GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[Beats 190]

I'm interested to know what posters here are thinking when they make comments about Frawley like:

"I think 600-700 is about what he is worth" and the like....

WTF would people here know about what Frawley is worth?

Salary cap management is incredibly difficult and every club has a team of people working full time on all the permutations and combinations. The salary cap has to be paid to someone. It is increasing all the time. It is as much art as science with the possible scenarios and timing of players contracts.

It annoys me that some posters make blanket statements about a players dollar value when mostly they have no freaking idea. Some are jealous because they would give their left knacker to don the guernsey (not you Sue!). Some earn $50k a year and think any football player on $100k should thank their lucky stars.

Who cares? We want the best list possible. I don't give a flying about what we pay the players as long as they perform..

Those that announce "Frawley is only worth xxxx" should STFU....

Glad thats off my chest......

Arguing semantics, but worth/ value etc are subjective and in this situation they are relative to the perceived benefit of having the player at the club. Someone assigning a value to a player is no different to saying a player is terrible, it's a person on a forum posting their opinion.

As you say, we want the best list possible and the club employs a team of full time staff to work towards this goal. The club also employs a team of recruiters, that doesn't mean that people can't speculate on what trades to make/ picks to use etc. At the end of the day it's just speculation from an amateur.

That being said, Frawley is only worth $500,000.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Arguing semantics, but worth/ value etc are subjective and in this situation they are relative to the perceived benefit of having the player at the club. Someone assigning a value to a player is no different to saying a player is terrible, it's a person on a forum posting their opinion.

As you say, we want the best list possible and the club employs a team of full time staff to work towards this goal. The club also employs a team of recruiters, that doesn't mean that people can't speculate on what trades to make/ picks to use etc. At the end of the day it's just speculation from an amateur.

That being said, Frawley is only worth $500,000.

Agree. Some may not wish nor even like to put values on players but its as much a part of the composite as any other issue.

Like it or not money plays a very large part in this game and whether its dream team or reality ...players have a worth whether that be perceived m market or just plain wish ful thinking

[rpfc 28,263]

I'm interested to know what posters here are thinking when they make comments about Frawley like:

"I think 600-700 is about what he is worth" and the like....

WTF would people here know about what Frawley is worth?

Salary cap management is incredibly difficult and every club has a team of people working full time on all the permutations and combinations. The salary cap has to be paid to someone. It is increasing all the time. It is as much art as science with the possible scenarios and timing of players contracts.

It annoys me that some posters make blanket statements about a players dollar value when mostly they have no freaking idea. Some are jealous because they would give their left knacker to don the guernsey (not you Sue!). Some earn $50k a year and think any football player on $100k should thank their lucky stars.

Who cares? We want the best list possible. I don't give a flying about what we pay the players as long as they perform..

Those that announce "Frawley is only worth xxxx" should STFU....

Glad thats off my chest......

YES! You are my poster of the week, jnrmac.

[Hot as Hell 466]

I'm interested to know what posters here are thinking when they make comments about Frawley like:

"I think 600-700 is about what he is worth" and the like....

WTF would people here know about what Frawley is worth?

Salary cap management is incredibly difficult and every club has a team of people working full time on all the permutations and combinations. The salary cap has to be paid to someone. It is increasing all the time. It is as much art as science with the possible scenarios and timing of players contracts.

It annoys me that some posters make blanket statements about a players dollar value when mostly they have no freaking idea. Some are jealous because they would give their left knacker to don the guernsey (not you Sue!). Some earn $50k a year and think any football player on $100k should thank their lucky stars.

Who cares? We want the best list possible. I don't give a flying about what we pay the players as long as they perform..

Those that announce "Frawley is only worth xxxx" should STFU....

Glad thats off my chest......

Whilst you make a valid observation that posters are not privy to the intricacies of the MFC salary cap and its consequential list management strategies, you should also leave some room for some posters to be aware of the contracts offered to various players in the comp especially when they have been made public.

Excluding product endorsements or player services arrangments (which are clearly confidential), the playing contract values of many high profile players is public knowledge. The financial arrangments for guys like Ablett, $cully, Tippett, and more recently Frankiln who have changed clubs is public knowledge and therefore sets a benchmark for the remuneration level of the competition's (so called) elite players.

