Post Match Discussion - Round 8

[Chook 15,012]

It has developed far beyond what it should have. I was merely pointing out that grand statements should be tempered a bit when he's played 4 games. Pedantic? Maybe.

This all has a bit of twilight zone about it. It doesn't seem long ago that the bulk of demonland it seemed was saying Jetta had no future and I was one of the ones advocating for him to be given another chance. He beats Eddie Betts and now he's our most valuable player.

Very odd.

I credit myself with his turnaround. For five years I've been his biggest backer, and then the moment I jump off him in his return a few weeks ago he proceeds to tear up Eddie Betts and turn his career around.

[beelzebub 23,312]

(not sure what happened to the post then its down here lol )

great appraisal there RN vvvvvv

Edited May 13, 2014 by beelzebub

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I read your post and remember the incident clearly.

Here are some explanations.

1. Watts was covered, the player had the ball and was moving backwards from the mark when Watts pointed to the space between him and the boundary. If he'd led early the space would have been taken before the player could kick the ball. Watts was indicating where he wanted the ball and was waiting for the kick so he could lead into it.

2. Watts was leaving the space for JKH to lead into and not taking it from him as JKH had separation on his opponent and Watts didn't. Watts could then lead into the space behind JKH.

3. Watts is a lazy good for nothing footballer who couldn't be bothered running the 25 metres to make a lead and just thought FU.

Out of those three explanations I'd take the third one as least likely as it wasn't in keeping with the rest of his game and doesn't make sense. But you highlighted it as the only negative in your whole post. You must really dislike Watts

come on BB.

you have been a better judge of football in the past than that. of the 3 options which do you think it is? if you remember the moment, the player with the ball was actually holding it for a fair while as no players were free. But surely you have watched enough footy by now that if a player is manned up, they usually try to break off and get a step in front of their opponent dont they? this isnt me bashing on watts, he is a good kid and he had some good moments for the game. what i did say, if you read my post like you mentioned, was that it showed the difference in effort between the 2. one, a 70kg first year player who puts his body on the line whenever he needs to and works hard at every contest, vs a 6th year 196cm player who still isnt quite able to deliver intensity for 4 quarters.

wouldnt you prefer BB if we could both watch and know every player is giving everything and working hard at every contest, not just occasionally?

Guys i think like many issues on these matters the answer lies somewhere in between and also depends on the passage of play under scrutiny.

If we scrutinised every player's passages of play (which the FD will be doing anyway post match for Monday review) you will find that there's improvement to be had in many passages, then there's some highs and some lows that need working on. In some cases a neutral outcome etc.

For a high with both players involved (mostly Watts) please watch the piece of play from the ball up/stoppage with 7:05 left on clock in the first quarter.

To summarise:

Stoppage play. Watts spots Cooney on his own before ball up and decides to run with him. Wise move. Bail running alongside Cooney also sees this but allows Watts to go to Cooney. Bail Spots Dahlhaus on his right, also on his own, he points this out (not sure to who) and decides not to got to him (maybe under instruction if this is his direct opponent). So in this stoppage the 2 loose players are Bail and DaulHaus. Peddo and Jones compete for the ball up, the ball goes to ground as Viney works his way in front of Libba (who by the way holds/impedes him as he goes for the ball....no free kick) to get to the drop in front position (good work). However, after a brief tussle with Tyson, Boyd goes to ground and manages to get a toe into the ball while on the ground, kicking it just away from Viney allowing Libba to get first touch sliding in from behind. Libba then scoops the ball under him with one hand while being wing tackled by Viney. Trapped with the ball, Libba then throws the ball out towards Cooney (play on called by ump). Cooney grabs it off the ground quickly, feeling heat he shuffles (throws the ball) over to Daul (no free kick given).

Daulhaus gathers the ball and attempts to run away from congestion but for Watts. He is right on to it and swoops on Daulhaus and puts on pretty much a perfect tackle bringing Daul to the ground. Daul still manages to get both hands free, but not being able to hand ball correctly from his awkward position (sitting on his butt), he flick passes (technically a throw) the ball out but unfortunately for him, straight into the arms of Tyson. The boys then work the ball away from the congestion nicely. Nev gets a woeful handball from Viney in all that and uses his body to protect the ball, gathers while being tackled but manages to handball off quickly but to the advantage of the oncoming Howe. With some nice "baulking/spinning" out of trouble work, Howe handballs to Tyson, then Watts who kicks a nice little short one to Matt Jones. He goes back to Watts who then spots up Chip on a lead. Frawley then looks to chip (yes that's an intended pun haha) a medium pass to the big Russian (or alternatively Byrnes who leads back and calls for it also). Byrnes, who just isn't aware of the oncoming carnage (or maybe he is and happy to put his life on the line lol), goes back to mark and gets crunched by the oncoming Russian and opponent.

