Post Match Discussion - Round 14

[Gorgoroth 13,019]

I think we were bloody awful today, the amount of terrible decisions made tonight hopefully means next week we won't make many as we used them all up.

Tmac is one of the worst kicks in the league if not mankind. Matt Jones needs to go, Bail too. Both massacre the ball so much it's disheartening.

Mckenzie stays until some one who can actually use the ball can tag as well.

Tyson and Viney were poor tonight, N Jones was back to his run behind for the cheap hand ball which mostly ends in a turn over of a dozen crap handballs then a turn over.

Grimes was terrible, absolutely terrible. A time on hype southern wing/hff he was side by side with Harvey and all he had to do was body Harvey of the line then get the ball, instead he flapped around in a tu-tu and watched Harvey beat him to the ball. Was pathetic.

Garland is struggling, not surprisingly.

Howe looked lost tonight.

God I hate Norf.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

It's not great that Casey isn't the nurturing environment we want it to be.....

Dropping a player back there is counter productive to development atm.

[Sambo06 222]

I'd have no problem with JKH coming back but I just don't think Salem has the tank to run out a game or particularly against hard running opposition.

Jack Viney looked very tired today and we have to understand that he's very young as is Salem and Tyson.

Giving them games for the sake of it is something that Roos said he didn't want to do, they mustn't have a sense of entitlement.

Robbie, I see where your coming from, but we aren't going to be winning Premierships in the next few years. I don't think they would have a sense of entitlement. They were picked by smart men not only because of their footy ability, but also for their good character. I think if we show some faith in them now, we will be paid back double, and more, in the years to come. Viney had how many touches in the first quarter playing half forward. He ended with 20 for the game when moved back on ball. Let's show the kids some faith and teach them in the firsts where they will be playing for the next 10/12 years. Put some experience into them, trade in another senior leader and draft some more class, and you watch these guys! I have faith in where the Club is at and where they are trying to get us.

[Sambo06 222]

It's not great that Casey isn't the nurturing environment we want it to be.....

Dropping a player back there is counter productive to development atm.

This.

[SaberFang 7,151]

I like the Roos mantra of "earning spots" in the team, but crikey I think it'd be bloody hard to do it at Casey. This alignment isn't working, does not develop our youngsters, and does not help get the best out of our team's youth.

Really feel for the guys down there trying to string together consistent games when the team as a whole is so awful and directionless. It's probably hard to shine as a midfielder at Casey with some of the absolute clangers you'd be getting every 5 minutes from Nicho.

Perhaps confusingly for players, they're being told constantly you need to be a "team player" at the MFC now, and (as shown again tonight in Vince's post match interview) individually brilliant performances are looked at as almost counterproductive to team player mantra.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Lamashtu

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

Bad team plays bad football. Not really a shock there.

Viney and Tyson should be half forwards but instead are in the guts. Kent and Salem (and JKH) should be interchanged through the sub role and VFL yet are critical class players in our forward half yet.

Against a North side that's beat Syd, Freo and Port this year it's hard to even get in to the game with that level of youth.

A backward step but that happens.

I want to win a premiership and that means we have to build from the ground up and build properly. And that means recognising mistakes now. I look at North and I see there best two options to goal being Petrie and Boomer Harvey. I see them constantly play a man behind the ball and I see them playing guys who make the same mistake over and over. And I think well that's just us in a few years without any form of serious striving for perfection. I hope we are better than that.

[Return to Glory 8,448]

It's not great that Casey isn't the nurturing environment we want it to be.....

Dropping a player back there is counter productive to development atm.

Couldn't agree more Jumbo. On that basis, I'd give Toumpas and Blease an extended run in the ones unless they are terrible. Toumpas is floundering there IMO and its not helping at all.

[Earl Hood 6,101]

Lazy effort today. Stop start. No running up the field. Kicking to position was atrocious with players continually sitting under the ball waiting to get smashed by some nobody Roos player.

Howe had his worst game for a long time. Either went up as a third man and took out two of his team mates or hit it to a Roos player.

Dean Kent hardly sighted. Viney did nothing. Salem looked tired. Pedo didn't seem to do anything and was surprised how many stats he had.

