I said during the game Howe has to learn when to punch and when to mark. And if you choose to punch then hit it. One of the times he went to punch and or glanced it - the dogs got a goal.

And the biggest problem with Howe is that if he doesn't get it or punch effectively he is out of the contest as he usually ends up on the ground.

A couple of times he also went third man up when we had a 2-1 the correct option was to stay down and crumb the spoil.

In retrospect I think we lost this at selection. If we were going to tag Griffen we should have brought in McKenzie, used him to tag Griffen and left Grimes in the backline.

Grimes was terrific last week in Adelaide in the back half and McKenzie has done good jobs on Griffen before.

Easy to be wise after the event.

Grimes I think had a good game. At one point Griffen had 15 possessions with 9% efficiency. Only one of his 11 kicks was effective.

But Griffen proved a big point - you can be paying badly but still work hard to do team things and have a massive positive effect. Grimes couldn't stop griffen tackling and he had a dozen I think. Not Grimes fault. Class player and a few of ours could learn from him to put in even if you are having a shocker.

Salem does look good but I thought he got caught out of position a few times last night. That's to be expected with a kid who is yet to play a full game, it's probably time for him to step up now.

Let's see him play a full game.

I meant more in terms of kicking goals than the contest- he has kicked 3 already in just over 3 quarters of an AFL career. To me, that suggests he's getting in the right areas.

just saw some people want byrnes/bail/pedders to be dropped whenever we lose.

the gut running of these 3 has been terrific and the box them in game that PR has us playing is very difficult to learn and concentrate on for a whole match.it was inexperience that let the ball out to open field with dunny trying to protect to much ground that was the killer towards the end.

you cant teach every kid this game in 5 minutes and you need hard body experienced players to maintian that game plan.

PR was always gonna bring this plan here and all supporters wanted to not be flogged every week,well hes done it and now we must be patient until players learn the ropes of this plan.

look at how many players are in the ressies learning the plan and will be ready to play to it when their chance comes.i know its difficult,but we need MORE patience.

Pederson would be top 4 B&F. Anyone calling for him to be dropped doesn't watch the game to see how hard he works and competes.

We play the Dogs again in a couple of months at Doglands.

I hope like hell that this game is burned into the group's collective consciousness and that they are driven to avenge.

im glad we play them again.

Anyone else think the Dogs tactics of scragging and throwing the ball when tackled went unpenalised?

NJones was infringed all night by Picken, got crucified by the maggots but still had 24 possessions mostly contested

Salem has to get a full game or go back to Casey.

Something has to give on that front. Roos has said that if he stays as a sub each week, he is likely to lose match fitness.

I am a little leery about putting too much on our kids too early. We did it for 5 years and it ruined more than a few careers.

However, I will trust Roos on this. If he thinks Salem is worthy of a full game, then so be it.

Grimes I think had a good game. At one point Griffen had 15 possessions with 9% efficiency. Only one of his 11 kicks was effective.

But Griffen proved a big point - you can be paying badly but still work hard to do team things and have a massive positive effect. Grimes couldn't stop griffen tackling and he had a dozen I think. Not Grimes fault. Class player and a few of ours could learn from him to put in even if you are having a shocker.

I dont think this is about whether Grimes did a good job. This is more about did we lose more not having him patrolling half back than we gained having him tag Griffen. Cross should have gone to Griffen instead of Macrae. Grimes should have played his customary role. Macrae is a good link man but did not require a tag and if so Bail could have gone to him if he cut loose. Also agree with a previous comment as to when the game was there to be won in the first 10 minutes of the last why Jones was playing forward rather than in the pivot.

Roos might tweak Salem soon with full runs in the magoos before elevation.

Roos might tweak Salem soon with full runs in the magoos before elevation.

I dont think this is about whether Grimes did a good job. This is more about did we lose more not having him patrolling half back than we gained having him tag Griffen. Cross should have gone to Griffen instead of Macrae. Grimes should have played his customary role. Macrae is a good link man but did not require a tag and if so Bail could have gone to him if he cut loose. Also agree with a previous comment as to when the game was there to be won in the first 10 minutes of the last why Jones was playing forward rather than in the pivot.

Fair enough..

Have slept on it, still [censored] off we didn't win.

Which is a good thing, as it means for once we have a MFC who is competitive and has opportunities to win games. Whether they do, or not, well that is still developing. But we will find that as we get more experience we will put sides away like we should have last night.

Next couple are winnable if we are up to it. Big chance to make amends for this one that slipped away.

And also, would love to see a stat on the number of times a player was tackled. I reckon Jack Viney would have broken some sort of record last night.

Like Ross stated in the pre games interviews. Bulldogs are that little bit ahrad of us. We can only play 115 minutes of football at the moment but hopefully by next season we can play a full 120. Still a hell of a lot better then last season, they played with hart and that's all I asked for going into the 2014 seasone. 2015 is a completely different story.

We could have won it but nevertheless is was a good game to watch, considering I hated watching the boys play over the past 2 years its good to watch a Melbourne game and have some hope the we could actually win.