And this says so much about our play atm i think. Great work down back, and through the middle/at the stoppages. It's just that last kick i50 that is hurting us the most. Luckily JHK is smart, stays off the contest front and square, picks up, snap shot....however not enough on it and bouncing ball is rushed through.

The big issue here is not what is happening so much with Watts not doing this well, or doing that well. It's what we do with the ball and how we set up our last kick from just outside 50.

I think we had roughly 8 out of the last 11 i50 entries in that first quarter on Saturday. But we blew pretty much 5 to 6 out of those last 8 entries.

Fix the i50 entry side and who leads when/where etc and this should result in us having more shots at goal.

One aspect is to play to our strengths or make sure we don't use weaker ball users just outside 50 to try and deliver it with that last kick in a little better than we are at present. Eg., Say Bail or Pedo get it just outside 50..... make sure Watts/Howe/Nev or someone who is a better stab pass or just better using it by foot, are running past/or laterally for the give off so they can send it in with a better chance of hitting a target or putting it to the favoured side of a leading opponent or even the top of the square with accuracy if no other alternative. Byrnes, don't lead back into oncoming 6 foot plus giants (or at least glance up and realise what's coming and sit off the contest...ie., live to see another day and maybe even gather the crumbs and snap truly for goal).

For a sample of Bail's short passing/option selection work, see 17:50 to go early in the first quarter. Same sort of clanger that occured when we were on top of Adelaide in the 3rd which lead to the ball being turned over and a goal to the Crows which IMO got them back into that match. This is effectively "a turnover" it just doesn't appear as bad as a turnover in the back half where the damage can often happen more quickly/directly, hence the impression in the observer's mind is magnified. In this example, Bail's short pass is way off the mark which results in a turnover deep in our forward line. The Doggies are clever enough to run it all the way around the southern side. They eventually bomb it long to a contest on their HF line, it spills out to a hard working Cooney who has worked his way (too easily) off Terlich (who had gone to him just before the kick) and he runs around the boundary with little pressure, kicking truly for the Doggies first goal.

Potentially a 12 point turnaround or at least 7 (assuming a dodgy/rushed or set shot at goal up our end had Bail/Pedo been able to hit a target or at least not kick it/direct it, so poorly). A very similar result to Bail's short pass attempt to the Jones boy in the 3rd quarter against Adelaide.

Not all bad on Bail's part though as he also did some good work around the stoppages (1 or 2 great tackles, working his way free to receive etc), but those bad turnovers (not to our advantage at all on the last kick coming i50) are really hurting our good work further up the ground atm.

Edit: First attempt was a rough draft and a bit shoddy...a bit like many of our entries i50 atm

Edited May 13, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I find the critisism of jetta insane, since coming back he has played on the most dangerous small forward every week for the entire game, we have lost 2 of those games and the other was a close win.

he has not conceded a goal. not one. that's playing on Betts, Lewis jetta and Dahlhaus.

I know it's been said before, but Nev Jetta could genuinely become the next Matty Whelan for us.

[beelzebub 23,312]

I know it's been said before, but Nev Jetta could genuinely become the next Matty Whelan for us.

couple steps up a ladder....but maybe.

Wheels was a real player. Couldnt figure his style at times as he gave largess at strange times to opposition but in hindsight like a cattle dog sizing up the animals Nev is maybe 2/3 there . Still much to learn But hey . Id happily have a Wheels 11 on board

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

couple steps up a ladder....but maybe.

Wheels was a real player. Couldnt figure his style at times as he gave largess at strange times to opposition but in hindsight like a cattle dog sizing up the animals Nev is maybe 2/3 there . Still much to learn But hey . Id happily have a Wheels 11 on board

Wheels hardly ever played a bad game his whole career

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I know it's been said before, but Nev Jetta could genuinely become the next Matty Whelan for us.

All i know at this point Ron is that he can read the flight of the ball very well, is very good with the use of his body on body work in order to get his opponent off balance or the ball to his favour in a marking contest. When he does get free he's also bloody slippery and is damn sweet either by hand or foot. Very much a one touch player. Albeit he doesn't get it enough to be all that damaging at present. Maybe a fair way off from having a decent AFL tank? Could run a little harder to impact when we don't have the ball too IMO.

