On 27/07/2014 at 03:23, beelzebub said:

kids like winners...we ALL like winners.

some might just like the pretty colours .....or that scary name.. oooh like dem Demons !!

oh, Seb Vettel !!! booed on 2013 podiums around the globe.

Alonso struggling in inferior machinary the last few years, roundly loved & cheered all over the world, as a great all round driver . one of the best.

Webber, brides maid constantly, roundly & warmly cheered around the world.

"How will I feel..?"

On the day, just after the final round, we will either have just beaten North or they will have walked on us again. That will have a bigger effect on me than the ladder.

After watching Hawthorn-Sydney the other night, I put on a DVD of the 1990 Elimination Final between Melbourne and Hawthorn. Three things: firstly, I was gripped again by the excitement I used to get watching the footy, even though it was 24 years ago and I knew the outcome; secondly, it was quite something to see that amount of talent we had, all over the ground; and thirdly, the level of skill and hunger and desperation back then was a great deal higher than I remembered it. It made me recognise how numb I have become in the past few years.

I don't particularly care where we finish because the disappointment has been seeping in fairly steadily all year, again, and what I know about our improvement doesn't get me to where I need to be as a supporter. We need some punch-in-the-air triumph, not just incremental one or two steps in the climb out of the cellar. But - if we beat North - the season ends with something that would bring real and vindicating satisfaction. It'll be a litmus test of a last game for the season, for this disappointed and flat-feeling supporter. Something to carry through the summer - a bit of real hope. Who cares where anyone else finishes, in this wreck of a season.

  On 27/07/2014 at 07:27, daisycutter said:

anybody who wouldn't hate getting the wooden spoon is totally lacking in ambition or desire, is mentally disabled or has a hide thicker than a rhinoceros

come to think of it that probably covers a fair few supporters

dunno, I reckon BBO wouldn't be against it, copping the wooden spoon. don't you think daisy? And I think biff is probably the one to give it a wack, as well.

  On 27/07/2014 at 07:43, old dee said:

Mate I lost my daughter to the Bombers 20 years ago for the very reasons you are listing.

However IMO It will make little difference if we win one, two or no more games in the final analysis for 2014.

The only thing that will get children to the MFC is winning more than we lose and playing finals the rest makes no difference

why haven't the sainters gone to the wall years ago OD ? they still have a lot of kids in red back & white, & a lot of supporters regularly at games.

I think your analysis of our predicament needs more thought OD. I think its not just about losses, that stops us getting loads of supporters. its much more than just losses.

  On 27/07/2014 at 12:05, Munga said:

Its not the draft where the top pick is useful, its when its used as currency to secure a shiel or cameron ahead of another club. we need to stop looking at picks as only useful in the draft. picks are currency

for us its the draft where the top picks are useful as trades, for players & pick deals. 2 & 3 would be handy.

  On 27/07/2014 at 10:43, Nasher said:

You strike me as the kind of person who would claim that we wouldn't win a game for the whole season after a poor loss in round 3.

Yep Nasher thats me I am rarely dissappointed with this lot

While we have clearly improved, I'll be really upset if we finish last.

Would mean our improvement wasn't even good enough to overtake St Kilda who had been VFL standard between rounds 7 and 17. Mind you they did beat us, so logic would suggest they deserve to finish higher.

Brisbane on the other hand were clearly playing below themselves in the first half of the year, transitioning to the new coach and recovering from the exodus of 20 year olds. Can fully understand us finishing lower than the Lions as they were coming off back to back 10 win seasons.

On the other hand, and I could be wrong but GWS have that whiff of 'packing up for the season' sending Cameron and Co in for surgery, AKA tanking for pick 1. We could very well beat GWS in round 21 and avoid the spoon then and there.

If we do finish last, I will be less upset than I was those years when we finished last because we tanked/list managed.

We are on the right track but still need at least another draft/trade period to improve the list. Even the supporters who are less concentrated on the goings on of the MFC will be able to see past the ladder position and know we have improved. Haw many 100+ losses have we had this year?

