This is why we'll never get out of the bottom 4. Players in their prime leaving while the good clubs keep their guns.

Dunn is the only senior/good player of note that has stayed loyal, and full credit to him. (So has Grimes but you can tell he genuinely loves the club)

Can you imagine how bad we'll be in 2016 if we lost both Jones and Howe.

We must keep our boys in this age bracket or we will keep staying at the bottom of the ladder. We must stop this draft pick crap were we bring kids and hope they save the day. 22 to 28 is when you get a return out of your investment. I want Howe to stay a demon.

  On 13/11/2014 at 12:32, Ron Burgundy said:

Big money offers have been on the table since the 80s.

A player's loyalty settings remain the same as they always have been. The modern day Robbie Flower would be as loyal now as he was then.

Tom Scully would have done just as Gerard Healy did, albeit 20 years earlier.

Not all people are built the same way.

For every Chip Frawley and Tom $€u££¥ there's a Chris Grant.

  On 13/11/2014 at 12:45, Ron Burgundy said:

I think most players still aspire to being 'one club' players.

I think it is a throw away line that is made by players who have either yet to receive an offer from another club and/or have not lived playing in a poor team year after year.

Two things keep a player at a club - most importantly it is success and $'s.

It is easy to aspire to be a one club player if you consistently playing finals.

The equations are pretty simple - most players are lured out of successful clubs by money

Most players are lured out of unsuccessful clubs by the chance of success not necessarily money.(Rivers is a prime example of a player leaving for success at reportedly less money than he was to receive with us).

Most players are lured from an unsuccessful to another unsuccessful club for money - Callum Ward and Scully.

Then you have the last two categories - fall outs with a coach (Richetelli) and trade to another club for more opportunity (Petterd).

Aspiring to one club is a warm and fuzzy notion that is fluid depending on circumstances.

  On 13/11/2014 at 20:50, Dee Dee said:

For every Chip Frawley and Tom $€u££¥ there's a Chris Grant.

So that is a 2:1 ratio of scumbags to legends.

  On 13/11/2014 at 20:50, Dee Dee said:

For every Chip Frawley and Tom $€u££¥ there's a Chris Grant.

Interesting that you had to go back as far as Chis Grant - he was offered huge money to move ...wait for it.... 1996 - that's 18 years ago !

So for every one player that is loyal there are two more that are not ? damning statistic.

(tongue in cheek post - but the sad truth is that there are very few Grants and Flowers in the AFL these days - its a business)

  On 13/11/2014 at 21:47, ManDee said:

So that is a 2:1 ratio of scumbags to legends.

Odds sound about right for the AFL in the 21st century

Now that we have experience in observing these matters, we may see one or more of these following scenarios assuming what we have heard so far is true.

1) He is holding out contract talks to improve his currency and plays a spectacular season. A fight for his services will ensure.

2) He has already made a backdoor deal and will cruise through the season AKA Frawley.

3) If point 2 is the case, then he may be dropped(assuming Roos is true to his rhetoric). Then he may develop a mysterious injury that keeps him out for the better part of the season AKA Scully.

4) Same as point 3 but off to pasture at Casey.

5) Before the middle of next season he signs a new deal on the back of good form and then slacks off.

6) Before the middle of next season he signs a new deal on the back of good form and finally becomes the complete player we have hoped for.

7) If this rumour still persists after round 2 next season and DL achieves more than 50 pages of posts on the matter he is surely gawn!

8) He signs a deal promply and all is forgotten We will talk about something else.

This sums it all up. IMO he has not been good enough to deserve a spot in the "Hold off talks category". Maybe the surprise offer from GWS has given him ideas.

IMO He is an average footballer who takes the occasional unbelievable Mark.

I think at the right price he is a keep.

However in today's AFL he is trade able for the right deal.

It is just the world we now live in, I don't like this world

However I have no choice.

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:04, america de cali said:

This sums it all up. IMO he has not been good enought to deserve a spot in the "Hold off talks category". Maybe the surprise offer from GWS has given him ideas.

this

He's good ( on song ) but he hasnt proved to be 'that' be all all-round performer. More theatrical than irreplaceable for mine.

Pull your finger out Jeremy and just play footy

I reckon he'll leave if we play him in defence again this year. Just watching him on interviews etc I don't think he enjoyed it as when he was in the forward line.

If he does go forward he can't afford to get lost like he used to and needs to get his hands on the footy. Too many times we barely saw him for the match.