Bail was very ordinary. Jetta has his colours lowered. Jamare was smashed. Tyson was ineffective.

NJones tried hard but has to stop calling for the ball when he is in a bad position. Too many times today he ran behind a player looking for a cheap h/ball and he got pounced on.

Bernie was stellar.

Our kick ins were unbelievably repetitive. We would huddle. The Roos would zone. Dunn would chip to himself, run to the right side and shoot a low bullet to a 2 on 1.

Really disappointing day. They are a cra p football club with cra p supporters.

Jamar smashed?? 41 hit outs, a great mark that set up a goal, I think three centre clearances. Yes he can do better but smashed?

Jetta battled on, N Jones was off today and that had an impact on our performance. We were over run by numbers, North had heaps of running players inside and outside. We often had inside numbers but no one on the outside to receive, carry and deliver at speed to a forward. That is a why our boys need to learn but we do need more genuine runners.

Yes I believe Salem, maybe even Tyson need a break but it is general soreness and a week off. Not Casey where no one is gaining any confidence. They are a rabble on yesterday's effort.

[rpfc 28,779]

So many simple mistakes made, and by our best players.

That game was even if not for our catastrophic mistakes that led to NM goals.

And Salem needs to play for Casey for a month.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Definitely our worst effort this year outside of the West Coast debacle.

40 points flattered us, immensely. They made a lot of mistakes, granted, but we were really deplorable I thought. A lot of what we've been doing right for most of the year we did wrong. Bad decision-making, lack of options forward of the ball, being caught behind our opponents, and terrible kicking.

Might have been Nathan Jones' worst game for us in a long time. He lacked cleanliness with his first touch, turned it over much more than usual, and called for dinky handpasses out the back when he was in no position to ask for them. We notice it when he's down on form, really notice it.

Garland is a shadow of his 2013 self. In an ideal world I'd drop him I think. Salem also should be heading back to Casey, though I'm not sure we really have the players to be making many changes. McKenzie didn't do that well this week at tagging, which makes him pretty mediocre. Viney was really poor too, whilst Tyson was down on what he is capable of.

On the flipside, Vince was incredible, Cross superb, Dawes lifted his game from the previous month, Jetta started poorly but improved a lot as the game went on, and I thought Jamar did pretty well in the circumstances (Goldstein is a lot more mobile than him but he didn't really impact the game I thought).

[Little Richard 6,265]

Bad team plays bad football. Not really a shock there.

Viney and Tyson should be half forwards but instead are in the guts. Kent and Salem (and JKH) should be interchanged through the sub role and VFL yet are critical class players in our forward half yet.

Against a North side that's beat Syd, Freo and Port this year it's hard to even get in to the game with that level of youth.

A backward step but that happens.

I want to win a premiership and that means we have to build from the ground up and build properly. And that means recognising mistakes now. I look at North and I see there best two options to goal being Petrie and Boomer Harvey. I see them constantly play a man behind the ball and I see them playing guys who make the same mistake over and over. And I think well that's just us in a few years without any form of serious striving for perfection. I hope we are better than that.

Seriously? Viney and Tyson are two of our best extractors. Their inconsistencies can be put down to age and inexperience but if you took both of them out of the middle, we'd be far worse off with only Jones and Vince doing the dirty work.

One or two more experienced, similar players to Vince would do wonders for our side at the moment.

[DeeZee 7,445]

One thing im sure on is Roos says you have to earn games, but guys like Garland, Grimes, Bail,Riley havent set the world on fire, but keep getting games, must give guys like Blease, Georgiou,Toumpas and Michie little confidence.

[Sambo06 222]

Jamar smashed?? 41 hit outs, a great mark that set up a goal, I think three centre clearances. Yes he can do better but smashed?

Jetta battled on, N Jones was off today and that had an impact on our performance. We were over run by numbers, North had heaps of running players inside and outside. We often had inside numbers but no one on the outside to receive, carry and deliver at speed to a forward. That is a why our boys need to learn but we do need more genuine runners.

Yes I believe Salem, maybe even Tyson need a break but it is general soreness and a week off. Not Casey where no one is gaining any confidence. They are a rabble on yesterday's effort.

