Why? He has trade value. Him being a good player in a bad team hasn't turned out well. The guy is a bonafide loser and an unwhelmingnleader. Getting 30 possies is easy when you're not damaging nor empowering for your teammates. He goes through the motions.

This is the problem though. Only one of those players was on the field yesterday, and he's a free agent who will be leaving anyway.

I really think Roos needs to be brutal in who he decides to let go. There are some players who need to be traded now while they have value. None of those listed above fall into that category, bar Blease and maybe Tapscott.

I agree, but we have to get rid of them and develop other players, and the key areas we look for are.

1. Kicking ability! Look at Hawthorn, best kicks in the game.

2. Decision making!

Back to the OP it might be way easier to work out who is worth keeping.

Back to the OP it might be way easier to work out who is worth keeping.

its a short list eh !! lol

After the tripe served up today, who is gone (no "everyone" answers).

Having not read anything other than the OP and also not knowing the contract status of most of these players:

Nicholson

Evans

Blease

Strauss

Tapscott

Byrnes - Retired

Clark - Retired

Clisby

That's 8 players from the main list who are clearly not in Roos' plans for the future. Two retired, the rest simply not being played. The fact that Roos has pointed to a skillful running HBF as a need is damning to Clisby and Straus (and Terlich to a lesser extent). He has said we need that role filled but has never given them a chance to play it in the senior side and show what they can do. Blease has had his opportunities at senior level and failed to cement a spot. Tapscott the same. Nicholson and Evens have both had chances and shown they aren't good enough. I think all of them are for the axe, either traded or delisted. We may find ourselves playing out their contracts early to get rid of them and free up space for more trades and Free Agents.

I like your list Viney4pm but I reckon you missed a few.

What about:

Dawes who takes a mark about once every 3 weeks and never overhead.

Jamar who wins lots of ruck taps, most of which go to the opposition and who does nothing around the ground.

McDonald whose kicking is as bad as anyone in the team and his handball is about as good as his kicking.

Garland who is as slow as a wet week.

I was at the G today and the only player I could see who deserved his match payment was big Max Gawn who took a lot of good marks and would have taken a lot more if our own players hadn't kept spoiling him.

That was the worst performance I have seen for a long time (if not ever) and I have been a Demon supporter for a long, long time. That team played like they had never played a game of football in their lives. They can't mark, kick, tackle or handball and they make basic errors time after time. They were pathetic and someone should tell them if they think they are playing flat out - they are kidding themselves.

Lucky You are spot on!Max was great, didnt stop trying even when his mates had given it all away in the third quarter. Fantastic! Now we must move on all the non performers or they will infect those new to the team and we will have another generation of duds

- Dawes: he tries sooo hard every game, but I can see how he can get frustrated, the ball coming into him is terrible, what can we expect from him

- Jamar: good tap ruckman but doesn't give much around the ground. Really time to give Gawn the no.1 ruck spot and maybe play jamar as the 2nd ruckman in the forward line

Lot of people were excited about Dawes earlier this season, but he's come back to the pack to about where I thought he'd be. He's a B grade forward. Still handy but only along side other better forwards. I'd have no hesitation trading him, but doubt it'll happen.

There a bit too much criticism of Jamar for my liking. He's actually been one of the few reliable marks up forward this year. I'd shift him forward more permanently if possible, get a year or 2 more out of his body. He can out muscle just about anyone one on one.

Just had a good look through the list (gulp) here we go:

Keepers

Players I trust: N. Jones, Dunn, Vince, Gawn, Jetta, Cross

Players I expect to join the above group in the next year or two: Hogan, Salem, Viney, Tyson, Kennedy-Harris

On the chopping block (i.e. playing for their futures in the AFL next couple of seasons) : Toumpas, Trengove, Kent, Pedersen (bit harsh on him, but still hasn't cemented his spot), Michie, McDonald, Riley, Hunt, Barry, Georgiou, Spencer, Harmes, Bail, M.Jones, Terlich, King, Fitzpatrick

Players we're probably stuck with until their contracts expire: Dawes, Clisby, McKenzie, Jamar,

Non-keepers

Players I would be looking to trade: Watts, Garland, Grimes, Howe

Free Agent departures: Frawley

Delist: Blease, Strauss, Nicholson, Evans, Tapscott,

Retirees: Byrnes, Clark

Off the back of rpfc's "2014 Contracts Thread" these are the players at risk of delisting:

Retired: Byrnes, Clark

OOC: Frawley (UFA), Tapscott, Blease, Strauss, Bail, Terlich, Nicholson, Harmes ®, King ®, Georgiou ®

Unknown: Clisby, Riley

------

After the weekend for those OOC I really don't know if any will be on our list next year. I think Frawley is a near certainty to leave and I would be moving Tapscott, Blease, Strauss, Terlich and Nicholson on in a heartbeat. With Byrnes retiring and the slight possibility of Clark returning (most likely taking a Rookie position) that is a turnover of 8 off the main list.

