What about if we look like we are actually learning how to win?

If we bash up the Saints one week only to get flogged by the Hawks by 100 points the next I won't be happy. If we can keep our losses against the strong teams minimal, maybe even win a couple, or at least show that with some growth and experience we can knock them off soon that would be awesome.

The key is doing that consistently....the whole season.

Tyson, Salem, and Hogan consistently in the best....McDonald beating his man. Brayshaw and Stretch showing a bit.

Learning how to win should be learnt in the first week a player arrives at the club. This is how badly the MFC was run for decades up until 2 years ago. The whole team has got to gel otherwise individual efforts are all we will get. Roosy and PJ should be marked bloody hard because they know what it takes to reach the peak.

They would expect it.

Learning how to win should be learnt in the first week a player arrives at the club. This is how badly the MFC was run for decades up until 2 years ago. The whole team has got to gel otherwise individual efforts are all we will get. Roosy and PJ should be marked bloody hard because they know what it takes to reach the peak.

They would expect it.

Yeah mate.

I am [censored] off at my nine month old because he won't walk.

What a failure. Even when he tries to stand up, he keeps failing down. I am so sick of watching him grab on to stuff and try to take steps. he watches what I do and tries to emulate. Some would call that learning to walk or "progress". Not me, he is failing to walk.

Probably won't amount to anything.

Yeah mate.

I am [censored] off at my nine month old because he won't walk.

What a failure. Even when he tries to stand up, he keeps failing down. I am so sick of watching him grab on to stuff and try to take steps. he watches what I do and tries to emulate. Some would call that learning to walk or "progress". Not me, he is failing to walk.

Probably won't amount to anything.

Surely you can come up with a better retort than that Jabb

Our list of players are not brand new infants

Surely you can come up with a better retort than that Jabb

Our list of players are not brand new infants

Pretty fair analogy mate.

You are expecting our baby to get up and run.

I will be happy with "significant progress" and a bit of respect.

Our list was absolutely horrendous. We may have a list of players that are now capable of playing AFL standard football, let's see how that goes. I am looking forward to the season.

I wouldn't put a ceiling on what can be achieved but I certainly wouldn't consider 8 wins a bust. As i said in my first post on this thread it will be about the vibe.

I believe the following games, if all goes to planned, are winnable.

Highlighted are the games i think we should win

round 1 vs GCS

round 2 vs GWS

round 3 vs Crows

round 4 vs Richmond

round 8 vs bulldogs

round 9 vs Port

round 10 vs Collingwood

Round 11 vs Stkilda

Round14 vs WCE

Round 15 vs drug cheats

round 16 vs Lions

round 17 vs Stkilda

round 18 vs Collingwood

round 19 vs Norf

round 20 vs Bulldogs

round 21 vs Carlton

round 23 vs Giants

So 7 games i think we should be able to win, and the rest there is no excuse to not go close to winning if not win imo.

Looks like a very favorable draw for us. We match up VERY well against Richmond and we will take that win.

We've got Collingwood twice and that are also very beatable.

And come round 21 Carlton will be lumbering on the bottom of the ladder, that will be our biggest win of the year.

Looks like a very favorable draw for us. We match up VERY well against Richmond and we will take that win.

We've got Collingwood twice and that are also very beatable.

And come round 21 Carlton will be lumbering on the bottom of the ladder, that will be our biggest win of the year.

Also no reason why we cannot beat the Crows again!

I believe the following games, if all goes to planned, are winnable.

Highlighted are the games i think we should win

round 1 vs GCS

round 2 vs GWS

round 3 vs Crows

round 4 vs Richmond

round 8 vs bulldogs

round 9 vs Port

round 10 vs Collingwood

Round 11 vs Stkilda

Round14 vs WCE

Round 15 vs drug cheats

round 16 vs Lions

round 17 vs Stkilda

round 18 vs Collingwood

round 19 vs Norf

round 20 vs Bulldogs

round 21 vs Carlton

round 23 vs Giants

So 7 games i think we should be able to win, and the rest there is no excuse to not go close to winning if not win imo.

I agree with the above SPR

I fully expect to be 1 and six when we face up to the Dogs.

I am hoping we can get very close to the Tigers, and GWS

I agree with the above SPR

I fully expect to be 1 and six when we face up to the Dogs.

I am hoping we can get very close to the Tigers, and GWS

And i reckon that's about what the club will be expecting too, we really need some of the good young players to come on and we might be able to steal a few other the other games as well, but 7 games is a decent aim, i'd be disappointed if we lost those games.

Collingwood twice,I'm sure Prince Lumumba will be willing to share his inside info on how to beat them.