If the young guys need a break, give them a break. But not at Casey. [censored] them on the track for a long session during the week if we have to, but give them the weekend off. Make them sit in the Coaches box and listen to what goes on during the game. Surely there is no better way of learning?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

N Jones was back to his run behind for the cheap hand ball which mostly ends in a turn over of a dozen crap handballs then a turn over.

What annoys me most about this is he is (although Jones is not alone with this) often forced to run on an angle when he receives the ball and therefore kick the ball wide to the boundary.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

When we kick out from behinds, we go wide and I get that. I also understand were about 2-3 skilful mids off playing the corridor when moving the ball up the ground. What I don't get is when we win the centre clearance we still go bloody wide. Let's back our forwards in, when we've won the clearance go long and direct before the opposition gets numbers back.

Watts has lost me for the time being.

Need to make tackles stick, if your tackling someone and they can offload a handball your tackle is ineffective. Saw a lot of that tonight. Along with players getting pushed off to easily.

We are improving but still a few changes to be made at years end.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Also, the kick-ins. The huddle may have worked last week, but it doesn't work when you do the same thing every time - Dunn plays on to himself, runs 5 metres, then kicks a beautiful long kick 50 metres down the line in the Jamar vicinity, where North Melbourne know it is going so they can either intercept the ball or stop our forward movement. As it always does at this club, it got too predictable too quickly.

When we kick out from behinds, we go wide and I get that. I also understand were about 2-3 skilful mids off playing the corridor when moving the ball up the ground. What I don't get is when we win the centre clearance we still go bloody wide. Let's back our forwards in, when we've won the clearance go long and direct before the opposition gets numbers back.

Watts has lost me for the time being.

Need to make tackles stick, if your tackling someone and they can offload a handball your tackle is ineffective. Saw a lot of that tonight. Along with players getting pushed off to easily.

We are improving but still a few changes to be made at years end.

FFS - Watts was one of our best today. He needs to make tackles stick, sure, but so do pretty much 21 other Melbourne players. Meanwhile at least Watts ran hard, presented, and hit a target when he kicked.

[Earl Hood 6,101]

Definitely our worst effort this year outside of the West Coast debacle.

40 points flattered us, immensely. They made a lot of mistakes, granted, but we were really deplorable I thought. A lot of what we've been doing right for most of the year we did wrong. Bad decision-making, lack of options forward of the ball, being caught behind our opponents, and terrible kicking.

Might have been Nathan Jones' worst game for us in a long time. He lacked cleanliness with his first touch, turned it over much more than usual, and called for dinky handpasses out the back when he was in no position to ask for them. We notice it when he's down on form, really notice it.

Garland is a shadow of his 2013 self. In an ideal world I'd drop him I think. Salem also should be heading back to Casey, though I'm not sure we really have the players to be making many changes. McKenzie didn't do that well this week at tagging, which makes him pretty mediocre. Viney was really poor too, whilst Tyson was down on what he is capable of.

On the flipside, Vince was incredible, Cross superb, Dawes lifted his game from the previous month, Jetta started poorly but improved a lot as the game went on, and I thought Jamar did pretty well in the circumstances (Goldstein is a lot more mobile than him but he didn't really impact the game I thought).

N Jones, not a good game but is not his wife due tomorrow, he may not have his mind focused? That is my take. Salem a week off. Maybe Tyson a break as well, but not to Casey. Maybe Viney to sub? Need to freshen up some kids.

Remember Garland had no preseason and he tried hard today I thought.

In the end we didn't play o our own game plan but maybe that was because Bernie was having a blinder in the first half?

And special mention to Jack Watts who as we all know could always seem to do more but some of his stuff today was top shelf, setting up plays, holding the ball until there was an option, but yes there was the odd missed opportunity in there as well, but that is Jack.

[Coq au vin 755]

They went lower at the contest, they ran harder and faster both ways and executed skills better. The only positives were Vince's form and that last year that would have been an 80+ point loss. Now 40 point losses are annoying rather than an acceptance of an ok performance.

