THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[SaberFang 7,151]

Could the AFL take over the Essendon FC if all this goes as catastrophically as we expect?

NRL just took over the Gold Coast Titans due to the drugs scandal that's hit them. Would show some strength from the AFL to do the same in light of the seriousness of events.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Could the AFL take over the Essendon FC if all this goes as catastrophically as we expect?

NRL just took over the Gold Coast Titans due to the drugs scandal that's hit them. Would show some strength from the AFL to do the same in light of the seriousness of events.

cant see that happening...theyre not even interested in forcing Hird out of the game

[deefrag 277]

Are you sure?

Yes!

[robbiefrom13 892]

The fact Essendon cannot produce records of what was administered when is not only fanciful considering the degree to which these players are monitored these days but should result in a guilty outcome regardless of any other factors.

yes. Getting the players to sign waivers indicates the club recognised the possibility of comeback. And by having secured both the waivers and the absence of any documentation, EFC make plain their a priori plans for never being called to account.

It is not credible to suggest no player asked what they were being injected with. If they were lied to, they have a get-out-of-jail card - but not one has tried to use it - ergo, the players knew and figured EFC's strategy to evade punishment would cover them too.

There will one messy fan, and room, sooner or later! Mindboggling to imagine the legal "brains trust" at EFC thinking this would work - they have departed from all normal medical practice so far that the onus has to be on them to explain why, which they cannot, so that "guilty as sin" is the only rational conclusion. Penalties have to be exemplary, both for the systematic long-term doping and for the deliberate attempt from the outset, as well as ever since, to be unpunishable.

Edited February 24, 2015 by robbiefrom13

[old dee 23,872]

Could the AFL take over the Essendon FC if all this goes as catastrophically as we expect?

NRL just took over the Gold Coast Titans due to the drugs scandal that's hit them. Would show some strength from the AFL to do the same in light of the seriousness of events.

You are being a little over simplistic there.

This was just the final straw.

They were a basket case before this hit and the club contacted the NRL saying please help or we will go under.

In spite of numerous attempts over 30 years all NRL franchises on the Gold coast have failed

The EFC is nothing like that at this stage.

They are still well and truly solvent with a big support base and a hundred years of success.

They may be weakened in the short term but the EFC will go on.

[hardtack 10,627]

You are being a little over simplistic there.

This was just the final straw.

They were a basket case before this hit and the club contacted the NRL saying please help or we will go under.

In spite of numerous attempts over 30 years all NRL franchises on the Gold coast have failed

The EFC is nothing like that at this stage.

They are still well and truly solvent with a big support base and a hundred years of success.

They may be weakened in the short term but the EFC will go on.

Yep, the Titans were on the way out regardless due to poor attendances, poor membership numbers, etc. The scandal just hastened their demise as they had nowhere to train (the school where they did train gave them the boot the minute the news broke) and I believe sponsors were jumping ship... the NRL had no choice but to jump in and it is probably the best thing that could happen for that club.

The Bombers on the other hand... over the top attendances, over the top memberships, over the top performance enhancement program, over the top resistance, etc... the world was their oyster... they can expect little to no support.

Edited February 24, 2015 by hardtack

[GM11 782]

All I can say is a token 3 match suspension would be more of an encouragement than a deterrent.

[old dee 23,872]

All I can say is a token 3 match suspension would be more of an encouragement than a deterrent.

I seriously doubt that. Every other club in the AFL must look at the crap the EFC and their supporters have been through over the last two years and a few more to come and say Not for us thank you.

You also assume that the other clubs are run by no conscious types like Hird and Little

Edited February 24, 2015 by old dee

[Its Time for Another 4,287]

Note: No charges were laid by the AFL about performance enhancing drugs, that is ASADA's bailiwick.

It's worse for them than that.

Little and Hird made a special point of making sure that the Settlement Deed for the Sanctions stated that the Sanctions were only for Governance Breaches it specifically stated that there was no suggestion of Drug Breaches. They should never have done this. They should have had it worded to say that there was no suggestion of Drug Breaches but they were agreeing to the Sanctions on the basis that they covered the entire situation including if Drug Breaches were sustained in the future. But by vainly hoping to protect Hird's personal reputation they have left themselves completely exposed to the AFL virtually being forced to impose further Sanctions for Drug Breaches. ASADA are only penalising the players not the Club. How would it look if the AFL did nothing to a Club that was involved in administering illegal drugs. I can't see how they will be able to do nothing.

[old dee 23,872]

It's worse for them than that.

