Training - Friday 13th February, 2015

[old dee 23,503]

I'm assuming you mean surprised if does not play in most

yes Amazing what difference three letters makes.

[daisycutter 29,341]

It was only a 14 a side game, so the pressure wasn't intense, and it was easy to find space. What Toumpas does is not dissimilar to Sam Mitchell, the difference being that Mitchell is brilliant with his hands, and punches his kicks to get penetration, whereas Toumpas kicks leaning back which gives them more elevation and less penetration.

the last two years i've noticed toumpas in the open. like you said, he tends to slow down and take excessive time to choose his options and because he is then flat-footed tends to lean back on his kicks and lose penetration.

i's prefer him to put in a burst of speed while choosing his options and kick thru the ball more

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

The story of his life BB

Think he didn't handle the heat today OD, some of the matchups that happened during the drills were amusing, JKH and Spencer at one stage, JKH ran away from him surprisingly...

[WERRIDEE 5,352]

Attended my first training session for the year. There were very few bystanders so I thought I'd give my observations. I must have been on the other side of the ground to Baghdad Bob, cause I hardly noticed Petracca but noticed others not mentioned.

The match simulation involved 1 player with a white vest who played for both teams. Those players were Tyson, Viney and N.Jones alternatively. Tyson copped a spray from Roos for not giving off a handball which resulted in a turnover.

Standouts

- Despite his earlier error, Tyson is our classiest player and makes the game look easy.

- N. Jones just kept getting the ball.

- Newton was the player that surprised me the most. Great awareness and decision making, and a lovely left foot kick.

- Hogan clunked a fantastic contested mark and roamed as far as the centre. His kicking for goal doesn't seem to be a concern either.

- Garlett didn't do a lot, but will be great around Hogan.

- The backline players in Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Frost were impressive. I didn't have huge wraps on Frost, but his defensive skills were great. Salem also copped a spray from Roos for playing on and kicking to a contest, but his disposal is 1st class which is sadly lacking in our backline. Brayshaw got a fair bit of the ball at half back.

Disappointments

- Viney was in the play alot, and was in his element when tackling was involved. However he missed targets too often and at one stage smashed his fist into the ground after having a handball blocked by Frost, resulting in a goal at the other end.

- Collectively Spencer, Pedersen, McKenzie and M.Jones made the same mistakes they've been making their whole careers. Spencer and [Pedersen] dropping marks under little pressure. McKenzie going to ground unnecessarily to give off a handball resulting in a turnover.(Keep your bl##dy feet). M. Jones almost missed the lot when having a set shot 30m out straight in front.

Toumpas got plenty of the ball, but every time he did, he'll stop to survey what's ahead of him, and kick the ball leaning back. This results in the ball taking longer to get to a teammate. Good players know what they're going to do with the ball before they get it. It's something that Toumpas needs to work on.

Overall I thought the standard was pretty average in what seemed to be a low intensity match simulation. The conditions were fairly windy, but there were too many missed targets.

On a positive note, the addition of Hogan, Garlett, Newton and Lumumba will hopefully improve our side. Contrary to BB, I thought that Jamar was clearly the dominant big man.

Vince ran a lot of laps at a fairly decent pace, but I noticed a limp when he was walking. Howe also ran laps but seemed to be moving ok when kicking for goal.

How did JKH and Bail go? I think both will be fighting for the same defensive half forward spot. Did it look that way or will they have different roles?

On suspect users of the ball how did Grimes and Lumumba go?

Did Toumpas's technique cause turnovers or is it just something he should clean up? Did he spend some time down back or was it just in the midfield again?

[mo64 5,501]

No his disposal was really good, they do have the bail out ball into the goal square he utilised a couple of times, he has a decent kick on him when he is on the run

I agree with that, and wouldn't mind having Toumpas with ball in hand running down the wing. But the modern game is about contested footy, so if you're an outside mid, you need some tricks. When you look at Smith and Hill, they both have pace and evasive skills that Toumpas lacks. But I can still see Toumpas being in our best 22 as a link up player.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

the last two years i've noticed toumpas in the open. like you said, he tends to slow down and take excessive time to choose his options and because he is then flat-footed tends to lean back on his kicks and lose penetration.

i's prefer him to put in a burst of speed while choosing his options and kick thru the ball more

That's what they have him practicing Daisy, Roos has got him doing that, it is good to see, only saw him take the wrong option once today and yes that is when he stopped to think about it, think it was McCartney who had a word in the next break.