Ranking players value below these benchmarks, while arbitrary, is certainly possible. No one would pay $10 for a can of coke, probably you'd pay up to $4-$5. But if you were dying of thirst, the value naturally goes up. In the case of Frawley, we arguably know roughly where he sits in the general player rankings. He is in the 40-60 of the comp. Not elite, but in the top quintile and certainly one of lowly MFC's better players. That would set a "market value" salary of at least $550,000 p.a. Beyond that, his premium value, either to hold or to get, could range from $100k -$250k depending on how "thirsty" the interested clubs are. So he may well be worth $600 -$750k p.a.

The then question each club must face, MFC especially, is if they pay this level what does that do to their salary cap over the period of his contract. After all his contract was front end loaded by MFC at the trime CC was expecting to make room for the "young guns" we had recruited 3 years back. Again, this is public knowledge as it was stated at various Foundation Heroes functions at the time. That front end contract now bites us in the bum because we may lose him to free agency and our crew of "young guns" have either left, underperformed or are injured. That's life. We tried to manage our list and salary cap, but fate intervened (i.e. Mitch Clark now gone).

I like Chip and want him to stay. He is worth somewhere in between a defined range of $550k - $750k (not rocket science). Can we fit him in the cap, of course we can. Do we have the $$, maybe maybe not. If we do fit him in at top dollar, that means we have less to offer existing players as they mature/develop, and of course less in our pocket to entice new developed players to the club. We can't compete against the expansion clubs or Sydney who are afforded concessions and $$ from the AFL. We can't stop Geelong (for example) to pay over the odds as they think Chip will be a great asset to release Taylor up forward.

Oh, and lastly but most importantly to this whole question is actually, what is Chip looking for? Money will be only one element, but clearly enjoying on field success will be just as important. If the Hawks made an offer of less $$ they may get Chip's nod for their potential to win a flag. It could be Adelaide or the Swans or Freo. Same deal - finals footy, classy colleagues etc etc may tip the scales.

On the other hand, has Chip bought into the Roos reformation? He would undoubtedly love to be a one club player, but will that club ever play finals? His managers will naturally be looking to get top dollar for him and a long contract to secure their own best interests. Now ain't that conflicted remuneration at its best!

I would hope that you could accept some resonance of intelligence and logic amongst posters to throw some numbers into the ring for argumentative purposes. It demeans your argument to bark out loud "STFU". You should be mindful that neither you nor I know exactly who the posters are on this site and what they know or don't know. I am certain you know the play on syllables about what can happen when you "ASSUME" too many things that you are not certain about.

And I am glad I got that off my chest!

[rpfc 28,263]

What a wall of text. Dappa Dan circa 5 years ago would be proud...

And it is frustrating to read that player X is worth $500k and Y is worth $300k, because posters are not making a real effort to know what players are actually worth, what we have to pay them (to reach the cap floor), and the fact that our issue is getting good players - not overpaying them.

[beelzebub 23,313]

rpfc for all such hot windedness take a bow yourself mate

Many of us fully appreciate there are caps...someone has to get paid...apparently irrespective of worth /effort etc.

There is genuine space for the simple comparative discussion of player X and Y for this dollar or that

Many of us compare what players at other clubs might be getting and think that some of ours are on a pretty good wicket !!

So if I or anyone dont think Frawley happens to be worth 700 over 5 years its as simple as that

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

Frawley isn't worth $700k to us. But it maybe his price on the market if 5-6 clubs bid for him.

Roos has signed on further. Time for Chip to show his hand

[Bitter but optimistic 22,219]

played golf with someone who knows a canadian living in Perth who knows Mike Pike --Frawleys signed with the swans

If this is taking the pi ss - I love it.

If serious - FMD!!

[jumbo returns 6,740]

If this is taking the pi ss - I love it.

If serious - FMD!!

Damian Barrett believes that Chip has signed with the Swans.....

[71 Molloy 266]

Damian Barrett believes that Chip has signed with the Swans.....

My god, Eddie would go apoplectic. Would almost be worth losing him........except for the warrior being right about something......

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Damian Barrett believes that Chip has signed with the Swans.....

Where did the little rat say that?

Surely they wouldn't have that sort of money laying around unless Goodes retires.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

Where did the little rat say that?

Surely they wouldn't have that sort of money laying around unless Goodes retires.

