On what we have seen so far most of our list can't perform at the required standard consistently and most get beaten in their position more often that not.

Now what?

That's just rubbish, it's not that most of our list can't perform at the required standard consistently, more so that we have lacked depth, we have had a good 10-15 players but the remaining 10 or so haven't been up to it.

Edited February 22, 201510 yr by Henrietta Lumbago

It's a fact though. Fortunately we have enough developing talent on our list to keep most of us interested.

Two years versus five.

Toumpas is only just reaching Afl puberty.

You don't know what you are talking about fella.

judging from the training reports he'd been being 'managed' for the majority of the pre-season thus far.

That's just rubbish, it's not that most of our list can't perform at the required standard consistently, more so that we have lacked depth, we have had a good 10-15 players but the remaining 10 or so haven't been up to it.

With respect, you're the one speaking rubbish. Naturally, depth has been an issue, but more-so elite talent at the pointy end that has the capacity to influence match day results has been dire.

Senior players set the tone at a club, not "depth players". Lack of "depth players" may prevent finals appearances, or even a flag, but lack of "star quality" players prevents any kind of success.

With respect, you're the one speaking rubbish. Naturally, depth has been an issue, but more-so elite talent at the pointy end that has the capacity to influence match day results has been dire.

Senior players set the tone at a club, not "depth players". Lack of "depth players" may prevent finals appearances, or even a flag, but lack of "star quality" players prevents any kind of success.

So explain to me how Hawthorn managed to win the flag, with half of their team out during the season and even their coach for a while, depth has everything to do with it, injuries are always going to happen. We Have "star quality". It's depth which has been the main problem. With all due respect!

With respect, you're the one speaking rubbish. Naturally, depth has been an issue, but more-so elite talent at the pointy end that has the capacity to influence match day results has been dire.

Senior players set the tone at a club, not "depth players". Lack of "depth players" may prevent finals appearances, or even a flag, but lack of "star quality" players prevents any kind of success.

How am I speaking rubbish when you admit that depth has been an issue. Sure Gary Ablett is "star quality" but what happens to GC when he is injured, take 2014 for example, do you get my point now ???

How am I speaking rubbish when you admit that depth has been an issue. Sure Gary Ablett is "star quality" but what happens to GC when he is injured, take 2014 for example, do you get my point now ???

I feel like this contradicts your point completely, due to their loss of star power they struggled.

Hawthorn had 14 players play over 20 games in the year and whilst they were able to bring in depth players to play games this shows more the extent of a relatively stable group.

Depth is vital, but Agraders are far more important, the more a graders you have in a team the easier it is to find role players who are able to fit into the team and do what is necessary for the team.

Depth is not our biggest issue at Melbourne, the fact we have one Elite and very few who would be classified as good footballers is our biggest issue. With players like Mcdonald, Viney, Tyson, hogan and watts we have potential for a large group o very good talent and this will increase our chances of playing finals.

Its well and good to get into the right positions, but the ball carrier has seconds to sum up his options often at full tilt or with the opposition hot on their heels. Watts needs to demand the ball If he's not being noticed then he needs to change something.

Am really hoping it's HL who does this.

So explain to me how Hawthorn managed to win the flag, with half of their team out during the season and even their coach for a while, depth has everything to do with it, injuries are always going to happen. We Have "star quality". It's depth which has been the main problem. With all due respect!

Breaking it down simply....more players at Hawthorn win thier position than lose it, and they do that more often. It is players performing at a consistently higher level that thier opposition.

The opposite is true for the MFC.

Using your words.."based on what we have seen so far" who are the current stars with star quality at the MFC?

Anyhow i don't want to get into bickering and I think you are probably young, my reason for entering the thread was to illustrate that Watts Vs Toumpas is a pointless comparison.

NB: There are hundreds of players that have shown "star quality" but have been unable to put together a meaningful AFL career.

Edited February 22, 201510 yr by jabberwocky

In a normal world one or both of these guys would take a big step forward this season

But in the MFC world, I am not confident either will progress much or at all

In a normal world one or both of these guys would take a big step forward this season

But in the MFC world, I am not confident either will progress much or at all

On the contrary, I predict that both will feature top ten in our B&F this year (as will Salem)!

