Junior was a long serving captain who provided on field leadership in a time we were all at sea on field and off. Trengove whilst being loyal and loved has only put in 1 good season and still has currency. Apples and oranges.

This is one of the... least impressive... posts I've ever read on this forum.

A leopard can't change its spots, but we're trying to change our spots? WTF?!

Dunno Machsy, have you seen you post?

No we dont have to only proposed at this stage Pick 12 for JT is good value

Your right. Pick 12 for Trengove is good value when mentioned on a demons supporter forum.

collingwood went after brisbanes players and there was an instant statement backing their kids...

rumours about adam treloar and GWS put out a statement naming him a required player

i am extremely disappointed that the MFC didn't take the opportunity to pay back trengoves loyalty

imagine instead the headline "MFC sticks true to former captain"

imagine an article about the former skipper; after battling the twin issues of ASADA and his season ending navicular injury being told that he is still the future of the club even without the title. being told that he is more important to the club than the random kid we pick with 12.

remember when scully didn't sign on but trengove did?

can you imagine a club that repayed such loyalty in kind?

after all, how does one rebuild a culture?

collingwood went after brisbanes players and there was an instant statement backing their kids...

rumours about adam treloar and GWS put out a statement naming him a required player

i am extremely disappointed that the MFC didn't take the opportunity to pay back trengoves loyalty

imagine instead the headline "MFC sticks true to former captain"

imagine an article about the former skipper; after battling the twin issues of ASADA and his season ending navicular injury being told that he is still the future of the club even without the title. being told that he is more important to the club than the random kid we pick with 12.

remember when scully didn't sign on but trengove did?

can you imagine a club that repayed such loyalty in kind?

after all, how does one rebuild a culture?

The club should be about results and Trengove hasn't produced them.

Trengove, Watts and Toumpas on the chopping block for mine.

Would not be surprised to see a couple of them go.

It's definitely a question of value for me, Red. I like Trengove, but every single player in the AFL is tradeable. I just think the trade is terrible value. While we are always going to be clouded in our judgment about our own players and what they're worth, what on earth would Richmond supporters know about his value? Are their lives so sad that they have been watching Melbourne games every week for the last five years and have a firm grasp on him as a player? I'm hoping desperately that Melbourne is doing this with Beams/Dangerfield/other equivalent star in the bag and require this pick, as for me it's the difference between an A or an F this trading period.

If we trade him to gain a pick to use on another trade, I'm all for it.

But if we just trade him to gain pick 12, which could just as well turn out to be a dud player, then it's a real slap in the face to a kid who stuck by us and shows that we aren't confident in our ability to develop players.

Of course I do believe that our club is run by competent people now, and that trading him for pick 12 is for the purpose of then on trading pick 12 for immediate list improvement.

So Jaded and Pants, if you were his manager what would you advise him to do.

If it's accept the Tiges offer (assuming it's good which it will be), why don't you want the best for the kid?

Is that what happened when we pushed Junior into retirement?

(I don't know tbh, I'm just wondering).

wrong person saying the wrong words in the wrong way last time..

You can bet in their eos sit-downs some home truths were told and a few heads up given.

This wont come as any cultural shock....possibly an awakening might be closer to the mark.

It boils down to whether Trengove's "true" form was in 2010 & 2011 when he was injury-free, or in 2012 & 2013 when he played injured.

And whether his foot has healed (due to finally getting the proper treatment).

And if his foot has healed, whether he's going to play better than in 2012 & 2013, or whether he isn't.

Finding it hard to believe that some on here think that 2013 was his ceiling.

Oh, and the trade needs to stand on its merits. Don't hope against hope that it's part of a supertrade that's going to net us two star mids.

Must say, if I was him right now, I'd be gutted. And at least 2/3 of the way out the door, with a burning desire to prove those who dumped me wrong.

Whoever said he'd be better off playing for another club has probably hit the nail on the head.

Those comments reek of "everyone is unreasonable unless they agree with me"...

How? You and Adam are clearly dumb if that's how you took that.

This is one of the... least impressive... posts I've ever read on this forum.

A leopard can't change its spots, but we're trying to change our spots? WTF?!

Machsy, what I mean to say is the players that have been in the MFC environment in the past 7 or so years developed habits that are not conducive to winning. The MFC is the leapard and the players are its spots. Some highly rated players like Trengove may need a new environment, a new leopard so to speak, which will allow them to thrive, just as we must bring in some new players that will change our spots and help bring success.

So Jaded and Pants, if you were his manager what would you advise him to do.

If it's accept the Tiges offer (assuming it's good which it will be), why don't you want the best for the kid?

Bob, I think a manager would place a pretty big emphasis on dollars and security so I doubt he'd be advising him not to go to Richmond. Are you suggesting that continuing his career at Melbourne would be a path to nowhere for Trengove? Again, I like Trengove. I think he'll be one of the most warmly received ex-players at a MFC game we've seen. If I was his manager I'd be telling him to take the money and security and go.

For me it's about where we are heading. It's not so much a matter of being scarred by previously investing heavily in the draft and failing. We are seeing now increasing freedom for players, and many are chasing success. I don't know that we can afford another slow build through top picks if we are going to be able to keep and attract top level talent.

Wow, that was a late night post and slightly intoxicated. What I meant with Jones was that we'd be open to trading him if he won't re-sign. Roos has already flagged this.

Then maybe keep the late night intoxicated comments to your self hey?

Where does Trengove fit into Richmond's midfield? Or team in general? Their list has holes but what role would they have earmarked for him?