I will be upset if we ask for a PP though. That would be disgraceful and we would deserve the ridicule of opposition supporters.

  On 27/07/2014 at 23:28, S_T said:

If we do finish last, I will be less upset than I was those years when we finished last because we tanked/list managed.

We are on the right track but still need at least another draft/trade period to improve the list. Even the supporters who are less concentrated on the goings on of the MFC will be able to see past the ladder position and know we have improved. Haw many 100+ losses have we had this year?

I will be upset if we ask for a PP though. That would be disgraceful and we would deserve the ridicule of opposition supporters.

what a masochist you are

if we deserve one on performance we should get one

we should have got one last year and the pathetic reasons given by the afl for not getting one have turned out to be wrong

have a look at the history of PPs over the last 10 years and there is no question we should get one

we should go for every competitive gain we can, other clubs aren't so reticent

as for your fear of ridicule from opposition supporters, htfu

A lot of upset people on this thread!

I don't care.

Bottom 4 is bottom 4.

At least finishing last we get the best possible assets for rebuilding the list.

  On 28/07/2014 at 00:02, Machsy said:

I don't care.

Bottom 4 is bottom 4.

At least finishing last we get the best possible assets for rebuilding the list.

There is a serious flaw in this idea.

You need to use them well something we have struggled with in the past.

  On 28/07/2014 at 00:35, old dee said:

There is a serious flaw in this idea.

You need to use them well something we have struggled with in the past.

There is no flaw in it.

Bottom 4 is still bottom 4.

And the best possible assets are still the best possible assets.

Using them is a completely different issue altogether.

But in spite of your infinite wallowing melancholy, have you not noticed the improved performance of the list management team since Harrington departed and the footy department was restructured?

  On 28/07/2014 at 00:40, Machsy said:

There is no flaw in it.

Bottom 4 is still bottom 4.

And the best possible assets are still the best possible assets.

Using them is a completely different issue altogether.

But in spite of your infinite wallowing melancholy, have you not noticed the improved performance of the list management team since Harrington departed and the footy department was restructured?

No struggling to get past your continual put down of anyone with a different view

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it...
If there was a cacophony of angry phone calls to the Junction Oval and a popular uprising (see Paul Roos/Terry Wallace 2003) after that loss to Richmond instead of coiffed, Range Rover driving, Brooks Brothers wearing twerps singing 'We're from Tigerland', the trajectory of our club may have been very different.

How can kids be expected to feel anything for our club when so many of us supposed 'rusted on' supporters here don't seem to take any pride in it?

  On 27/07/2014 at 23:28, S_T said:

If we do finish last, I will be less upset than I was those years when we finished last because we tanked/list managed.

We are on the right track but still need at least another draft/trade period to improve the list. Even the supporters who are less concentrated on the goings on of the MFC will be able to see past the ladder position and know we have improved. Haw many 100+ losses have we had this year?

I will be upset if we ask for a PP though. That would be disgraceful and we would deserve the ridicule of opposition supporters.

Jeez, the wool has been pulled over your eyes...

Do you think the Hawks or Pies were embarrassed to the point where they gave up their PPs a decade ago?

Nah, they used them well and won flags on the back of the talent they got.

Teams don't want us to have a PP because they want to keep their feet on our necks - it amazes me the level that our supporters care about what other supporters think of us - and here it is again in this thread.

Northey used to get the whole club in an "us vs them" lather and we need some more of that around here. Stop caring what your loser friends think of our club - they can GAGF.

We should do what is best for our club.

I don't care about where we finish down the bottom, I don't care about what picks we will get, I even am getting ambivalent about Frawley's decision - all I care about, as Robbiefrom13 said, is how we finish the season and then how we can build the list after the season.

In 2014 we are clearly better than 2013 when we were utter filth. And yet, in 2014 we may finish bottom and one place lower than 2013 despite being 100-times better.

At least we would find out what other clubs are willing to trade for Pick 1 or 2.

We should continue to show improvement

If we do that and finish last it wont bother me so much if we are heading in the right direction....

  On 28/07/2014 at 00:50, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it...

