Viney I'm sure is tired from bearing too much responsibility for a second year player. He needs to be supported in every possible way.

The football dept would be aware of this and I trust their judgement over posters on this forum about the best way of managing him.

As for gifting players like Nicholson farewell games - absurd.

I have highlighted this issue before,. But I dont want Jack Viney to be held up as THE CAUSE. He is still a kid learning. He is a seeball get ball player. The coaches will refine his decision making /skills as he goes along. Think back 4 + years and we were all complaining about Nathan J . Look what he has turned out to be.

I thought we may also have learnt from making Jack Watts as the saviour of the club before thrusting such responsibility onto a young bloke who has a ton of heart.

Throws himself in, at and around everything. Has again taken it's toll on his still developing body. Love the kid, but he is buggered. Fair enough too.

Oh god Jack Viney is the least of our worries!

Point the blowtorch on softcocks like Watts or so called leaders like Dawes and Frawley. All 3 should be dropped for tthe [censored] weak effort they dished up yesterday.

If there were players knocking down the door at Casey to get a game then it might be looked at but....

This is the trouble, the list needs a total overhaul. We will see more than half of it turned over in the next 2 years.

I think a few of yesterdays players were knocking down the door at Casey

You don't think it's relevant to discuss who would come in that would do better? That's exactly what Roos is focused on and what culture is all about, kinda important mate.

I think on his current form and the form of our players at Casey he definitely stays in the team.

It's not sunshine and happiness, it's reality, and the reality is it's our 23-28 year olds that are letting us down, not our 18-20 year olds.

Yes Stuie, it's reality. Jack Viney had 12 disposals (4 kicks) at 58% efficiency from 80% game time. Not only that, his opponent thoroughly beat him on the day. It's not just him, but his form has been pretty average over the last 8 weeks.

The reality is that the whole team let us down (JV included).

How can you put up all those stats and not mention the ones that clearly show him to be among our best three workers - game-high 25 pressure acts.

Watch the replay and you see him chasing and running hard when others don't bother - does that make him tired and in need of a break?

Rohan Bail is another who chases with intent and those who have been knocking him may now realise that even though he turns it over a bit, he is worth his place until we find other more polished hard-working midfielders.

Sure Jack Viney's kicking efficiency has been down of late, but so to has Dunny's and a stack of others because we are getting beaten when we go up the line - partially because half the team now spreads laterally so as to be part of a cheap easy sideways kick.

Thank you for providing a reasonable response, your opinion differs from mine but you don't feel the need to personally attack me/ quote me out of context/ fixate on a throwaway line/ be the other poster I've quoted.

Where did you get the pressure acts stat from? It's hard to quote the stats that show him to be in our top 3 workers when they're not publicly available.

Viney's game yesterday was on par with Bail's recent performances, you can pressure all you want, but if you can't do something with the ball your value is limited. Bail was dropped because despite putting on a heap of pressure, putting in 10 disposal games week in week out isn't good enough.

Viney's kicking efficiency has never been flash, but his disposal over the latter half of the season has been woeful at best. I'd be interested to see where he gets the ball and what he does with it when he has it. He vary rarely (if ever) kicks long in general play.

No Stuie, go on, continue to ignore the reasonable question. Post up gifs. You're so clever. People love you. You're witty. People will miss you when you're gone. When you die the papers will bear the headline 'national tragedy'.

Reality is - you didn't like what I wrote, you couldn't find a logical argument to what I wrote, you resorted to subtle digs, poking holes and posting gif's. Your performance is as bad as the team's yesterday.

Disclaimer – still in emotional despair after attending the match yesterday.

Jack Viney has managed to avoid the blowtorch so far. His second half of the season has been average (at best) and his game today was utterly shocking (12 disposals, 58.3% de). When Roos talks about players missing handballs he is talking about Jack Viney (among others).

I do not know whether he is low on confidence, carrying an injury or simply a young player getting tired, but the following stats just aren’t good enough:

Over the last 8 weeks (averages):

Kicks – 8 pg

Handballs – 9.5 pg

Disposals – 17.5 pg

Disposal efficiency – 62.3%

You look at those stats and say, hmm he’s young, it’s his 2^nd season give him a rest, but let’s dig a little deeper.

You look at that post and think, wow, really should have bailed out at that last sentence.

Yesterdays game showed that the excuse of younger players tiring through a long season is bulldust. GWS youngsters did not look tired at all and have travelled much more then ours have.

Nor Brisbanes youngsters!

yeah lets apply the blpwtorch to one of the only shining lights in this dismal club

give me a break

its his 2nd season, hes carried a massive load and hes tiring toward seasons end.

Viney has the grit and determinatio to be a great player, unlike some others who deserve more heat.