One pleasing thing today which I didn't mention was to see Hogan and Petracca in a break taling, pointing etc, obviously discussing running patterns, Hogan did it with JKH as well

One more question please TDI and Baghdad Bob.....

Has there been a directive from coaches that if we have the ball in transition just outside our forward 50 and there isn't a clear marking option to just kick it in , bring it to ground and let our smalls apply their trade. I know every situation is different but knowing how structured Roos is, he may want us to work the ball around until a clear option presents. Last year the few occasions we took the game we looked alright in parts, I think the opposition rely on us to stuff around giving them time to flood back. I raised this in the last training thread and someone commented the Sunshine Coast camp was about building trust, I hope he is right.

They do have the bail out ball to the goal square, they call it, so the forwards know to get there.

A sweet move today, Garlett was on the left side of the 50, Nev Jetta was coming down the right wing, didn't see any motioning but Nev kicked down the right into space, Garlett arrived at least 3 metres ahead of his marker and took it cleanly on the run

[mo64 5,501]

How did JKH and Bail go? I think both will be fighting for the same defensive half forward spot. Did it look that way or will they have different roles?

On suspect users of the ball how did Grimes and Lumumba go?

Did Toumpas's technique cause turnovers or is it just something he should clean up? Did he spend some time down back or was it just in the midfield again?

Baill got a fair bit of the ball, and JKH was ok without doing alot.

Toumpas' technique doesn't cause direct turnovers, but how a player weights his kicks can be the difference between your teammate having an 80% advantage in a marking contest or a 55% advantage. An incident that occured on the HFF, where Toumpas stopped, surveyed the field, and kicked the ball leaning back which resulted in the ball lobbing high into the forward pocket. It gave the forward no chance.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I agree with that, and wouldn't mind having Toumpas with ball in hand running down the wing. But the modern game is about contested footy, so if you're an outside mid, you need some tricks. When you look at Smith and Hill, they both have pace and evasive skills that Toumpas lacks. But I can still see Toumpas being in our best 22 as a link up player.

One thing I don't do, we don't have Smith or Hill so I don't compare, only interested in what Toumpas can do in the games, agree if he stops and thinks about it, completely different player, we have both highlighted where he did it today. McCartney had a word in the next break which is what a good development coach should do

How did JKH and Bail go? I think both will be fighting for the same defensive half forward spot. Did it look that way or will they have different roles?

On suspect users of the ball how did Grimes and Lumumba go?

Did Toumpas's technique cause turnovers or is it just something he should clean up? Did he spend some time down back or was it just in the midfield again?

Bail was Bail up and down the ground linking up, same as Matt Jones

Grimes and Lumumba were both solid today

[rjay 24,615]

Baill got a fair bit of the ball, and JKH was ok without doing alot.

Toumpas' technique doesn't cause direct turnovers, but how a player weights his kicks can be the difference between your teammate having an 80% advantage in a marking contest or a 55% advantage. An incident that occured on the HFF, where Toumpas stopped, surveyed the field, and kicked the ball leaning back which resulted in the ball lobbing high into the forward pocket. It gave the forward no chance.

Toumpas does tend to chip the ball a bit and you are right that he needs to give it a bit more gas. I think this was part of his U18 footy where he did a lot of give and get, it's also part of the old SA brand.

[Vagg 2,437]

A sweet move today, Garlett was on the left side of the 50, Nev Jetta was coming down the right wing, didn't see any motioning but Nev kicked down the right into space, Garlett arrived at least 3 metres ahead of his marker and took it cleanly on the run

Let's hope they replicate that sort of thing on match day!

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Or the season...

She has a point though, he's done very little in 5 years, and now having missed a big chunk of this preseason he gets one of Curry & Beer's golden tickets. Let's reserve judgement until 2016 and so on...

[Demon 16 198]

Just to add to the concept of everyone seeing things differently, I also thought Matt Jones was excellent today. He got plenty of footy and also used his run to create space for others all game.

On the other hand, I thought Brayshaw was the standout of the kids. Got plenty of it and made some big tackles. Is very neat by foot and I suspect he's going to be one of those players who you thought was quiet but ends up with 25+ touches. Petracca did some good things but looked to lack the required fitness and his field kicking was average.