If there was a cacophony of angry phone calls to the Junction Oval and a popular uprising (see Paul Roos/Terry Wallace 2003) after that loss to Richmond instead of coiffed, Range Rover driving, Brooks Brothers wearing twerps singing 'We're from Tigerland', the trajectory of our club may have been very different.

How can kids be expected to feel anything for our club when so many of us supposed 'rusted on' supporters here don't seem to take any pride in it?

because we've the club has learnt to travel in survival mode since the early 70's... we the rusted on are the only few left. all others families have moved on to other clubs like the hawks & pies bombers etc.

Those who are left represent the clubs culture, thru the way we cheer OrClap, & when we cheer, & what we cheer, & what we sneer at. the feral element has long gawn, amongst our dwindling & conservative numbers. only a true inhibited & conservative number are left & the club is in a perpetual 'Limp Mode'.

I have been to games in the past where our supporters have gone off at one of our players for being too rough, or playing dirty.

And another time I witnessed an older Demon woman telling off another middle aged demon woman, for yelling at the opposition player.

we need to open our arms to change, & welcome in the loud & the passionate & outspoken into our diminishing numbers. & we need top spread our arms out around the Dandenong & Casey regions.

So maybe in the past taking too much pride has stifled us in the way of closing off, circling our wagons, building castles with moats, & putting up fences & steel gates & by being to pressious about peoples expression.

Now where are all the grammarians to tell me how to spell, & how to speak???

I think there is a time and a place where there are lines we shouldn't cross. If a Melbourne player has done something beyond the pale, I won't commend him for it.
However, I do reckon you are right in a sense that our support base sometimes is the anti-Richmond in the worst possible way. We shouldn't turn feral at the smallest possible thing (i.e. WYL's reaction after we lost to the Suns in round 6 this year) but I am bloody surprised that it really is no big deal to some here that we are recognized as the worst club in the league.
I am also turning around a bit on your idea on a social venue for the supporters DL. I went to see the Pies vs. the Crows last night with my brother. We dropped over the road for a few ales at the Westpac center prior to the game and I would KILL for us to have a supporters hub like that. It wasn't deep wood panelling, fireplaces or leather couches but it would be bloody galvanizing for the folks who do go there to be surrounded by fellow travellers. I don't think I saw one person there drinking anything besides VB. I got one joke about ski season (and I made it clear that I wouldn't bite back considering where I was) but most people there were all your everyday run of the mill supporter.

I think unfortunately our supporters (and players) are detached from our culture and the club has tried in years gone by to keep them away from the inner sanctum. Jimmy tried to make us more of a community than a workplace but he obviously couldn't have finished the job (though he did have his shortcomings as well).
I don't think it will turn the ship around by any measure as you do DL but once we start getting the basics right, we should look at a social venue. Having supporters rubbing shoulders with each other might kill off the apathy that has pervaded the club for so long and provide a sense of community. The Duke of Wellington has been mentioned and I can see potential there but we should make a move on that front.

  On 28/07/2014 at 01:54, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think there is a time and a place where there are lines we shouldn't cross. If a Melbourne player has done something beyond the pale, I won't commend him for it.

However, I do reckon you are right in a sense that our support base sometimes is the anti-Richmond in the worst possible way. We shouldn't turn feral at the smallest possible thing (i.e. WYL's reaction after we lost to the Suns in round 6 this year) but I am bloody surprised that it really is no big deal to some here that we are recognized as the worst club in the league.

I am also turning around a bit on your idea on a social venue for the supporters DL. I went to see the Pies vs. the Crows last night with my brother. We dropped over the road for a few ales at the Westpac center prior to the game and I would KILL for us to have a supporters hub like that. It wasn't deep wood panelling, fireplaces or leather couches but it would be bloody galvanizing for the folks who do go there to be surrounded by fellow travellers. I don't think I saw one person there drinking anything besides VB. I got one joke about ski season (and I made it clear that I wouldn't bite back considering where I was) but most people there were all your everyday run of the mill supporter.