If anyone's interested check out his nice work with 3:00 minutes to go in the first. Very classy and love the shoulder shrug out of the tackle (which ruined Dixons night i think).

If he can fix some of the hard running stuff and get the ball a little more or run off his opponent a little more i reckon we've got a bit of a player here given enough time.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Like Whelan, Jetta:

- doesn't ever shirk the contest;

- is a good tackler;

- is extremely team oriented - very selfless in his focus - will always commit to the one percenters; and

- was also a 50s something draft pick, ie, not supremely talented, but super determined.

Reckon his position going forward is as the defender who gets the dangerous small forward each week.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

(not sure what happened to the post then its down here lol )

great appraisal there RN vvvvvv

Haha... Sorry BZ i had to re-post and delete the first one. Yep it was that bad

And thx!

Edited May 13, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[beelzebub 23,312]

Wheels hardly ever played a bad game his whole career

sorry..seems to have got misinterpreted. Jetta has much to learn.

wheels played his fair share of games under par. But his par was pretty high

[Biffen 12,940]

If that was to summarise Rusty then I hope your novel is split into three parts.

If your wife asks for a quickie then she had better do it at the beginning of a long weekend or you'll be late for work on Tuesday.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

If that was to summarise Rusty then I hope your novel is split into three parts.

If your wife asks for a quickie then she had better do it at the beginning of a long weekend or you'll be late for work on Tuesday.

Biff the scary part is i can't argue against any of that!

Hec, i better keep things short n sweet from here and focus on other things eh

[45HG 1,539]

The second coming of Whelan?

Not in my lifetime I wouldn't dare to dream.

[rpfc 28,239]

And on the third day, the prophet arose and bumped James Hird as he has never been bumped before.

All in thy members wing applauded for thee, for Hird has 'had it coming for ages.'

Amen.

[jackaub 1,402]

Having been an outspoken critic of Ro Bail over the last couple of years I want to say now I was wrong in calling for is dropping.

He is now playing some very good patches of footy in particular clean effective clearances strong tackles and line breaking running

His development this season has been great and I hope he continues to contribute. He could be a candidate for most improved in my opinion.

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

It has developed far beyond what it should have. I was merely pointing out that grand statements should be tempered a bit when he's played 4 games. Pedantic? Maybe.

This all has a bit of twilight zone about it. It doesn't seem long ago that the bulk of demonland it seemed was saying Jetta had no future and I was one of the ones advocating for him to be given another chance. He beats Eddie Betts and now he's our most valuable player.

Very odd.

Wow I sparked 3 pages of Saty at his finest. I could get more personal but it's rehashing old ground and I do like your training reports. I think you mean well defending the players but in turn you attack me for just expressing my opinion.

What I don't value is your opinion on football, mainly because I'm not sure you actually have one besides from just taking what you here from players and coaches as gospel.

I never said Jetta played too badly. Overall he was maybe just a pass mark. But just playing your role is setting the bar so low. Last week Jetta kept Betts to 8 or so touches, this week Dalhaus, whilst limited in impact had 20 odd. When in direct one on one's Jetta did well, but he far from completely snuffed out the influence Dalhaus had. Offensively Jetta only had 8 touches. All the other defenders had more. Jetta only had 1 mark. He wasn't taking intercept marks, nor was he running to be an option out of the backline. If you are going to be just a defensive stopper you better be really good at stopping.

I'm not looking for Jetta to be Andrew McLeod with attacking flair and run. Nor am I looking for him to have pin point skills. But until he starts running to receive the ball and help open space for his team mates I don't think he'll make it as a player and hence why I described his as a frustrating footballer. You don't need talent or dare to run you just need work rate.

Watch Jetta this week live at the game (it's hard to see these things on TV). When the ball gets turned over at half back watch the likes of Grimes (if he's back in the backline), M. Jones, Howe, McDonald all run and spread to provide an option. Then watch Jetta often stall or gently meander to space.

Who said he was the most valuable player, I didn't, you can't have misquoted to make a point surely?....I said he was a valuable player at the moment. I wasn't one calling his future, you will find it is not a majority on Demonland who do this, but a small minority of footy genii

Master, I wear 39 on my jumper, I do watch Nev closely, not sure you do, that bolded comment is rubbish, he wouldn't be in the team if he did that, I have tried explaining a myriad of times but to no avail, his instructions at the moment, similar to a few other players, is not to try too much, Roos is trying to eradicate the stupid turnovers and it's working....solid foundations then you can add the decoration

[Ted Lasso 19,191]

Who said he was the most valuable player, I didn't, you can't have misquoted to make a point surely?....I said he was a valuable player at the moment. I wasn't one calling his future, you will find it is not a majority on Demonland who do this, but a small minority of footy genii

Master, I wear 39 on my jumper, I do watch Nev closely, not sure you do, that bolded comment is rubbish, he wouldn't be in the team if he did that, I have tried explaining a myriad of times but to no avail, his instructions at the moment, similar to a few other players, is not to try too much, Roos is trying to eradicate the stupid turnovers and it's working....solid foundations then you can add the decoration

I said he was as valuable as anyone at the moment because of the role he was playing, and they took it as me saying he was the best player.