I agree with the above SPR

I fully expect to be 1 and six when we face up to the Dogs.

I am hoping we can get very close to the Tigers, and GWS

Well, I'm going to go against popular thought here and suggest that we will win against Port. We ran them close last year and I believe that with a half decent forward line and a back line that will actually be able to move the ball forward quickly, we are in with a real chance. Oh, and Toumpas will give Ollie an absolute toweling.

Pretty fair analogy mate.

You are expecting our baby to get up and run.

I will be happy with "significant progress" and a bit of respect.

Our list was absolutely horrendous. We may have a list of players that are now capable of playing AFL standard football, let's see how that goes. I am looking forward to the season.

I wouldn't put a ceiling on what can be achieved but I certainly wouldn't consider 8 wins a bust. As i said in my first post on this thread it will be about the vibe.

Fair comments. But our list isn't that bad now

I think they can play some good football if they all work as a team

A lot of the individuals have been moved on

8 wins is still around 40%

We have to AIM for higher. The pity and excuses are over...

Looking at the draw and assuming a reasonable run with injuries and a bit of improvement from us plus a couple of teams we can expect to slide, I rated us a while ago as probably finishing 10-12 on the ladder. I'd be pretty happy with that sort of range. Better than that and I would be thrilled, as I think would any Melbourne supporter. At this point though we need to find six teams to finish beneath us. Looking at what we now know, I can see the Saints, Bulldogs, Carlton and probably Essendon. There are a number of maybes as well in teams like GWS, Brisbane, Adelaide, Richmond and even West Coast given their injuries and retirements. If things were to pan out well for us then that range is very possible. I think I'll stick with 10-12 as a pass for the season.

More then 4 wins is a pass, end of sentence.

my only concern with how much we improve by is our ball movement towards our 50 remember we were in front 9 times in the last q last season even with how poor we were with that this to me is the biggest thing that sticks out for us to get more wins so lets say we go from poor in this area (2014) to at least standard, average or maybe even good who knows how far we can go

I think just general improvement across the group is what we can expect as we should with most preseasons. In terms of wins it's hard to put a number on it because many of the teams around us (bris, gws and gcs) probably have greater room for improvement and I could see those teams taking a bigger step forward next year than we do.

Teams like Carlton and the dogs will be around us however I rate the dogs kids a head of ours on a whole at this point but we don't know the affects of their unsettling preseason until a few years away. Will it cause instability and prevent the players to be properly developed like our kids from 07-10?

Even though we are losing roos I still feel he will leave the club in a better place than he arrived in terms of culture and the list quality. I think neeld realised we needed a rebuild of our list upon arriving but he was practically a nobody in coaching terms and in culling the list could only pick up recycled players. Comparatively roos did the same thing and because of his track record was able to attract proper players like Vince tyson

This is not how sporting groups or athletes operate.

Rubbish

Rubbish

solid argument

Things I'd like to see to give the club a pass mark for 2015:-

1. Beat a team and be able to walk away saying 'gee opposition x were really up for a fight today and didn't play that badly, but we were just really good'. Don't remember that happening too many times in the last 15 years.

2. Have zero matches where I feel like a want to get up an leave at the 5 minute mark of the first quarter because I believe our players are going at about 75% intensity vs. the 100% that their opponents go at. E.g:-

• vs WCE early last year. Disgrace.
• vs Geelong at the MCG this year. Embarrassingly submissive performance especially early.
• vs Essendon. Never seen a football team allow their opponents to do what they please like we did in the first half of that game. Had that been against Hawthorn we would have been behind by triple figures at half time. Heaven only knows how we managed to turn that shamozzle around.
• vs GWS at the MCG. Disgusting, embarrassing joke of an effort from everyone involved.

I don't believe any other club, regardless of talent levels, have served up the kind of crap our players have served up over recent history. If I feel a bit less embarrassed telling people I am a Melbourne supporter by the end of the year it'll be a pass mark. I hope that amongst our lot there might be a group of players who are strong enough willed to say enough is enough, and have enough clout with the wider group that they can start to turn the tide for this club.

I believe our players are going at about 75% intensity vs. the 100% that their opponents go at. E.g:-

• I don't believe any other club, regardless of talent levels, have served up the kind of crap our players have served up over recent history. If I feel a bit less embarrassed telling people I am a Melbourne supporter by the end of the year it'll be a pass mark. I hope that amongst our lot there might be a group of players who are strong enough willed to say enough is enough, and have enough clout with the wider group that they can start to turn the tide for this club.

You can believe what you want to believe.

Have you ever considered our players are only 75% fit vs the 100% fitness levels that their opponents go at. Take a guess what our players have been doing all pre-season?