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:05, old dee said:

IMO He is an average footballer who takes the occasional unbelievable Mark.

I think at the right price he is a keep.

However in today's AFL he is trade able for the right deal.

It is just the world we now live in, I don't like this world

However I have no choice.

He takes a LOT of unbelievable marks. But I would prefer to see 10 marks a week leading out hands in front of the face rather than 1 mark of the year every two weeks. I thought the move to defense was good in that he saw a lot more of the ball and was more involved. He did some fine spoiling and intercepts. But he still has a way to go.

Mr Howe might need to be reminded Roos could care less about 'flash' and and show , he's far more interested in effort and results.

Only one litmus Jeremy and thats how you help the teams impact on the scoreboard. Speccies are great, but team efforts win games.

Those in the media and here on DL that beg for the return of Howe to the forward line really need to look back at his kicking at goal. He is not a reliable set shot and too often does not finish his good marking work with scores. I believe that is why he was first moved to the backline. Really needs to work on his kicking to become an elite player. Its all well and good to have the flair but you have to master the basics too.

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:25, Leoncelli_36 said:

Those in the media and here on DL that beg for the return of Howe to the forward line really need to look back at his kicking at goal. He is not a reliable set shot and too often does not finish his good marking work with scores. I believe that is why he was first moved to the backline. Really needs to work on his kicking to become an elite player. Its all well and good to have the flair but you have to master the basics too.

Maybe it was me but I had complete faith that he would put them through from the boundary line but any kicks 40 metres out on a slight angle or directly in front ..ewwww

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:25, Leoncelli_36 said:

Those in the media and here on DL that beg for the return of Howe to the forward line really need to look back at his kicking at goal. He is not a reliable set shot and too often does not finish his good marking work with scores. I believe that is why he was first moved to the backline. Really needs to work on his kicking to become an elite player. Its all well and good to have the flair but you have to master the basics too.

Jack Viney wouldn't agree. Said on a recent interview, that out of everyone Howe is the player he would pick to kick that important goal.

This guy could be anything.

How some supporters think he is dispensable is beyond me.

A multi-dimensional medium that can play tall or smaller. With a better tank, can rotate through the midfield.

Should command $$$ in a year's time IMO.

Those big marks look great but are momentum killers in the modern game unless taken within goal range. Most times he takes one he has few options because in the time he takes to get up the oposition have set up their defence. It would be more value if he punched the ball every time. And deep in defence his fluffed efforts have too often resulted in easy oposition goals.

  On 13/11/2014 at 18:26, Bring-Back-Powell said:

This is why we'll never get out of the bottom 4. Players in their prime leaving while the good clubs keep their guns.

Can you imagine how bad we'll be in 2016 if we lost both Jones and Howe.

Correct. We'll never get anywhere with a team of teenagers & 30 year olds.

Howe has got more talent than 95% of our list. We would be stupid to let him go.

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:42, america de cali said:

Those big marks look great but are momentum killers in the modern game unless taken within goal range. Most times he takes one he has few options because in the time he takes to get up the oposition have set up their defence. It would be more value if he punched the ball every time. And deep in defence his fluffed efforts have too often resulted in easy oposition goals.

being a critic is one thing but your comments are sad

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:48, daisycutter said:

being a critic is one thing but your comments are sad

The productivity of his high marking has added little for our fortunes. Rarely has anything good happened after he takes one. Better as Nutbeen said he works to take lead up marks. And he is no defender. Should play forward all the time.

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:48, daisycutter said:

being a critic is one thing but your comments are sad

Actually I would like to revisit my comments

I would like to see him take 9 marks a week leading out - hands in front of the face.. and.... one mark of the year each week. It is why we go to the football.

I really think in a top side Jeremy Howe would be far more dangerous, especially as a forward.

we need to hang onto him, as we rise we will see more and more from Jeremy

  On 13/11/2014 at 22:42, america de cali said:

Those big marks look great but are momentum killers in the modern game unless taken within goal range. Most times he takes one he has few options because in the time he takes to get up the oposition have set up their defence. It would be more value if he punched the ball every time. And deep in defence his fluffed efforts have too often resulted in easy oposition goals.

If he doesn't take the mark, there's a 50/50 loose ball... and you're saying that is preferable to Howey having to take 3 seconds to get to his feet and prepare for a pass? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Howe is very much a required player IMO.