This post is spot on. I was at the game. Norf were faster by a long shot. Their leading and marking and sequence of leads and marks in front of our players were way better. They were a class above. I'm not sure speed can be taught. We need some faster, bigger bodied players. Also our skill levels were bad: marking was poor, hand passing indecisive and to the wrong options and kicks resulting in true overs were back. There were a lot of poor decisions going forward into the 50 but also no forward structure. Dawes seems be the only target but doesn't lead out and doesn't get into position away from other players in space and doesn't know how to out body the tagger well enough yet. We need a couple more big fast forwards to take the pressure off him. Bring on Jesse Hogan (when physically ready of course)!

[Dee Fan 3,247]

So many simple mistakes made, and by our best players.

That game was even if not for our catastrophic mistakes that led to NM goals.

And Salem needs to play for Casey for a month.

At one point 3 Melbourne players flew for the mark in the backline and 3 Norf players sat behind waiting for the ball to spill, which it did when our guys spoiled each other, end result a goal for them.

We seemed to have no one on the outside to receive and had too many crowded around the ball making a handball to advantage impossible. It was pure crap today and how we didn't get beaten by 10 to 15 goals is beyond me, if Bernie wasn't there it would have been nasty.

I guess you have one of these games every now and then when 90% of the team are off their game.

[Coq au vin 755]

Turnovers

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

Also, the kick-ins. The huddle may have worked last week, but it doesn't work when you do the same thing every time - Dunn plays on to himself, runs 5 metres, then kicks a beautiful long kick 50 metres down the line in the Jamar vicinity, where North Melbourne know it is going so they can either intercept the ball or stop our forward movement. As it always does at this club, it got too predictable too quickly.

FFS - Watts was one of our best today. He needs to make tackles stick, sure, but so do pretty much 21 other Melbourne players. Meanwhile at least Watts ran hard, presented, and hit a target when he kicked.

Yep agree. Watts was probably our second best today. And led to a bunch of our better scoring plays. He's getting stronger in contests and getting more confidence in his game.

You can teach Watts to defend and lift his standards. It's happening right now. And probably happening quicker than some of our players are fixing their deficiencies.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

N Jones, not a good game but is not his wife due tomorrow, he may not have his mind focused? That is my take. Salem a week off. Maybe Tyson a break as well, but not to Casey. Maybe Viney to sub? Need to freshen up some kids.

Remember Garland had no preseason and he tried hard today I thought.

In the end we didn't play o our own game plan but maybe that was because Bernie was having a blinder in the first half?

And special mention to Jack Watts who as we all know could always seem to do more but some of his stuff today was top shelf, setting up plays, holding the ball until there was an option, but yes there was the odd missed opportunity in there as well, but that is Jack.

Possibly correct on Jones, might have been on his mind.

Disagree on Garland - I thought he was pretty soft today. A couple of times he needed to get back into a pack and just stopped and watched the ball go over his head. Looked lost a few times and slow at others. Really nothing out of today's game was a positive IMO. We know it's there, hopefully it comes back.

At one point 3 Melbourne players flew for the mark in the backline and 3 Norf players sat behind waiting for the ball to spill, which it did when our guys spoiled each other, end result a goal for them.

We seemed to have no one on the outside to receive and had too many crowded around the ball making a handball to advantage impossible. It was pure crap today and how we didn't get beaten by 10 to 15 goals is beyond me, if Bernie wasn't there it would have been nasty.

I guess you have one of these games every now and then when 90% of the team are off their game.

I think twice all our defenders went up into the pack, one of which led directly to a goal out the back.

Then it happened in the forward line too, when we actually had a bit of momentum at the start of the third. Kent should have stayed down in the goalsquare but he got sucked into the pack and then missed the crumb.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Did I mention how much I despise North?!

They are huge downhill skiers, and we played so loose and turned it over so much, they were in their element. Infuriating.

Can't stand being their b$tches anymore.

[chook fowler 19,546]

See Brown is now declared Norths new cult hero -how many of those have we created in opposition teams over the years.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

In previous years a showing like that would have been a 100 plus point loss, we have a come a long way but really we are our own worst enemies,

We have a few players who's bad skills are costing us, and holding them back

Jack grimes could be one of the best half backs in the comp if he was better with his skills and decision making