[DemonOX 8,779]

Who said he was the most valuable player, I didn't, you can't have misquoted to make a point surely?....I said he was a valuable player at the moment. I wasn't one calling his future, you will find it is not a majority on Demonland who do this, but a small minority of footy genii

Master, I wear 39 on my jumper, I do watch Nev closely, not sure you do, that bolded comment is rubbish, he wouldn't be in the team if he did that, I have tried explaining a myriad of times but to no avail, his instructions at the moment, similar to a few other players, is not to try too much, Roos is trying to eradicate the stupid turnovers and it's working....solid foundations then you can add the decoration

Hey Saty when u r at training next can u ask Frawley if he has seen signs of improvement yet and if so when will he bloody sign on the dotted line???

The longer this goes the less chance we r of keeping him IMO

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

Hey Saty when u r at training next can u ask Frawley if he has seen signs of improvement yet and if so when will he bloody sign on the dotted line???

The longer this goes the less chance we r of keeping him IMO

I offered him a pen after the Adelaide win...which he took with good humour

I actually like the Free Agency, if he goes I don't think it will be about the money, it will mean he can't see any improvement on the horizon, which doesn't necessarily mean there isn't but maybe just not quick enough, it opens the door to other possibilities for us as well, with Rivers going it opened the door for Tommy Mc earlier than it should have been, yes he still causes the odd heart attack but when he is in his prime at 24-25 we will have a battle hardened key defender with 100+ games under his belt

Edited May 14, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[jnrmac 20,046]

I like Nev. He's one of ours. has persevered and worked hard. Tough nut. Can take a grab. Does his job pretty well. Is better than Nicho.

[nutbean 8,838]

I like Nev. He's one of ours. has persevered and worked hard. Tough nut. Can take a grab. Does his job pretty well. Is better than Nicho.

Shoot me for saying this but if he can get 15% Bennell into him he would immeasurably better. Jetta does all the really hard stuff well but needs to get some easy ball and thus get involved. Bennell didnt do much hard stuff but looked good getting into space.

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

Shoot me for saying this but if he can get 15% Bennell into him he would immeasurably better. Jetta does all the really hard stuff well but needs to get some easy ball and thus get involved. Bennell didnt do much hard stuff but looked good getting into space.

Chap, I have already covered this, Nev is playing a specific role at the moment with specific instructions to keep it simple, Roos wants the defensive bit ingrained, ie it just happens, then when he has 22 all on the same page we will start to look at the offense, if you listen to him on any media, you will hear him say this....think a lot of it is to do with if Nev goes on a run, we have a midfielder going in behind him so if we unfortunately turn it over the opposition don't score from it and we can get it back..we still don't do this enough at the moment as the midfielders are getting used to working both ways

Edited May 14, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[DemonOX 8,779]

I offered him a pen after the Adelaide win...which he took with good humour

I actually like the Free Agency, if he goes I don't think it will be about the money, it will mean he can't see any improvement on the horizon, which doesn't necessarily mean there isn't but maybe just not quick enough, it opens the door to other possibilities for us as well, with Rivers going it opened the door for Tommy Mc earlier than it should have been, yes he still causes the odd heart attack but when he is in his prime at 24-25 we will have a battle hardened key defender with 100+ games under his belt

Can't say I actually like free agency but hey each to their own.

T Mac's contract is also up isn't it?

Any word on him or Dunn for that matter?

If we lose all three that will hurt.

[Go the Biff 3,412]

Shoot me for saying this but if he can get 15% Bennell into him he would immeasurably better. Jetta does all the really hard stuff well but needs to get some easy ball and thus get involved. Bennell didnt do much hard stuff but looked good getting into space.

Always thought if you could merge the two you'd have a hell of a player

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

Can't say I actually like free agency but hey each to their own.

T Mac's contract is also up isn't it?

Any word on him or Dunn for that matter?

If we lose all three that will hurt.

I think you will find Tommy Mc has aspirations for the Leadership group at Melbourne, that should keep him in place