I'm not convinced Richmond is necessarily the better place for Trengove to be given we have a weak midfield as well as a weak half-forward line (the other possible place to play him). That doesn't mean Richmond's offer wouldn't be great for him.

For me it's about where we are heading. It's not so much a matter of being scarred by previously investing heavily in the draft and failing. We are seeing now increasing freedom for players, and many are chasing success. I don't know that we can afford another slow build through top picks if we are going to be able to keep and attract top level talent.

That's part of it for me, agreed.

More importantly, I don't think moving him on just to move up from 23 to 12 in a relatively flat draft is worth it. They both add up to the same thing though. I'm not interested in pick 12 at the draft, to me I don't think that's a gain for us. If we are on-trading 12, that's different.

I am no bio-mechanics expert but i have always been very suspicious of the idea that the foot injury was responsible for Trengrove's lack of pace/mobility. You may expect a limp on one side but not a complete drop off of speed.

Are there any physios etc on here that could explain this?

The only other thing I want to add to this discussion is (apologies if already raised I don't get a chance to read the whole thread)

AFL is a business, and the big clubs run it like a business not a club.

In saying that if Roos and co decide moving on Trengove is best for the business fo winning games (dare i say preimerships) I can't disagree

As I've mentioned I don't really want to see Trenners leave but at the end of the day it's about the MFC winning games consistently year in year out. If trading Trengove achieves that long term Im all for it

Bob, I think a manager would place a pretty big emphasis on dollars and security so I doubt he'd be advising him not to go to Richmond. Are you suggesting that continuing his career at Melbourne would be a path to nowhere for Trengove? Again, I like Trengove. I think he'll be one of the most warmly received ex-players at a MFC game we've seen. If I was his manager I'd be telling him to take the money and security and go.

For me it's about where we are heading. It's not so much a matter of being scarred by previously investing heavily in the draft and failing. We are seeing now increasing freedom for players, and many are chasing success. I don't know that we can afford another slow build through top picks if we are going to be able to keep and attract top level talent.

I think the choice here is a) going to Richmond is guaranteed coin irregardless. b) staying at Melbourne ...maybe/maybe not

Reality is Jack is at 'those crossroads' ; like it or not

There are NO more freebies at the Dees. its changed

I am no bio-mechanics expert but i have always been very suspicious of the idea that the foot injury was responsible for Trengrove's lack of pace/mobility. You may expect a limp on one side but not a complete drop off of speed.

Are there any physios etc on here that could explain this?

I am sure you are not alone.

Then maybe keep the late night intoxicated comments to your self hey?

No, I'll post them. If you disagree with them, that's fine. Your prerogative.

I am no bio-mechanics expert but i have always been very suspicious of the idea that the foot injury was responsible for Trengrove's lack of pace/mobility. You may expect a limp on one side but not a complete drop off of speed.

Are there any physios etc on here that could explain this?

'Webber' has explained this before, maybe you could look up one of his posts. He is a physio and the short answer is it can.

Bob, I think a manager would place a pretty big emphasis on dollars and security so I doubt he'd be advising him not to go to Richmond. Are you suggesting that continuing his career at Melbourne would be a path to nowhere for Trengove?

No, if he has a career it's good at both Richmond and Melbourne. But I'm assuming any contract Richmond offer him will be well in advance of his current contract at MFC.

TBH I don't think he's all that good a player. It's best for him to take what is being offered to give him the best chance. If he does become elite good on him but I've never seen the pace, lateral movement, strength or disposal skills for him to do that. He's a nice one pace accumulator but I think the pace of the game may have him struggling.

I think Trenners career may be a pathway to nowhere at whichever club he plays. It gives me no pleasure to say that but that's the way I see it.

Is he a better player than Dayne Beams? Not even close

Does anything else matter then?

If you believe loyalty is a two way concept then yes.

If you don't believe in it all or believe it only involves loyalty from player to club then no.

'Webber' has explained this before, maybe you could look up one of his posts. He is a physio and the short answer is it can.

rjay he said it can, not that it "was" the reason. He was never quick and the game has got faster in the 5 years he's been on our list.

No, if he has a career it's good at both Richmond and Melbourne. But I'm assuming any contract Richmond offer him will be well in advance of his current contract at MFC.

TBH I don't think he's all that good a player. It's best for him to take what is being offered to give him the best chance. If he does become elite good on him but I've never seen the pace, lateral movement, strength or disposal skills for him to do that. He's a nice one pace accumulator but I think the pace of the game may have him struggling.

I think Trenners career may be a pathway to nowhere at whichever club he plays. It gives me no pleasure to say that but that's the way I see it.

Unfortunately, I see that too. It's a great pity, because he seems like a great guy and he was one of my favourites early on.

Edited October 11, 201411 yr by AdamFarr

I think the choice here is a) going to Richmond is guaranteed coin irregardless. b) staying at Melbourne ...maybe/maybe not

Reality is Jack is at 'those crossroads' ; like it or not

There are NO more freebies at the Dees. its changed

Trengove has never appeared to me to be the kinda player or person that lines up for freebies...

So Jaded and Pants, if you were his manager what would you advise him to do.

If it's accept the Tiges offer (assuming it's good which it will be), why don't you want the best for the kid?

Different issue BB.

Most would agree his Manager should get him to accept the better offer, especially when we are apparently encouraging the move.

Most are talking about it from our cultural point of view or the price.

I also would like to see a slightly better deal for us if possible.