Have you ever considered. Nearly every other club at the top of the ladder, pumps unlimited resources, regardless of talent levels into their lists. Have we ( we as a club the MFC ) let our players down?

You can believe what you want to believe.

Have you ever considered our players are only 75% fit vs the 100% fitness levels that their opponents go at. Take a guess what our players have been doing all pre-season?

Have you ever considered. Nearly every other club at the top of the ladder, pumps unlimited resources, regardless of talent levels into their lists. Have we ( we as a club the MFC ) let our players down?

Perfect. If they were only 75% fit vs. the opposition being 100% fit last year, and they've focused on it all pre-season, then we shouldn't see any performances like that this year, and gaining a pass mark should be a piece of cake.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Its all I've ever heard for what MFC players serve up. Apparently they were 'tired' because it'd been such a long tough season working on learning how to play defensive football the day we played GWS at the MCG (who had 16 fit players BTW). Being 'tired' isn't an excuse that is accepted by supporters at Essendon. It isn't an excuse at Hawthorn. It never has been and that is why clubs like those are perennially competitive and we are perennially terrible.

Supporters continually excusing our players actually contributes to our woes in my opinion.

Things I'd like to see to give the club a pass mark for 2015:-

1. Beat a team and be able to walk away saying 'gee opposition x were really up for a fight today and didn't play that badly, but we were just really good'. Don't remember that happening too many times in the last 15 years.

2. Have zero matches where I feel like a want to get up an leave at the 5 minute mark of the first quarter because I believe our players are going at about 75% intensity vs. the 100% that their opponents go at. E.g:-

• vs WCE early last year. Disgrace.
• vs Geelong at the MCG this year. Embarrassingly submissive performance especially early.
• vs Essendon. Never seen a football team allow their opponents to do what they please like we did in the first half of that game. Had that been against Hawthorn we would have been behind by triple figures at half time. Heaven only knows how we managed to turn that shamozzle around.
• vs GWS at the MCG. Disgusting, embarrassing joke of an effort from everyone involved.

I don't believe any other club, regardless of talent levels, have served up the kind of crap our players have served up over recent history. If I feel a bit less embarrassed telling people I am a Melbourne supporter by the end of the year it'll be a pass mark. I hope that amongst our lot there might be a group of players who are strong enough willed to say enough is enough, and have enough clout with the wider group that they can start to turn the tide for this club.

with those dramatic statements you're describing 2012/2013 , we're not so bad now

Perfect. If they were only 75% fit vs. the opposition being 100% fit last year, and they've focused on it all pre-season, then we shouldn't see any performances like that this year, and gaining a pass mark should be a piece of cake.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Its all I've ever heard for what MFC players serve up. Apparently they were 'tired' because it'd been such a long tough season working on learning how to play defensive football the day we played GWS at the MCG (who had 16 fit players BTW). Being 'tired' isn't an excuse that is accepted by supporters at Essendon. It isn't an excuse at Hawthorn. It never has been and that is why clubs like those are perennially competitive and we are perennially terrible.

Supporters continually excusing our players actually contributes to our woes in my opinion.

Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. I dont think there is a player in the AFL that does not give 100%

Why some clubs are perennially competitive and we are perennially terrible does not all sit at the feet of the players. True the score board is the ultimate judge but many factors influence a scoreboard these days.

Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. I dont think there is a player in the AFL that does not give 100%

Why some clubs are perennially competitive and we are perennially terrible does not all sit at the feet of the players. True the score board is the ultimate judge but many factors influence a scoreboard these days.

Not to be rude, but I wonder how many games you have been able to get along to in the last few years, because as rufus states in his examples, there were times early in those games where guys were not running to pick up opponents or create options when in possession. Fitness should not be an issue in the first quarter of any game, and if you go back to Roos' press conferences he was equally annoyed at the lack of effort and intensity.

This is a Demonland ritual to have a largely optimistic thread about how many games our terrible team is going to win followed by WYL tar brushing all and sundry as modern day Neville Chamberlain's, followed by critiquing of WYL's position, and followed swiftly by the Chamberlain's lamenting the 'discussion' as brick wall head banging.

Routine is comforting...

This is a Demonland ritual to have a largely optimistic thread about how many games our terrible team is going to win followed by WYL tar brushing all and sundry as modern day Neville Chamberlain's, followed by critiquing of WYL's position, and followed swiftly by the Chamberlain's lamenting the 'discussion' as brick wall head banging.

Routine is comforting...

I hope we are not an infinite loop as you describe

Because if we are, then tonight is going to be painfully disappointing as usual