guess we find out today or tonight if the World body for drugs in sport is serious our not

Don't hold your breath.

WADA are possibly going to be hamstrung by the same issues that ASADA had ...

Witnesses won't talk, all records destroyed, players denying any wrongdoing, a governing body wanting to protect the brand and all the money etc etc

Somehow all that is ASADA or WADA's fault ... and they are the good guys!

But on a serious note if WADA choose not to appeal surely this would be a sign that ASADA simply did not have sufficiently compelling evidence to get a guilty finding, which calls into question their decision to run the case at all. And no i'm not an EFC/Hird apologist.

I read this on the weekend in The Age :

Fairfax Lawyer and Media columnist Darren Kane, analysing the case, recently said ASADA's case, which relied on "a dumpster full of circumstantial evidence such as emails, intercepted text messages, possibly bogus invoices, transcripts and newspaper scrapbooks" fell "so horrendously short of the mark".

This from someone representing Fairfax media, so pretty safe to say not an EFC/Hird apologist.

My gut feeling is there is still a big chance WADA will announce an appeal.

But it seems something will have change around if they are going to win that appeal.

WADA are possibly going to be hamstrung by the same issues that ASADA had ...

Witnesses won't talk, all records destroyed, players denying any wrongdoing, a governing body wanting to protect the brand and all the money etc etc

Somehow all that is ASADA or WADA's fault ... and they are the good guys!

But CAS are free to draw an entirely different set of conclusions from what ISNT said, if thats the situation. The Tribunal only seemed interested in what was forced down their throat !!

For a start , witnesses MUST attend or be in contempt. They must answer under oath and what they dont say may be as damning as what they do.

I imagine we'll hear something in about 10 hours times.. Would be about right for a 10 am presser in Montreal

I read this on the weekend in The Age :

Fairfax Lawyer and Media columnist Darren Kane, analysing the case, recently said ASADA's case, which relied on "a dumpster full of circumstantial evidence such as emails, intercepted text messages, possibly bogus invoices, transcripts and newspaper scrapbooks" fell "so horrendously short of the mark".

This from someone representing Fairfax media, so pretty safe to say not an EFC/Hird apologist.

My gut feeling is there is still a big chance WADA will announce an appeal.

But it seems something will have change around if they are going to win that appeal.

simply the nature under which it works !!

Time for Perry Mason!!

No chance of a Conservative Canadian and Australian Govt's both not wanting this to go any further due to financial considerations?

This from someone representing Fairfax media, so pretty safe to say not an EFC/Hird apologist.

i struggle over this statement

I read this on the weekend in The Age :

Fairfax Lawyer and Media columnist Darren Kane, analysing the case, recently said ASADA's case, which relied on "a dumpster full of circumstantial evidence such as emails, intercepted text messages, possibly bogus invoices, transcripts and newspaper scrapbooks" fell "so horrendously short of the mark".

This from someone representing Fairfax media, so pretty safe to say not an EFC/Hird apologist.

My gut feeling is there is still a big chance WADA will announce an appeal.

But it seems something will have change around if they are going to win that appeal.

I read that article last week, did little to convince me either way as the author ignores the fluid nature of the burden of proof. Yes he is right that it fell short of the mark at the AFL tribunal, but plenty of lawyers have come out and said that mark was way too high, and inconsistently applied.

I did note he was from Sydney and for some weird reason there seems to be a very pro Hird feeling from tinsel town. Maybe it has to do with the influence of the fool Jones on the radio!

I did note he was from Sydney and for some weird reason there seems to be a very pro Hird feeling from tinsel town. Maybe it has to do with the influence of the fool Jones on the radio!

Yeah, it's weird isn't it.

Whether it's Jones or not, I'm struggling to fathom why Sydney [the city, not the FC] has been more sympathetic to Hird than most other places.

Maybe they are anti ASADA, rather than pro Hird.

i struggle over this statement

Clearly there has been agendas both ways in the Melbourne media.

Caroline Wilson/The Age in one corner, Mark Robinson/Herald-Sun in the other corner.

People can talk conspiracies, bias vs free press, etc etc, but it's clearly been the case that The Age has taken an anti-Hird stance.

I wouldn't know Darren Kane if he stood up in my rice bubbles, but coming from the Fairfax camp I wouldn't have thought he'd be looking at things with a bias towards EFC.

Maybe it's the Essendon FC member in me coming out, but that's how I see things. Having said that, none of anything he writes, or Caro, or anyone changes my opinion on this matter.

Yeah, it's weird isn't it.

Whether it's Jones or not, I'm struggling to fathom why Sydney [the city, not the FC] has been more sympathetic to Hird than most other places.

Maybe they are anti ASADA, rather than pro Hird.

It may just be that they are anti ASADA, especially after they picked on some of the precious Thugby boys. They could just be more used to turning a blind eye to cheating in sport.

Clearly there has been agendas both ways in the Melbourne media.

Caroline Wilson/The Age in one corner, Mark Robinson/Herald-Sun in the other corner.

