

I think that is a plan....it might not be a winning plan or a plan you like but it is still a plan.

OUT: Kent, Jetta

IN: Terlich, Matty Jones

Terlich rarely beaten in one on ones and Mat Jones speed and tackling is superior to Bail or Toumpas

I hope the coach doesnt play Grimes and Toumpas wont be anywhere near as effective

I follow your argument regarding Terlich over Grimes to fill for Jetta this week, however I feel that it might be hard to overlook the past co-captain when you are filling a backline position. As regards a replacement for Kent, I don't think that it is merely a case of speed and ability to tackle because Kent also knew how to find the goals. I suspect that Bail and Toumpas both shade Jones on this score.

I think Matt Jones is more than capable of playing Kent's role at half-forward. He could be used somewhat defensively to limit the run of Suban, Ibbotson, Pearce, Mzungu, etc.

Edited April 28, 201510 yr by Brayshaw Self

I think Matt Jones is more than capable of playing Kent's role at half-forward. He could be used somewhat defensively to limit the run of Suban, Ibbotson, Pearce, Mzungu, etc.

I'm not sure he's a good enough tackle, it's where Bail has the edge.

Could Howe ruck in the middle? Surely his leap and reading of a ball in flight could allow him to at least compete against Sandi (who can barely jump off the ground) in centre bounces at least so that he gets an unimpeded run and jump at the ball up. Jamar/Spencer/Dawes can ruck around the ground where body strength is needed.

Worth a punt?

Terlich rarely beaten in one on ones and Mat Jones speed and tackling is superior to Bail or Toumpas

Seriously?

Thank god you're not selecting. You can't see past your own biases.

Jones and Terlich are the turnover kings.

Dockers are reported as injury free, with a full list to choose from and even Ballantyne back.

Could Howe ruck in the middle? Surely his leap and reading of a ball in flight could allow him to at least compete against Sandi (who can barely jump off the ground) in centre bounces at least so that he gets an unimpeded run and jump at the ball up. Jamar/Spencer/Dawes can ruck around the ground where body strength is needed.

Worth a punt?

No, he wouldn't get the chance to leap. An experienced ruck would push him from the flight easily, it's much more than just leaping at the ball in the middle.

Body strength is needed in the middle as well as around the ground since the circle came in. In days past Jeff White could run and leap, it doesn't happen any more.

Dockers are reported as injury free, with a full list to choose from and even Ballantyne back.

...and Silvia

No, he wouldn't get the chance to leap. An experienced ruck would push him from the flight easily, it's much more than just leaping at the ball in the middle.

Body strength is needed in the middle as well as around the ground since the circle came in. In days past Jeff White could run and leap, it doesn't happen any more.

I love the idea of it haha (even though it likely wouldn't work as you have pointed out).

Terlich gets lost too easily, does a tom mcdonald run from defense, turns the ball over and cant find his man, he is hard though (like pig dog).

Who in our VFL side is actually a very good kick of the ball?? is anyone?

Bring that person in.

How recognised is Clarke as a ruckman? How much more than Griffiths?

Agree, stick with Dawes as 2nd ruck - we're much more balanced with that set-up.

Seriously?

Thank god you're not selecting. You can't see past your own biases.

Jones and Terlich are the turnover kings.

At least they make the contest and win the pill What biases are you speaking about BinK?

No, he wouldn't get the chance to leap. An experienced ruck would push him from the flight easily, it's much more than just leaping at the ball in the middle.

Body strength is needed in the middle as well as around the ground since the circle came in. In days past Jeff White could run and leap, it doesn't happen any more.

I'm not so sure. This is from the AFL rules for ruck contests

Law 15.4.5 (f) A Field Umpire shall award a free kick against a player who makes prohibited contact with an opposition player by unduly pushing, bumping, holding or blocking whilst contesting a bounce, throw up or boundary throw in.

Free Kick -

• Straight arm block preventing opponent contesting the ball
• Early leap making contact with opponent, then lands on ground and hits the football
• Crosses the centre circle line going past the flight of the football then makes contact with opponent
• Makes contact with opponent whilst not watching the football
• Obvious push, bump, block or hold
• Crosses the centre circle line before ball is bounced or thrown up
• Straight leg or foot - block

The bit in bold could work in Howe's favour. So if big Sandi tries to body Howe and prevent him from getting a leap at the centre bounce, that's a cut and dried free kick according to the laws of the game. Therefore, Howe has a chance to run and leap at the centre bounce. The only instance where he could be in trouble is a bad bounce that favours sandi getting an unimpeded run at it. In which case Howe can stay on the ground and act as a fourth midfielder to try and win the stoppage.

Probably never happen so this discussion is moot, but I'd be quite interested to see if it could work at some point. Obviously, we would not be using Howe around the ground except as a potential 3rd man up, but I'd rather he stay a kick behind play for intercept mark opportunities (much like Jeff White used to do in the good old days).

Edited April 28, 201510 yr by leucopogon

"try hards"

LOL, it sounds cruel, but I know what you mean. As annoyed as I am about our injury list, I'm actually positive about the fact that we are going to see at least 2 of: Toumpas, Grimes, Terlich, M.Jones, Bail, Pederson and Gawn out there this week. We are not currently the side that was getting poleaxed every week, we have some confidence and our system is working somewhat efficiently. We just might find that the 'try hards' look a whole lot better in this environment. At least it gives us some intel as to who will be discarded at the end of the year.

I'm not so sure. This is from the AFL rules for ruck contests

Law 15.4.5 (f) A Field Umpire shall award a free kick against a player who makes prohibited contact with an opposition player by unduly pushing, bumping, holding or blocking whilst contesting a bounce, throw up or boundary throw in.

Free Kick -

• Straight arm block preventing opponent contesting the ball
• Early leap making contact with opponent, then lands on ground and hits the football
• Crosses the centre circle line going past the flight of the football then makes contact with opponent
• Makes contact with opponent whilst not watching the football
• Obvious push, bump, block or hold
• Crosses the centre circle line before ball is bounced or thrown up
• Straight leg or foot - block

The bit in bold could work in Howe's favour. So if big Sandi tries to body Howe and prevent him from getting a leap at the centre bounce, that's a cut and dried free kick according to the laws of the game. Therefore, Howe has a chance to run and leap at the centre bounce. The only instance where he could be in trouble is a bad bounce that favours sandi getting an unimpeded run at it. In which case Howe can stay on the ground and act as a fourth midfielder to try and win the stoppage.

Probably never happen so this discussion is moot, but I'd be quite interested to see if it could work at some point. Obviously, we would not be using Howe around the ground except as a potential 3rd man up, but I'd rather he stay a kick behind play for intercept mark opportunities (much like Jeff White used to do in the good old days).

Trouble is what is written in the laws and how they are adjudicated are often very different things. There is still a lot of physical man on man stuff in centre bounces.

On another note, they seem to have relaxed the 1 mtr zone for boundary throw ins this year.