Little and Hird made a special point of making sure that the Settlement Deed for the Sanctions stated that the Sanctions were only for Governance Breaches it specifically stated that there was no suggestion of Drug Breaches. They should never have done this. They should have had it worded to say that there was no suggestion of Drug Breaches but they were agreeing to the Sanctions on the basis that they covered the entire situation including if Drug Breaches were sustained in the future. But by vainly hoping to protect Hird's personal reputation they have left themselves completely exposed to the AFL virtually being forced to impose further Sanctions for Drug Breaches. ASADA are only penalising the players not the Club. How would it look if the AFL did nothing to a Club that was involved in administering illegal drugs. I can't see how they will be able to do nothing.

Easy they just say the club was penalised to the tune of $2 million plus dropped from finals matches in 2013 and had draft picks taken away.

I would like to be as sure of winning tattslotto as I am they will get no more penalties.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Yes!

Congratulations, deefrag, the goat photo is finally published.

[deefrag 277]

Congratulations, deefrag, the goat photo is finally published.

Thanks go to "Billy" (pic) he was the only goat willing to go public . . the other 33 wished to remain anonymous!

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

It's worse for them than that.

Little and Hird made a special point of making sure that the Settlement Deed for the Sanctions stated that the Sanctions were only for Governance Breaches it specifically stated that there was no suggestion of Drug Breaches. They should never have done this. They should have had it worded to say that there was no suggestion of Drug Breaches but they were agreeing to the Sanctions on the basis that they covered the entire situation including if Drug Breaches were sustained in the future. But by vainly hoping to protect Hird's personal reputation they have left themselves completely exposed to the AFL virtually being forced to impose further Sanctions for Drug Breaches. ASADA are only penalising the players not the Club. How would it look if the AFL did nothing to a Club that was involved in administering illegal drugs. I can't see how they will be able to do nothing.

I thought that after a certain amount of players are found guilty the club too had to be punished? seemed like it was all but certain both club and players were going to cop it

[ManDee 7,222]

Easy they just say the club was penalised to the tune of $2 million plus dropped from finals matches in 2013 and had draft picks taken away.

I would like to be as sure of winning tattslotto as I am they will get no more penalties.

Not so easy OD, the penalties to date have been for bringing the game into disrepute excluding drug breaches (none proven at the time).

So if drug breaches are now proven that is an additional problem. Further penalties must be forthcoming.

They cannot say that they have already been penalised for the use of PHD's

Edit: That would be like saying that I was penalised for driving a stolen car, therefor I cannot be charged for the bank robbery done at the same time.

Edited February 25, 2015 by ManDee

[daisycutter 29,738]

if the players (as expected) are found guilty and receive discounts for being "duped"

then surely this only makes those responsible for the "duping" all the more accountable

i notice though that only the players and dank are on charges at this time

does this mean (if players found guilty) that asada will then issue charges against other key club officials and the club itself?

do we then have to go through another drawn out tribunal etc?

[jnrmac 20,186]

yes. Getting the players to sign waivers indicates the club recognised the possibility of comeback. And by having secured both the waivers and the absence of any documentation, EFC make plain their a priori plans for never being called to account.

It is not credible to suggest no player asked what they were being injected with. If they were lied to, they have a get-out-of-jail card - but not one has tried to use it - ergo, the players knew and figured EFC's strategy to evade punishment would cover them too.

There will one messy fan, and room, sooner or later! Mindboggling to imagine the legal "brains trust" at EFC thinking this would work - they have departed from all normal medical practice so far that the onus has to be on them to explain why, which they cannot, so that "guilty as sin" is the only rational conclusion. Penalties have to be exemplary, both for the systematic long-term doping and for the deliberate attempt from the outset, as well as ever since, to be unpunishable.

I think that's wrong. Every athlete caught would claim that and it couldn't work that way.

But I still ask why didn't Doc Reid approve everything, and if he did he is as guilty as the players. And why dodn't one player ask his wife, his own doctor, look up the internet etc etc.

From what we know not one player made independent enquiries as to what they were being given because:

they had all drunk the Hirdy Kool-aid; and,

they were trying to get an edge and this was a 'black ops' programme and it was all top secret.

They are cooked.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I think that's wrong. Every athlete caught would claim that and it couldn't work that way.

But I still ask why didn't Doc Reid approve everything, and if he did he is as guilty as the players. And why dodn't one player ask his wife, his own doctor, look up the internet etc etc.

From what we know not one player made independent enquiries as to what they were being given because:

they had all drunk the Hirdy Kool-aid; and,

they were trying to get an edge and this was a 'black ops' programme and it was all top secret.

They are cooked.