People can talk conspiracies, bias vs free press, etc etc, but it's clearly been the case that The Age has taken an anti-Hird stance.

I wouldn't know Darren Kane if he stood up in my rice bubbles, but coming from the Fairfax camp I wouldn't have thought he'd be looking at things with a bias towards EFC.

Maybe it's the Essendon FC member in me coming out, but that's how I see things. Having said that, none of anything he writes, or Caro, or anyone changes my opinion on this matter.

I am not sure I would say Fairfax has an anti Hird stance, at least any more than the HS is pro EFC. In fact, I would say Robbo is so far pro EFC that he has lost all credibility.

I am not sure I would say Fairfax has an anti Hird stance, at least any more than the HS is pro EFC. In fact, I would say Robbo is so far pro EFC that he has lost all credibility.

Agree...theres been quite a few sympathetic articles to the Essendon cause from the Aged. Its mainly Caro who's after Hird. Robbo and Warner make up the star idiots corner at teh little paper. Most others bounce along somewhere in between depending on what day of the week it is.

Masters and Lane have been somewhat straight forward in their views though.Just what is...is...and they they Essendon , more than Hird per se have something to answer for

Clearly there has been agendas both ways in the Melbourne media.

Caroline Wilson/The Age in one corner, Mark Robinson/Herald-Sun in the other corner.

People can talk conspiracies, bias vs free press, etc etc, but it's clearly been the case that The Age has taken an anti-Hird stance.

I wouldn't know Darren Kane if he stood up in my rice bubbles, but coming from the Fairfax camp I wouldn't have thought he'd be looking at things with a bias towards EFC.

Maybe it's the Essendon FC member in me coming out, but that's how I see things. Having said that, none of anything he writes, or Caro, or anyone changes my opinion on this matter.

apart from caro at the rage, i wouldn't characterise their coverage as particularly anti hird/essendon

even caro i thought backed off markedly the longer it went

the hun were unquestionably pro hird/essendon to the point of nausea

i struggle over this statement

You need to consume a lot of illegal substances to really understand it DC.

The more weird and strange the substances are the better.

Rohan Connolly at the Age does a very good impersonation as a Hird supporter...

You can never get away from the true believers Hire Reich supporters.

The place is infested with them including this thread.

You need to consume a lot of illegal substances to really understand it DC.

The more weird and strange the substances are the better.

I'll give you a chance to explain your comments.

If it's even hinting at the notion that me being an Essendon supporter means I'm into drugs, I will report you to the mods.

I, like most people theses days, have had friends/family deal with issues surrounding illicit drugs. It's no joking matter.

I was happy with the logical reply from daisycutter, but I'm struggling to interpret your comment.

I read this on the weekend in The Age :

Fairfax Lawyer and Media columnist Darren Kane, analysing the case, recently said ASADA's case, which relied on "a dumpster full of circumstantial evidence such as emails, intercepted text messages, possibly bogus invoices, transcripts and newspaper scrapbooks" fell "so horrendously short of the mark".

This from someone representing Fairfax media, so pretty safe to say not an EFC/Hird apologist.

My gut feeling is there is still a big chance WADA will announce an appeal.

But it seems something will have change around if they are going to win that appeal.

Sorry to disillusion you, but Kain has been intimately involved in the Hird campaign from the beginning. Just like Burnside. He is yet another Hird oculyte.

Sorry to disillusion you, but Kain has been intimately involved in the Hird campaign from the beginning. Just like Burnside. He is yet another Hird oculyte.

In what way 'Dees'?

In what way 'Dees'?

This is the original piece . . been posted previously . . biased if only in tone!

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/why-asadas-case-against-essendon-players-fell-apart-20150424-1mrc4l.html

This is the original piece . . been posted previously . . biased if only in tone!

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/why-asadas-case-against-essendon-players-fell-apart-20150424-1mrc4l.html

The question still stands though.

'Dees2014' stated that "Kain has been intimately involved in the Hird campaign from the beginning"

In what way? not arguing just wanting to know how he has been involved from the beginning. Was he on the Hird team of lawyers? Is he a mate of Hirds?

It would be good to have a frame of reference to read his opinion from.

But CAS are free to draw an entirely different set of conclusions from what ISNT said, if thats the situation. The Tribunal only seemed interested in what was forced down their throat !!

For a start , witnesses MUST attend or be in contempt. They must answer under oath and what they dont say may be as damning as what they do.

I imagine we'll hear something in about 10 hours times.. Would be about right for a 10 am presser in Montreal

So 'binman' could well be right if WADA doesn't appeal?

You're effectively saying that WADA still have a strong case and have no alternative but to appeal - for what's it's worth, I'm inclined to agree with you but what if there is information there that we're not privy to? (and possibly never be privy to)

binman and others with that side of the argument have made some good points all the way through and the other side of the argument has made some equally good points

In the end, it will come down to what level of burden of proof is needed. And there are no winners or losers.

Hopefully, we never see this sort of thing happen again.

btw it is only monday 2:09 AM in montreal

doubt there will be any announcement/non-announcement before early tomorrow morning