My concern regarding any development in Watts is that it just doesn't turn into a "Waiting for Goddard" !!

Yes, Dunn and Pedersen are more comfortable with the physical side of the game (although we all remember the aftermath of Pedersen's first game do we not?).

But that isn't everything in footy is it?

Watts is ahead of Dunn at the same stage in their career - some should stop right now and drink that in a little bit - and Watts has shown more with regard to skill execution and decision making and hard running than many, and all of those have improved markedly over the previous years.

I respectfully disagree with that - what are you basing it on?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3107&tid2=12&pid2=1498&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Dunn was playing as a KPF (remember those stupidly long run ups) or a tagger, Watts is a wing/ loose man in defence atm (not really sure what you would classify his position as atm). Averaging 3 possessions more per game and all other stats are pretty much the same. Hard to say Watts is ahead based on those stats.

I respectfully disagree with that - what are you basing it on?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3107&tid2=12&pid2=1498&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Dunn was playing as a KPF (remember those stupidly long run ups) or a tagger, Watts is a wing/ loose man in defence atm (not really sure what you would classify his position as atm). Averaging 3 possessions more per game and all other stats are pretty much the same. Hard to say Watts is ahead based on those stats.

I saw with my eyes.

And Dunn failed as a tagger and failed as a forward. He had terrible judgment and thought that toughness was one jumper punch away.

In 2013, his 9th year on the list - he established himself as a defender and a member of the best 22.

According to Roos, HFF is the role that Watts can excel in make his own - and is in the process of doing that.

Well ahead of Lynden.

And my point wasn't that all players get 9 years to come through - my point was that the time, patience, and faith shown in certain players should be reciprocated to other players if the coach can see something.

Evidently, Roos can see something.

I saw with my eyes.

And Dunn failed as a tagger and failed as a forward. He had terrible judgment and thought that toughness was one jumper punch away.

In 2013, his 9th year on the list - he established himself as a defender and a member of the best 22.

According to Roos, HFF is the role that Watts can excel in make his own - and is in the process of doing that.

Well ahead of Lynden.

And my point wasn't that all players get 9 years to come through - my point was that the time, patience, and faith shown in certain players should be reciprocated to other players if the coach can see something.

Evidently, Roos can see something.

If ever a position he might do well in is this , and many here have said so for years.. as a high HFF /winger come switch play/ link specialist. Strangely a role we hoped another ex Dee might have taken by the scruff of its neck

HFF for WATTS will work well, when the the two/three best opposition defenders are busy dealing with Dawes, Hogan and on some occassions Gawn will work well once we have some speed and toughness at ground level with rotations from the middle

HFF for WATTS will work well, when the the two/three best opposition defenders are busy dealing with Dawes, Hogan and on some occassions Gawn will work well once we have some speed and toughness at ground level with rotations from the middle

If Watts plays out of sight in a fashion with most genuine defenders concerning themselves with the 'nominated' forwards.. Dawes, Hogan , Pedersen perhaps and co then Watts does have the ability and nouse to be able to bring the ball into the arc and use it constructively.

I don't expect Watts to be a star, but I am confident that he will be a consistent AFL-quality player who can also offer a useful tactical mismatch.

Will he be Adam Goodes? No. Will he be Brendon Goddard? No.

Should we be pushing OUT players who can at least make a useful contribution, when our list leaves us about five players short of an AFL team on any given week? No.

With 6+ 'clearly inadequate' players being churned over at the end of the year, I don't think there's a lot to be gained by rolling through our actual AFL players.

I wonder whether Roos will give Strauss a run before the end of the season. Might not make any difference, but there may be one club out there that thinks they can turn him into a decent footballer?

I wonder whether Roos will give Strauss a run before the end of the season. Might not make any difference, but there may be one club out there that thinks they can turn him into a decent footballer?

They are welcome to try.