Of those that remain the only one I would consider a contract extension is Bail, simply due to his work ethic and the odd bit of nice play this year - placing him ahead of the others on that list. As for the rookies, Harmes and Georgiou would be the only two I would consider keeping on for that second rookie listed year.

Considering we are unsure on Clisby and Riley's situation, if OOC I would consider an extension for Riley but Clisby too would be gone for me (making it 9 off the list).

Then there is the question about trading currently contracted players and the only ones that would bare some value would be a few of our talls like Watts and Fitzpatrick (should have been traded last year).

Jetta will be promoted after a nice break out year and we must take a minimum of 3 draftees in the national draft, therefore based on the above that's 4 additions to the main list leaving a minimum of 4 - 5 players to be recruited or traded in with picks. From rumours 2 may be mature recruits like Malceski and O'Keefe, it also appears we are going hard after a Cameron, Shiel or Mitchell, however after the weekend and in particular Patton going down (rumoured that the Dogs were chasing him hard), Cameron may be harder to acquire than first thought. I also really hope for the likes of Shane Biggs to replace Strauss's spot off the half back line. Then as I said earlier contracted player swaps may come into it, but overall I wouldn't be surprised if the list turnover is around the 10 - 12 mark.

Also I'm not generally one to ask for handouts but I do hope the club again apply for the elusive priority pick on the basis it must be traded so we can attempt to strengthen our list whilst maintaining a fair system for the rest of the competition... let the bidding war begin.

We have the following players on the list that I think are currently AFL standard.

Mids - N Jones, Tyson, Cross, Vince and Viney (maybe Watts and Salem maybe??)

Backs - Jetta, Dunn, Frawley, Garland, Grimes (I know people dont like him but I thought we realy missed him yesterday when he went off) and Macdonald provided he learns to kick

Forwards - Howe and maybe Kent

Rucks - zip

Appologies to Pedo I just dont know ehere he fits in.

A lot on here are ready to get rid of Watts, I have been a big supporter until yesterday. I wouldn't get rid of him (that's way too easy) ....... I would play him at Casey until he was so hungry he could eat a footy, if he doesn't get hungry then I have lost nothing, cause that what he has given us the past few weeks........NOTHIING.

But I'm not prepared to give another club a potential match winner...make him suffer, struth knows he made me suffer yesterday.

A lot on here are ready to get rid of Watts, I have been a big supporter until yesterday. I wouldn't get rid of him (that's way too easy) ....... I would play him at Casey until he was so hungry he could eat a footy, if he doesn't get hungry then I have lost nothing, cause that what he has given us the past few weeks........NOTHIING.

But I'm not prepared to give another club a potential match winner...make him suffer, struth knows he made me suffer yesterday.

With due respect youre missing the point. Forget about worrying over giving anyone else anything just consider it one more NQR off the llst and in return something towards someone who might actually use his body in a contest..That's all

With due respect youre missing the point. Forget about worrying over giving anyone else anything just consider it one more NQR off the llst and in return something towards someone who might actually use his body in a contest..That's all

It burns that Stef Martin (Who i really rated) is killing them at the Lions. Time to draw the line in the sand, it's just too easy to trade them, he owes us !!

Jetta will be promoted after a nice break out year and we must take a minimum of 3 draftees in the national draft,

Sorry to nitpick, the rest of the post was pretty spot on - you only have to use 3 picks in the ND, not take a minimum of 3 (new)draftees - you could take 2 picks and upgrade Jetta if we were only making 3 list changes.

It burns that Stef Martin (Who i really rated) is killing them at the Lions. Time to draw the line in the sand, it's just too easy to trade them, he owes us !!

Maybe he does. Can you get blood from a stone ? Just because the ledger is tilted in one direction doesnt mean you can force it back the other.

Ive spoke ad infinitum with others ( various clubs supporters etc ) and to a man they all agree , Watts just doesnt cut it and doubt he really will.

So the thing is, trade him whilst some fool hasnt quite realised it yet.

Stef was always up for the contest, Im waiting on Jack. There a differenc and just because one regime got it wrong with martin doesnt mean this one might not fare better with JW

I know for a fact Strauss is gone, over heard Mahoney telling someone he will be delisted at the Casey game, and Binga? Whoever that is, someone may know.