The fact the spotlight has for the most part avoided Reid absolutely baffles me, surely the club doctor should be front and centre in this situation, if the club didn't acknowledge the handwritten letter that he apparently wrote to the club my next step would have been to make one out to ASADA providing details of what was going on.

[ManDee 7,222]

The fact the spotlight has for the most part avoided Reid absolutely baffles me, surely the club doctor should be front and centre in this situation, if the club didn't acknowledge the handwritten letter that he apparently wrote to the club my next step would have been to make one out to ASADA providing details of what was going on.

O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!

Walter Scott

[dpositive 1,684]

Since when has hypocrisy been banned from World sport?

Was definite irony intended. Unfortunately it may be the reality.

[TRIGON 4,790]

I think that's wrong. Every athlete caught would claim that and it couldn't work that way.

But I still ask why didn't Doc Reid approve everything, and if he did he is as guilty as the players. And why dodn't one player ask his wife, his own doctor, look up the internet etc etc.

From what we know not one player made independent enquiries as to what they were being given because:

they had all drunk the Hirdy Kool-aid; and,

they were trying to get an edge and this was a 'black ops' programme and it was all top secret.

They are cooked.

The "Hirdtown" massacre?

[deefrag 277]

The "Hirdtown" massacre?

Note how the Dopers bloated bodies resembled those at "Jonestown"!

[Wunders 397]

Just was reading the article on Port Adelaide and it mentioned:

"it'll be Port supporters' only chance to see star recruit Patrick Ryder in action before the start of the season. Ryder and Angus Monfries are not playing in the NAB Challenge as they await the verdict of the Anti-Doping Tribunal, expected by late March"

I keep going back to earlier individual cases:

1. Ahmed Saad copped an 18 month suspension for actually returning a positive drug test.
2. VFL player Wade Lees copped an 18-month ban after attempting to import a fat-burning product he ordered on the internet.

Both had no idea what they ordered/took (in their respective cases) was illegal. The key point from this is that both were completely banned from the sport for the time period.

How can it be possible to back date a ban for the essendon players if they are still attending the club, training and competing in match simulations like the rest of the clubs?

Training is playing in my point of view and if they get banned back dating doesn't make sense.

If this happens and i was Saad i''d want to counter-sue for lost earnings for example (wasn't allowed to Back date his ban or keep training).

Obviously, i know little and this is all subjective, but it doesn't feel right to have vastly different possible punishments for similar acts (ordering or taking supplements with drugs in them that they didn't know = 18 month ban//once found guilty = start of punishment with complete ban from footy department).

[ManDee 7,222]

Just was reading the article on Port Adelaide and it mentioned:

"it'll be Port supporters' only chance to see star recruit Patrick Ryder in action before the start of the season. Ryder and Angus Monfries are not playing in the NAB Challenge as they await the verdict of the Anti-Doping Tribunal, expected by late March"

I keep going back to earlier individual cases:

1. Ahmed Saad copped an 18 month suspension for actually returning a positive drug test.
2. VFL player Wade Lees copped an 18-month ban after attempting to import a fat-burning product he ordered on the internet.

Both had no idea what they ordered/took (in their respective cases) was illegal. The key point from this is that both were completely banned from the sport for the time period.

How can it be possible to back date a ban for the essendon players if they are still attending the club, training and competing in match simulations like the rest of the clubs?

Training is playing in my point of view and if they get banned back dating doesn't make sense.

If this happens and i was Saad i''d want to counter-sue for lost earnings for example (wasn't allowed to Back date his ban or keep training).

Obviously, i know little and this is all subjective, but it doesn't feel right to have vastly different possible punishments for similar acts (ordering or taking supplements with drugs in them that they didn't know = 18 month ban//once found guilty = start of punishment with complete ban from footy department).

I think the items were imported, but he did not take possession or consume the product. So he attempted to take a product that unknown to him contained a banned substance. Or so he claimed, does this sound familiar?

[ManDee 7,222]

I'd imagine if this was happening to us, we'd have our fair share of supporters not wanting to face the facts as well. Coping mechanism and ignorance is bliss etc.

Rosie Huntington is that really you?

[Wolfmother 182]

The players were duped is a line they will run with and one which has been pushed by EFC to gain sympathy. In reality it won't matter as it can't be taken into consideration.

Whilst the players will point to the fact the AFLs guidance in their education products on PED says run everything through the club doctor the WADA code puts the onus on the players and if none of them made independent enquires with ASADA they have failed in their responsibilities.

Whilst the AFL guidelines and education products need a review but I don't think anyone saw a club doing this type of program.