Just read the VFL player review this week. very gloomy for several senior players, blunt and honest and hard to see Terlich, Strauss, Evans, Clisby or Evans ever playing AFL again. Best summed up as not up to standard for at least last week and in some cases the last 6 weeks. Grimes, Toump, Pederson and HOGAN back this week

I saw with my eyes.

And Dunn failed as a tagger and failed as a forward. He had terrible judgment and thought that toughness was one jumper punch away.

In 2013, his 9th year on the list - he established himself as a defender and a member of the best 22.

According to Roos, HFF is the role that Watts can excel in make his own - and is in the process of doing that.

Well ahead of Lynden.

And my point wasn't that all players get 9 years to come through - my point was that the time, patience, and faith shown in certain players should be reciprocated to other players if the coach can see something.

Evidently, Roos can see something.

We'll have to agree to disagree, in my opinion, Watts has shown nothing to put himself "well ahead" of Lynden at this point in his career. The assessment of Dunn above is equally true of Watts - has failed in multiple positions, has serious flaws in his game, hasn't established himself in a position 6 years in to his career. If we had any form of depth that could hit a target he would have been dropped multiple times this year.

All that the comment quoted has done is effectively lower my expectations of Watts from a potential Brendan Goddard to a potential Lynden Dunn.

Just read the VFL player review this week. very gloomy for several senior players, blunt and honest and hard to see Terlich, Strauss, Evans, Clisby or Evans ever playing AFL again. Best summed up as not up to standard for at least last week and in some cases the last 6 weeks. Grimes, Toump, Pederson and HOGAN back this week

The assessment of Evans was brutal and it's a continuing theme in the VFL reviews - if he wasn't contracted he'd be a lock to be de-listed.

Summed it up quite well the Beats - Evans I can see getting let go and us paying out his existing contract if a trade can not be found. To me that makes at least 8 gone at years end

Strauss is so bloody frustrating. Any chance of him getting the Jetta treatment, getting delisted and rookied? So skilled, but seemingly doesn't have the chutzpah...

No chance - how many coaches have tried with this bloke(& others) if the penny hasn't dropped now it never will

No chance - how many coaches have tried with this bloke(& others) if the penny hasn't dropped now it never will

How many coaches tried with Jetta?

Im not saying we should rookie list him but like Jetta he has had his fair shair of injuries. Unfortunately his defensive game is very poor compared to Jetta.

Richmond will pick up him and Bleasey.

Bite the bullet with Evans and pay him out. He was drafted as a speedy type with neat disposal. Have not once seen that at all. If he is struggling at VFL level whats the point of hanging on next year when all we will do is top up with more midfield talent.

We'll have to agree to disagree, in my opinion, Watts has shown nothing to put himself "well ahead" of Lynden at this point in his career. The assessment of Dunn above is equally true of Watts - has failed in multiple positions, has serious flaws in his game, hasn't established himself in a position 6 years in to his career. If we had any form of depth that could hit a target he would have been dropped multiple times this year.

All that the comment quoted has done is effectively lower my expectations of Watts from a potential Brendan Goddard to a potential Lynden Dunn.

Roos has played him in every game.

He has established himself.

In Dunn's 7th year he played 11 games.

And Watts will be Watts, not Goddard, not Dunn.

He can be a high HFF that pushes into the forward line with excellent kicking skills and vision.

As a Demon - I want that. I want that player.

AFL 360 - King & McClure doing a review on our list soon.

Will be interesting.

Some wish to debate Watts in the context of progress. That's not bashing it's simply observational critique.A spade is a spade. If you dont like it then thats about you.

Dunn and Pedersen always had some moxy, some mongrel in them.It was just ill directed .I dont think Jack would even know what either word was in reference to. Again, simply observational. As Roos would remind, It is what it is.

pfft... Your angst towards Watts is simply a matter of opinion... you suggested that he has currency, but have only focus on the negative in his game... if your statements are simply observational, why not talk about the part of his game that gives him currency as well?

Not everything is black and white, there are shades of grey here and not all the grey is about Watts... Some of it is about our club..