Edited August 18, 201410 yr by Demon Jack

Viney - passion, fire in the belly, love for the MFC - you can't 'priority pick' those traits

Edited August 18, 201410 yr by on the outer

I wish viney could kick - i have noticed all year how bad his kicking is, i'd put him in the Frawley, Grimes, Mcdonald, terlich category of kicking skills. I really hope melbourne work on his kicking. I think i remember Nathan Jones being an average kick at first, but now he is much improved. Bring on next year

You're struggling here, Beats.

JV is the new healing, if this club survives beyond the next TV rights....

Viney suffers from the same disease as Nathan Jones. Courageous player who can get the ball but hasn't got a clue what to do with it. First instinct in the stoppages is to protect the ball and buldoze his way free rather than getting it out quickly by whatever means to a freer player. These two are strangling our clearance work and Jones has been doing it for years.

Another issue with Viney is his kicking especially around goal. Put him in a set shot outside the the 45 degree arc from any distance and he is almost no chance of kicking a goal. Has a lot of positive qualities, courage, work ethic, hardness, strength etc, shames more than half his teamates but I am starting to question if we can ever get any meaningful offensive play out of him. Everytime I see Sam Mitchell play I bemoan why Viney cannot be like him.

No one is immune to criticism when they are a key player in the worst ranked midfiled in the comp.

Edited August 18, 201410 yr by america de cali

Stat's are a only a guide, and often a very poor guide.

Disposal efficiency - could be a skill related issue think Nicholson, Blease, etc

or

it could be an environmental thing!!!

Consider for a moment that you are playing in a team winning the contested ball and look up for an option, and don't see anything presenting as reasonable and more often, not even a red or blue jumper. So you delay your disposal a moment, trying to find a recipient. Consequently the opposition can apply a lot more pressure, resulting in a tackle, smother or at worst a hasty disposal (often still to what would be considered a barely credible option).

Also if you dispose of the ball to where a teammate is meant to be (leading, positioning, etc) but they don't make the effort (a couple of paces short) and the ball hits the ground - whose fault is it. Jogging to/for the ball is not attacking/leading to it.

This perceived dip in form could as much be a reflection on the team "putting the cue in the rack" as inside midfielders like Viney, rely on the outside run (which has dropped of considerably the last few weeks) to dispose of the ball. The also rely on the hard work and 1percenters of players like McKenzie who through blocking, shepherding, etc create time and space to find the best option and dispose of it efficiently.

Viney will come good - but like Nathan Jones before him, will seem to struggle while the majority of the team fails to do their role. Note: I believe the Vineys transition will come quicker as he will benefit from Jones and Tyson in the middle, though the outside run is still a concern.

Edited August 18, 201410 yr by Ungarie boy

I wish viney could kick - i have noticed all year how bad his kicking is, i'd put him in the Frawley, Grimes, Mcdonald, terlich category of kicking skills. I really hope melbourne work on his kicking. I think i remember Nathan Jones being an average kick at first, but now he is much improved. Bring on next year

Viney is a good kick (not say great or elite), but again it comes down to time and options. Judd at his best would struggle to find a target coming out of the Melbourne midfield at present; as he would have 3 players bearing down on him (from different directions) while looking up and seeing Melbourne players leading (running with thier opponents) to the boundary requiring a kick across the body that has to clear the loose man and the third up tall who has left his player because he reads the play better.

Note: two of the best passess from Sunday's game came from Nathan Jones. His kicking has improved because, with maturity (and the addition of Tyson, Cross and Viney to the midfield) he now has the capability to create space. The improvement in his kicking also reflect his confidence to play at this level (AFL top 50, All Australian, etc)

Edited August 18, 201410 yr by Ungarie boy

No Stuie, go on, continue to ignore the reasonable question. Post up gifs. You're so clever. People love you. You're witty. People will miss you when you're gone. When you die the papers will bear the headline 'national tragedy'.

Reality is - you didn't like what I wrote, you couldn't find a logical argument to what I wrote, you resorted to subtle digs, poking holes and posting gif's. Your performance is as bad as the team's yesterday.

Actually, if you can read other peoples posts from so high up on your horse you may have read the post where I used YOUR OWN METHOD of stats calculation to show your idea is flawed because BY YOUR OWN FORMULA McKenzie (the replacement you suggested) would deliver less than Viney is currently.

Just so you don't have to stretch your brain by going back a whole page and reading thoughts other than your own, here it is again for you:

Here's YOUR FORMULA applied to YOUR PICK of player to replace him...

Jordie McKenzie - 9.9 effective disposals per game.

Minus clearances (1.6) that's 8.3

Divided by his disposal efficiency = 6.4pg (you had Viney as 7.5)

Wow, what a step up that would be.....