On the footy show last week....he cited maxwell (leaving or retiring) malceski (being wooed) and Goodes (retiring)...

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

On the footy show last week....he cited maxwell (leaving or retiring) malceski (being wooed) and Goodes (retiring)...

Wow if he ends up at the swans the AFL community could riot

[jumbo returns 6,740]

Wow if he ends up at the swans the AFL community could riot

Eddie will blow up.

The Swans have managed their list well.

They've underpaid their players for several years now because of their success and winning culture.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Eddie will blow up.

The Swans have managed their list well.

They've underpaid their players for several years now because of their success and winning culture.

if they are paying Tom Mitchell 400k a year then they have seriously managed their finances well.

[Machsy 2,858]

Jaksch v Tomlinson

195cm v 193cm

KPP v KPF

pick 12 in 2012 v pick 9 in 2011

I'd go for Tomlinson personally.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Jaksch v Tomlinson

195cm v 193cm

KPP v KPF

pick 12 in 2012 v pick 9 in 2011

I'd go for Tomlinson personally.

Tommlinson is more established, and I think ready to take the next step

[DemonOX 8,787]

Damian Barrett believes that Chip has signed with the Swans.....

Good to c ferret gets the scoop.

Mike Sheehan said this weeks ago on OTC.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

I'm interested to know what posters here are thinking when they make comments about Frawley like:

"I think 600-700 is about what he is worth" and the like....

WTF would people here know about what Frawley is worth?

Salary cap management is incredibly difficult and every club has a team of people working full time on all the permutations and combinations. The salary cap has to be paid to someone. It is increasing all the time. It is as much art as science with the possible scenarios and timing of players contracts.

It annoys me that some posters make blanket statements about a players dollar value when mostly they have no freaking idea. Some are jealous because they would give their left knacker to don the guernsey (not you Sue!). Some earn $50k a year and think any football player on $100k should thank their lucky stars.

Who cares? We want the best list possible. I don't give a flying about what we pay the players as long as they perform..

Those that announce "Frawley is only worth xxxx" should STFU....

Glad thats off my chest......

As I was reading the last few pages of this thread this comment was brewing in my mind, but I'm glad you've made it for me.

It is laughable that any of us can make any reasonable judgement about what Frawley is 'worth'. How the feck would any of us have the faintest, unless we are involved in player management in some capacity?

[Undeeterred 3,123]

Agree. Some may not wish nor even like to put values on players but its as much a part of the composite as any other issue.

Like it or not money plays a very large part in this game and whether its dream team or reality ...players have a worth whether that be perceived m market or just plain wish ful thinking

Yes, of course it does, but how would you or I or anybody else be able to attach that value sensibly?

[beelzebub 23,313]

Yes, of course it does, but how would you or I or anybody else be able to attach that value sensibly?

we're not able to take note of what other players get ??

[Undeeterred 3,123]

Sure you can take note, but how about this:

• How many players can you realistically name as knowing their contract value?
• Of those, how many are you sure about and how many are media speculation? and
• Have you adjusted for time, salary cap pressure at particular clubs, and various other list management strategies that were going on when those deals were signed?

If you can say yes to all of this, then I applaud you.

Otherwise, you're just making stuff up.

[Demon Disciple 12,068]

Jaksch v Tomlinson

195cm v 193cm

KPP v KPF

pick 12 in 2012 v pick 9 in 2011

I'd go for Tomlinson personally.

If Frawley were to go, i'd try to get both.

Would offer them the CP we get for Frawley (assuming it's after 1st pick), but no more, hell i'd even ask for O'Rourke.

Or maybe a super deal along the lines of picks 3&4 for Jaksch, Tomlinson, Shiel and O'Rourke.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Demon Disciple

[Pipefitter 2,150]

I hate free agency but where we are on the ladder makes the deal better for us. There's no way we would ever get pick 3 for Frawley in a trade, but thats what we will get when he leaves as a free agent. Stay or go, we win.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

As I was reading the last few pages of this thread this comment was brewing in my mind, but I'm glad you've made it for me.

It is laughable that any of us can make any reasonable judgement about what Frawley is 'worth'. How the feck would any of us have the faintest, unless we are involved in player management in some capacity?

Because its a football forum and ppl are allowed to share their opinion!

Don't get me wrong you're right about the majority of us have no idea but we are allowed an opinion on the matter