I don't mind people stating their opinion, thats what this site is about and why I'm here... i do find the constant attacks on Jack's deficiencies boring and a tad embarrassing... Am i a Watts fan? Yes, but I'm also a fan of all MFC players... Would i trade Watts? I would be reluctant, but I'd be reluctant to trade any of our players...

I have observed over years of reading here, that you tend to be very ruthless and dispassionate towards our players... Which i suppose, is a modern footy way of thinking and probably best suited to the modern era... But its a way of thinking that i doubt, ill ever be able to properly grasp...

pfft... Your angst towards Watts is simply a matter of opinion... you suggested that he has currency, but have only focus on the negative in his game... if your statements are simply observational, why not talk about the part of his game that gives him currency as well?

Not everything is black and white, there are shades of grey here and not all the grey is about Watts... Some of it is about our club..

I don't mind people stating their opinion, thats what this site is about and why I'm here... i do find the constant attacks on Jack's deficiencies boring and a tad embarrassing... Am i a Watts fan? Yes, but I'm also a fan of all MFC players... Would i trade Watts? I would be reluctant, but I'd be reluctant to trade any of our players...

I have observed over years of reading here, that you tend to be very ruthless and dispassionate towards our players... Which i suppose, is a modern footy way of thinking and probably best suited to the modern era... But its a way of thinking that i doubt, ill ever be able to properly grasp...

I can discuss him, I can debate him, I can ascribe a value /currency...and do.. As you at least acknowledge its part and parcel of an opinion.

If you bother you can find the aspects I do give credence to as well as those I ( and many others ) don't,but its not necessary..

You are correct in that I for the most part view players dispassionate as i see nothing in doing otherwise. They are participant of the game , in our jumper , only as long as it suits them or us ( MFC) I have no intention of being matey with them ,I have no desire to manifest any joy or such vicariously via them , they are effectively players in a game of chess; nothing more , nothing less.

I appreciate fine football and loathe imposters on the field. I base much of my ideas on a single notion. That by the time you are selected to play in our jumper, representing our club in the highest league of this game that you can at least demonstrate a mastering of its basic skills.

Back to Jack...When he demonstrates more ++++ than ------- then we as a group will probably highlight them.

He has some currency, he has abilities and has truckloads of potential but he's a liability if he cant bring it to the games.

AFL 360 - King & McClure doing a review on our list soon.

Will be interesting.

Really? Do you think?

I'll be filing my nails.....

Dunn's best ever game was as a tagger....

I saw with my eyes.

And Dunn failed as a tagger and failed as a forward. He had terrible judgment and thought that toughness was one jumper punch away.

At last some people are sticking up for Watts.( Roos has a role for him ,now our players have got to use Watts for him to fulfil that role. He is not Jack Viney's substitute) Our greatest ever player in Robbie Flower was a skills machine (and had to play virtually 200 games to play a final).

Alister Clarkson was speaking on 774 earlier in the year when queired as to how players coming into Hwthorns side all play their role and the club is patient with their development. His comment was that Hawthorn were lucky to have a consistent coaching panel and each new player continues to get a clear message throughpout his development phase. Compare that with what our players have put up with in the last 6 years.

On another topic the traders want everyone out and start again after 1 year of a new coaching structure even when we acknowledge we have improved.

please dont ever mention Watts and Flower in same post as though one was entitled to do up the others laces.

Robbie Flower happily engaged a contest, put body on the line tackled effectively and rarely fell over

Watts has ability , Flower is a legend

Flower would have played 300 but for injuries....most incurred in body on body football

Flower was exceptionally skilled and had more bravado as a player than nearly most.His tackles stuck btw

Ask many a player of RF era who was their most difficult opponent.RF gets a big vote.

Cant imagine ANYONE suggesting JW

Flower took on the game..Something JW could emulate

Really? Do you think?

I'll be filing my nails.....

as there dragging the lake??