The free against Dunn did not have to be paid in the context of the game. Once again we get shafted by a soft free. It was such a fantastic effort by both teams until then. The umpires had put the whistle away... No, there was still one maggot prepared to take the game on the whistle!

It could be argued the free was there, Dunn intentionally bumped out, but in the context a soft free well within scoring range, did the game & Us, a disservice.

I feared that MJones would stuuff the kick, after such a great run, ended in his indecision & not kicking thru the ball.

On the Matt Jones goal (and not wanting to blame the youngster) but as he enters 50, JKH comes screaming towards him.

The problem is that the hyphen doesn't affect the contest at all as he doesn't get to Jones and all he ends up doing is leading his man to the running Jones.

The Hyphen should've stayed where he was, let his man go to Jones and called for the handball over the top. I think he was caught up in the drama of the situation and lacked composure (as many of our players did last night).

It's a good learning curve for him and I'm sure the coaches will bring it to his attention.

Vision here - WARNING: Heartbreaking!

McDonald had a very bad day.

Next couple are winnable if we are up to it. Big chance to make amends for this one that slipped away.

yes the bye is winnable

After sleeping on it I'm still pretty annoyed that we lost this. Much like the Saints game and to a lesser extent the Gold Coast game we really had our opportunities to make an impact on the match. First half was when we dominated the play but failed to capitalise, and in the final quarter we had golden opportunities to push ahead. I reckon this loss will burn for the players, and so it should.

Me too. Woke up this morning filthy that we aren't winners.

I hope the players feel the same and pour that anger into smashing the Tigers (going to be hard with them having the bye though).

In retrospect I think we lost this at selection. If we were going to tag Griffen we should have brought in McKenzie, used him to tag Griffen and left Grimes in the backline.

Grimes was terrific last week in Adelaide in the back half and McKenzie has done good jobs on Griffen before.

Easy to be wise after the event.

Agreed. We're a key defender short. Need Georgiou back, and Dunn probably to go forward.

I dont think this is about whether Grimes did a good job. This is more about did we lose more not having him patrolling half back than we gained having him tag Griffen. Cross should have gone to Griffen instead of Macrae. Grimes should have played his customary role. Macrae is a good link man but did not require a tag and if so Bail could have gone to him if he cut loose. Also agree with a previous comment as to when the game was there to be won in the first 10 minutes of the last why Jones was playing forward rather than in the pivot.

Agreed. I thought Grimes quelled Griffin's offensive game completely, which was a positive for us.

However, it came at the huge cost of not having Grimes in the backline. That's a net loss for us. Roos needs to have learnt from last night that Grimes must play HBF, nowhere else. Find others to do the shut down roles (as you said, Bail could have been used in that role).

Next couple are winnable if we are up to it. Big chance to make amends for this one that slipped away.

'Couple'? After the bye we have Port Adelaide.

On the Matt Jones goal (and not wanting to blame the youngster) but as he enters 50, JKH comes screaming towards him.

The problem is that the hyphen doesn't affect the contest at all as he doesn't get to Jones and all he ends up doing is leading his man to the running Jones.

The Hyphen should've stayed where he was, let his man go to Jones and called for the handball over the top. I think he was caught up in the drama of the situation and lacked composure (as many of our players did last night).

It's a good learning curve for him and I'm sure the coaches will bring it to his attention.

Vision here - WARNING: Heartbreaking!

Good pick up.

That vision also shows you how far Jones ran to get that shot - he was in that pack where the free was taken, and when Howe got loose, he noticed his chance and bolted into the middle. Huge running, so he would have been tired. The kicked smacked of exhaustion, he hardly was able to extend his leg through it and it didn't make it to the goal line even if it had have been straight.

Man, watching that was hard though.

Someone explain to me how this is a free kick for a block, but this is a free kick for in the back.

Probably because Crameri took a dive.

Me too. Woke up this morning filthy that we aren't winners.

I hope the players feel the same and pour that anger into smashing the Tigers (going to be hard with them having the bye though).

Agreed. We're a key defender short. Need Georgiou back, and Dunn probably to go forward.

Agreed. I thought Grimes quelled Griffin's offensive game completely, which was a positive for us.

However, it came at the huge cost of not having Grimes in the backline. That's a net loss for us. Roos needs to have learnt from last night that Grimes must play HBF, nowhere else. Find others to do the shut down roles (as you said, Bail could have been used in that role).

'Couple'? After the bye we have Port Adelaide.

The thing is we are judging this from a position of not knowing what Roos was trying to do here. He might have been working at developing Grimes defensive game. Roos has stated it's about learning at the moment and he hasn't started coaching (as in match day) yet.

Someone explain to me how this is a free kick for a block, but this is a free kick for in the back.

Probably because Crameri took a dive.

Yep, these decisions are both mistakes in my opinion.

The thing is we are judging this from a position of not knowing what Roos was trying to do here. He might have been working at developing Grimes defensive game. Roos has stated it's about learning at the moment and he hasn't started coaching (as in match day) yet.

This may be the case, but in a game in which we were the better side, things like that arguably cost us the win. Moreover, it came on the back of one of Grimes' best games as the loose defender. Why run this experiment now? Do it against Hawthorn or Geelong where it won't cost us a win.