If I had to make a list , and I suppose that's the OP's q lol it would comprise the following.

The bleeding obvious :

Clark

Byrnes

Frawley

The likely's:

Strauss

Blease

Nicholson

Terlich

Tapscott

Clisby

The quite possibly's

Mckenzie...delsit probably go into ND

Bail..delist...into ND

Fitzy....good candidate for a trade

Would entertain trades:

Watts

Garland

M Jones

Evans

Grimes

Why? He has trade value. Him being a good player in a bad team hasn't turned out well. The guy is a bonafide loser and an unwhelmingnleader. Getting 30 possies is easy when you're not damaging nor empowering for your teammates. He goes through the motions.

If all the village idiots, from all the villages, left their villages, and made their own village, of idiots. In that village, you would be the village idiot.

Great minds think alike bb

Well I agree with you anyway.

Fairly similar list to myself.

Why? He has trade value. Him being a good player in a bad team hasn't turned out well. The guy is a bonafide loser and an unwhelmingnleader. Getting 30 possies is easy when you're not damaging nor empowering for your teammates. He goes through the motions.

Yeah I'm sick of Jones getting the easy ball..... oh wait he is 8th the league for clearances

Well I'm sick of him going missing in games..... oh hang on, hes got the 4th most disposals of any player in the league this year

Well he doesn't "empower" his teammates and butchers it..... hmmm 2nd in the league for effective disposals...

Maybe you should give yourself a timeout mate?

Watts Frawley Byrnes Clark McKenzie Clisby Blease Strauss Nicholson Evans Tapscott Jamar Bail Jones M Terlich Fitzpatrick

Thats 16

Yeah I'm sick of Jones getting the easy ball..... oh wait he is 8th the league for clearances

Well I'm sick of him going missing in games..... oh hang on, hes got the 4th most disposals of any player in the league this year

Well he doesn't "empower" his teammates and butchers it..... hmmm 2nd in the league for effective disposals...

Maybe you should give yourself a timeout mate?

don't really need the 100+ tackles either

Watts Frawley Byrnes Clark McKenzie Clisby Blease Strauss Nicholson Evans Tapscott Jamar Bail Jones M Terlich Fitzpatrick

Thats 16

I read the '16' line first, thought jnrmac is having a laugh till I read the names. Can't argue much which is sad.

The only one I'd keep is Jamar. He isn't great and won't return to his A/A year but I like him being there as it forces Gawny to work hard for his spot. Gawn was literraly smashing the door down to get a game at Casey and he has been solid since. I think next year Gawn will be the number 1 ruckman for us but I still have doubts on his body. I'd retain Jamar for backup as have no faith in Spencil.

Other than that your list is spot on.

The only players I consider best 22:

FB: Jetta Dunn ****

HB: ***** McDonald *****

C: Vince Jones *****

HF: ***** Dawes *****

FF: **** Hogan Gawn

R: Jamar, Viney, Tyson

Everyone else in the team has some serious work to do and Jamar is on thin ice.

I have no doubt Salem, Trenners, Viney, JKH, Kent, Toump etc will become good players but they are yet to really show this on a consistent basis.

We have a lot of work to do.

I read the '16' line first, thought jnrmac is having a laugh till I read the names. Can't argue much which is sad.

The only one I'd keep is Jamar. He isn't great and won't return to his A/A year but I like him being there as it forces Gawny to work hard for his spot. Gawn was literraly smashing the door down to get a game at Casey and he has been solid since. I think next year Gawn will be the number 1 ruckman for us but I still have doubts on his body. I'd retain Jamar for backup as have no faith in Spencil.

Other than that your list is spot on.

The only players I consider best 22:

FB: Jetta Dunn ****

HB: ***** McDonald *****

C: Vince Jones *****

HF: ***** Dawes *****

FF: **** Hogan Gawn

R: Jamar, Viney, Tyson

Everyone else in the team has some serious work to do and Jamar is on thin ice.

I have no doubt Salem, Trenners, Viney, JKH, Kent, Toump etc will become good players but they are yet to really show this on a consistent basis.

We have a lot of work to do.

I think you're spot on there. In terms of players that give 100% and have the skills to go at AFL level thats about it, even then McDonald has major flaws in his game. I'd probably add Cross into that team there too.

Let's hope that the pre-season is massive and we see big improvements in the rest of our list or we trade in some big names!

If all the village idiots, from all the villages, left their villages, and made their own village, of idiots. In that village, you would be the village [censored].

That is a classic .

5 stars.