Edited February 22, 201510 yr by CBDees

On the contrary, I predict that both will feature top ten in our B&F this year (as will Salem)!

And I for one hope you are dead right sir

And I for one hope you are dead right sir

That makes two of us as it will mean we have definitely improved

On the contrary, I predict that both will feature top ten in our B&F this year (as will Salem)!

Toumpas will not finish in our top 10. But Watts will definitely finish in the top 10 again

Thank God (or whatever you believe in)......The footy is back this week.....

Toumpas will not finish in our top 10. But Watts will definitely finish in the top 10 again

in 6 years he's finished 9th and 10th and the other 4 outside the top10

I like Watts, but those are the facts and they aren't pretty

So a mid/half back vs a forward for one spot? Gee our match committee needs some guidance if this is the issue. People are so critical of watts, take away the draft number of all players, and we have about 16 players week in week out getting games who have a lot less influence on our performance than jack. He's doing ok, and when we improve, being the type of player he is he will improve significantly.

Toump will be a gun. He is silky. Has had a major surgery in both his years at the club. Before that he was rated top 5 in the country.

It's almost like half the melbourne supporters want our players to fail. How about supporting! You have a kid who it is well known was struggling for confidence and dealing with the pressures of everything to do with the afl (including his performance vs draft pick) and the people who should want him to do well increase the pressure on him by feeding the media frenzy with ridiculous criticism.

Toumpas on the other hand for me hasn't showed a thing. He once had a good quarter racking up 9 or 10 possessions but they weren't damaging. I like his character but it won't stop the hoards in years to come and if things continue unfortunately he will become the whipping boy (I hate seeing this happen).

The why would you add to it?? Seems a little hypocritical.

So a mid/half back vs a forward for one spot? Gee our match committee needs some guidance if this is the issue. People are so critical of watts, take away the draft number of all players, and we have about 16 players week in week out getting games who have a lot less influence on our performance than jack. He's doing ok, and when we improve, being the type of player he is he will improve significantly.

Toump will be a gun. He is silky. Has had a major surgery in both his years at the club. Before that he was rated top 5 in the country.

It's almost like half the melbourne supporters want our players to fail. How about supporting! You have a kid who it is well known was struggling for confidence and dealing with the pressures of everything to do with the afl (including his performance vs draft pick) and the people who should want him to do well increase the pressure on him by feeding the media frenzy with ridiculous criticism.

outside mid/forward vs outside mid/forward...

Toumpas will not finish in our top 10. But Watts will definitely finish in the top 10 again

I highly doubt that.

in 6 years he's finished 9th and 10th and the other 4 outside the top10

I like Watts, but those are the facts and they aren't pretty

I agree that it's not a great record although his first year is hardly countable and I know he missed like 6 weeks or so in another year, but based on his performances last year and our team continuing to improve I believe this year will be his best finish in the bnf.

I highly doubt that.

If he can play 18+ games and his managed pre season doesn't prevent him starting the year, I don't see how logically you could suggest that he won't improve from last years performance especially if our team is able to improve also!

I agree that it's not a great record although his first year is hardly countable and I know he missed like 6 weeks or so in another year, but based on his performances last year and our team continuing to improve I believe this year will be his best finish in the bnf.

If he can play 18+ games and his managed pre season doesn't prevent him starting the year, I don't see how logically you could suggest that he won't improve from last years performance especially if our team is able to improve also!

I just watched the last quarter of the Richmond game last year, if Watts can play more like he did in that game he will be top 10. He will have competition from Lumumba, Garlett and Hogan this year and players like Dawes and Viney will hopefully be pushing for spots in the top 10.

Would they have him tracking the massive amount of ks he is doing a week if there is an overuse/degenerative injury?

Perhaps under Mark Neeld they would ...

I actually believe that's its Jimmy Toumpas vs Christian Salem for this half back role , of which Salem is in front at the present time.

And if he doesnt? What then?

I dont know man. i spose ill have to read the doubters comments? is that the answer you were after...