Dean Kent and Max Gawn were the 2 that impressed me most in the match sim, and Lumumba was very good as well.

[hemingway 7,615]

ALL reports greatly appreciated. Information and insights in all posts ... another whisky and soda please waiter.

[drdrake 3,124]

Toumpas does tend to chip the ball a bit and you are right that he needs to give it a bit more gas. I think this was part of his U18 footy where he did a lot of give and get, it's also part of the old SA brand.

Wait until this kid starts to believe in himself at this level, he will one day and be a very good AFL player, I just hope it is with us.

[rjay 24,615]

Wait until this kid starts to believe in himself at this level, he will one day and be a very good AFL player, I just hope it is with us.

I think he will be fine, just an adjustment to AFL.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Toumpas got plenty of the ball, but every time he did, he'll stop to survey what's ahead of him, and kick the ball leaning back. This results in the ball taking longer to get to a teammate. Good players know what they're going to do with the ball before they get it. It's something that Toumpas needs to work on.

I've said this from the start, his action means he is a neat kick, but by no means a dangerous one.

[Demon 16 198]

Wait until this kid starts to believe in himself at this level, he will one day and be a very good AFL player, I just hope it is with us.

I see Toumpas as becoming a Bail/M Jones type of hard running link man.

He will be criticised for it, because you want more than a 'foot soldier' with pick 4, but I think he'll still carve out a good AFL career and will particularly raise his game in a couple more seasons (around 23 or 24 years old).

As several have implied already, if he can learn to pierce his kick rather than float it, it will be the difference between link man and damaging runner.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

She has a point though, he's done very little in 5 years, and now having missed a big chunk of this preseason he gets one of Curry & Beer's golden tickets. Let's reserve judgement until 2016 and so on...

Yep. Vince, Howe and Watts all to contribute nothing as per the principles of modern sports medicine. Not a great start

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Just to add to the concept of everyone seeing things differently, I also thought Matt Jones was excellent today. He got plenty of footy and also used his run to create space for others all game.

On the other hand, I thought Brayshaw was the standout of the kids. Got plenty of it and made some big tackles. Is very neat by foot and I suspect he's going to be one of those players who you thought was quiet but ends up with 25+ touches. Petracca did some good things but looked to lack the required fitness and his field kicking was average.

Dean Kent and Max Gawn were the 2 that impressed me most in the match sim, and Lumumba was very good as well.

Yes agree Brayshaw was good today, but just think it's great and leads to good debate that we disagree on Petracca

I am afraid to say Kent is catching up in the manlove stakes with Nev and Jeff Garlett, he is back in big way

Edited February 13, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I spoke to another couple of supporters today, we all agree Matt Jones will have to play himself 'out' of the team

[Ted Lasso 18,786]

Who was the lad wearing number 9 today?

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I've said this from the start, his action means he is a neat kick, but by no means a dangerous one.

Clint, this is what I am waiting to see, Salem, Toumpas, Jetta, Cross, Matt Jones, they are all good neat kicks, if they can hit an option in a dangerous position that will make them a dangerous kick, roll on the NAB Cup and we will get a chance to see, the example of the Jetta to Garlett kick I mentioned before is hopefully is a sign of things to come

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Who was the lad wearing number 9 today?

That's Vandenberg, found out they are last years training jumpers, for some reason the new ones are not here yet, so he and Jeff Garlett don't have their number

[rjay 24,615]

Clint, this is what I am waiting to see, Salem, Toumpas, Jetta, Cross, Matt Jones, they are all good neat kicks, if they can hit an option in a dangerous position that will make them a dangerous kick, roll on the NAB Cup and we will get a chance to see, the example of the Jetta to Garlett kick I mentioned before is hopefully is a sign of things to come

Salem's the one who is the dangerous kick, be good to see him getting the ball in his hands more this season which should happen.

[Demon 16 198]

Yes agree Brayshaw was good today, but just think it's great and leads to good debate that we disagree on Petracca

I am afraid to say Kent is catching up in the manlove stakes with Nev and Jeff Garlett, he is back in big way

Going on other reports I seem to be in the minority with Brayshaw being advanced on Petracca - so I could well have missed a few pieces of work from Petracca this morning.

All in all I left feeling very positive, which is the main thing.

Would have said a hello if I knew who to look for TDI, by the way.