I think unfortunately our supporters (and players) are detached from our culture and the club has tried in years gone by to keep them away from the inner sanctum. Jimmy tried to make us more of a community than a workplace but he obviously couldn't have finished the job (though he did have his shortcomings as well).

I don't think it will turn the ship around by any measure as you do DL but once we start getting the basics right, we should look at a social venue. Having supporters rubbing shoulders with each other might kill off the apathy that has pervaded the club for so long and provide a sense of community. The Duke of Wellington has been mentioned and I can see potential there but we should make a move on that front.

my idea will only appeal to the small number already here, who would love a club-pub atmosphere to mingle in & have sing-alongs to cheer to.

But there are thousands out there now, & more in the future generations who will love that kind of hospitality & comradeship. These are things for people to bond with & cling onto. a place to spend their passions with other warm & like minded folks.

the idea of a Training & Social Hub is to rekindle the grass roots feel, of getting involved with a Club; rather than toddling off on gameday to the 'G', to rub leather patches with the other gents & gals.

we need one adjacent to the Richmond station, for training & before & after games celebrations and another either at Casey, or the Demons VFL - Dandenong Sth training venue..... melbourne Uni won't make the cut... in fact it will be more arm patches & more tweed jackets. or is that in fact = Less.

  On 28/07/2014 at 01:54, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think there is a time and a place where there are lines we shouldn't cross. If a Melbourne player has done something beyond the pale, I won't commend him for it.

However, I do reckon you are right in a sense that our support base sometimes is the anti-Richmond in the worst possible way. We shouldn't turn feral at the smallest possible thing (i.e. WYL's reaction after we lost to the Suns in round 6 this year) but I am bloody surprised that it really is no big deal to some here that we are recognized as the worst club in the league.

I am also turning around a bit on your idea on a social venue for the supporters DL. I went to see the Pies vs. the Crows last night with my brother. We dropped over the road for a few ales at the Westpac center prior to the game and I would KILL for us to have a supporters hub like that. It wasn't deep wood panelling, fireplaces or leather couches but it would be bloody galvanizing for the folks who do go there to be surrounded by fellow travellers. I don't think I saw one person there drinking anything besides VB. I got one joke about ski season (and I made it clear that I wouldn't bite back considering where I was) but most people there were all your everyday run of the mill supporter.

I think unfortunately our supporters (and players) are detached from our culture and the club has tried in years gone by to keep them away from the inner sanctum. Jimmy tried to make us more of a community than a workplace but he obviously couldn't have finished the job (though he did have his shortcomings as well).

I don't think it will turn the ship around by any measure as you do DL but once we start getting the basics right, we should look at a social venue. Having supporters rubbing shoulders with each other might kill off the apathy that has pervaded the club for so long and provide a sense of community. The Duke of Wellington has been mentioned and I can see potential there but we should make a move on that front.

My reaction was fair & balanced.

And it was right!

  On 28/07/2014 at 02:07, why you little said:

My reaction was fair & balanced.

And it was right!

Is there not a time when we lose and we don't have to send in a coach who is the love child of David Parkin and the Incredible Hulk to burst the ear drums of weeping players? Or we have to sack the club board? Or feather and tar the playing list?

If Melbourne has improved "100%" on last year, but finishes below where it finished last year, does that really signify improvement? It might in some capacity, but it suggests those below Melbourne last year improved more year-on-year in 2014, which would be quite damning and a massive indictment on the inroads made.

It's absolutely integral this team beats Brisbane and GWS. They are absolute must-wins. Anyone that can't see that has rock for brains. Being able to step and stand above those on even footing is a step the team needs to make. Performing against North and Hawthorn (and to a lesser extent, those pretenders in Perf) are important, too, but winning those games isn't all that important in developing this team. Winning when the team is expected to win is a hurdle this team simply hasn't been about to surpass, because they've rarely been in that situation.

Absolutely must beat Brisbane this week. The likes of Jones, Frawley, Dunn, Grimes can't let the team lose. It's their time to step up. Been around for far too long to continuously let this team be stepped on.

It really is time for Jones to take the next step.