Roos said his main focus this year was percentage and in that regard he is doing a very good job.

The midfield this year is genuinely competitive which is the polar opposite of 2013, the forward line is the one thing truly lacking right now. There appears to be no one on the list (post Clark) capable of kicking bags.

I really enjoyed the aggression tonight even though I'd say Nate Jones and Georgiou will probably cop some MRP attention.

The thing about Terlich is that his clangers are as he comes out of defence. They kill us every time. He makes poor decisions and if you're standing at full back, a poor decision can lead to a goal against.

I notice Terlich's mistakes a lot more than others - his often come under no pressure and cost us a lot more than the ones that are turned over further up the ground.

He's not the only one, we have a lot of players who turn it over, but he stands out to many of us because his mistakes just seem to cost us so much. If you're playing off half back you have got to make decent decisions, and he doesn't do that IMO.

You spoke of how we'd played him in the wrong position.

I don't care if we have. He doesn't try hard enough. Pedersen's being played in the wrong position (he's better off half back than half forward) but he's not letting that stop him from at least trying.

I have been one of his biggest critics but if Watts and Howe tried as hard tonight the result would have been a lot closer

I probably think Its time to trade Jack Watts. Too many times Ive read and observed that he appears to have lost confidence to the point where I don't really care. The gap between his best and his worst is simply extraordinary and, for the most part his games lie closer to the latter. I now think we have to move beyond Jack.

The way he is going, you may get a former pick 4 for him, little else.

For anyone at the game, was Cross giving a spray to Watts in the first quarter for not running defensively hard enough? It cost us a goal from memory.

Seven's brilliant coverage showed Cross giving the spray but never showed who to.

Yeah, but name them! On the changes thread, I pointed out that probably best 22 to come in are Garland, Reilly, Kent, Clisby and Toumpas.

To go, Jetta, Terlich, Bail, Byrnes. I'm not sure Watts is next in line.

Long term maybe, but right now Watts is first in line, and Howe is second. There is only so far you can go with players who don't even run, let alone chase/tackle/pressure/give repeat efforts.

So long as Jetta and Terlich are putting in 110% efforts I'll keep them in the side until Watts and Howe show me that they give a stuff and want to play AFL football. We need to shed the low-skill players, I agree, but we cannot do that whilst we carry players who won't try.

What would you get for him?

Certainty not a first round and the only club who would have gambled a second round pick last year would have been Carlton.

You'd get a third round.

I reckon we would get a pic around the mid 20s. That has landed us a vince and dawes in the past. Know who id prefer

Long term maybe, but right now Watts is first in line, and Howe is second. There is only so far you can go with players who don't even run, let alone chase/tackle/pressure/give repeat efforts.

So long as Jetta and Terlich are putting in 110% efforts I'll keep them in the side until Watts and Howe show me that they give a stuff and want to play AFL football. We need to shed the low-skill players, I agree, but we cannot do that whilst we carry players who won't try.

Fair enough, but that's a huge call. There is zero upside to any of those others.

For anyone at the game, was Cross giving a spray to Watts in the first quarter for not running defensively hard enough? It cost us a goal from memory.

Seven's brilliant coverage showed Cross giving the spray but never showed who to.

"Jack....Jack.....Jack"

At least twice gave him a bake.

I heard watts watches a lot of pro basketball. IF he wants to learn to play Aussie Rules, & to let his current bad habits fade away, then he should giveaway watching basketball & go to nearly all the big AFL games he can get to.

watching basketball only refreshes his bad habits in his head. he has to stop those basketball plays in his head, standing in circles passing the ball back & forth.

he has to run,,, to receive & to carry. & use his foot skills at the end of the run.

It hasn't hurt Pendles. Honestly basketball is not the problem here, with most players it is seen as a bonus.

I know. But I actually think its coming to that. As someone noted, he's not in our best 22 if you look at it in the cold hard light of day

we have to fix him up, or its retire for old Jack.

he has the ability to run & run quick, but he WILL NOT. its really that simple.

I hope we play him on boomer harvey when we play them. tag .

Roos said his main focus this year was percentage and in that regard he is doing a very good job.

The midfield this year is genuinely competitive which is the polar opposite of 2013, the forward line is the one thing truly lacking right now. There appears to be no one on the list (post Clark) capable of kicking bags.

I really enjoyed the aggression tonight even though I'd say Nate Jones and Georgiou will probably cop some MRP attention.

He's doing a good a job as he can in terms of containing points against. We're not letting bags of goals through like we did under Neeld and Bailey, and that's a marked and significant improvement.

However, we're really struggling to score. Part of this is personnel, but part of it is our structures falling apart. Our forwards are coming too far up the ground and they do not lead where we need them to lead.

Now I may be stretching things a bit here but as Roosy was giving him a bake at 3 quarter time Jack took a swig of drink and looked past him and I couldn't help but think,'for facks sake pay attention to what he's saying to you'. It was a little thing but given he'd had time to have a drink he needed to look the coach in the eye. It was like he didn't grasp the situation at all.

Pretty sure Roos said a few weeks ago he doesn't care if you were pick 1 or pick 60, if you don't put in the effort you're out of the team.

Seems like the seeds of discontent with Watts have been there for a few weeks, and the rocket shoved up his ass after last week's match clearly made no difference.

Fair enough, but that's a huge call. There is zero upside to any of those others.

I know, and my general policy is to play for the long term, not the short.

But Watts and Howe cannot be played whilst they are jogging around the field.

Send them back to Casey as punishment, get them to find their hunger again, and then they can come in and push out the lesser lights.

My observations:

1) What a bloody horrible game to watch. Scrappy and uninspired.

2) We have tightened up significantly on defense and it's good to see. However, lack of football smarts going forward still kill us.

3) Jack Watts is running out of credits with me. If Roosy wants to create a culture where you have to kick the door down to get a senior berth then Jack is in the same boat as Toump and Trenners. He needs to hit some form soon otherwise he is off to Casey until he can force his way back in. What frustrates me is that he seems incapable of getting out of a canter.

4) I thought Jamar helped quite a bit tonight. We won in the ruck.

5) First time Chip Frawley has lowered his colors as a forward though he was playing on Ted Richards. Hopefully, he will be better for the experience.
As Roos has said, it's baby steps at the moment but I will add we will need a second win soon. I can see the group retreating into their shells again if effort goes unrewarded.

"Jack....Jack.....Jack"

At least twice gave him a bake.

I love, love, LOVE that Crossy is now in the leadership group. He will relish the opportunity and keep his teammates honest. With the elevation it gives him even more authority on the field to rightfully call out players who aren't putting in.

Very glad it was Watts on the other end of the spray.

Now I may be stretching things a bit here but as Roosy was giving him a bake at 3 quarter time Jack took a swig of drink and looked past him and I couldn't help but think,'for facks sake pay attention to what he's saying to you'. It was a little thing but given he'd had time to have a drink he needed to look the coach in the eye. It was like he didn't grasp the situation at all.

Think you're the second or third person to mention it, so it was obviously there! Absolutely astounding if true.

I can still vividly remember my dad giving me a second spray when I was about 11 for doing the same thing.

Travis Johnstone was an absolute gun, a Best and Fairest winner who turned it on in finals pressure

If I see Watts compared to him again i will vomit

I know, and my general policy is to play for the long term, not the short.

But Watts and Howe cannot be played whilst they are jogging around the field.

Send them back to Casey as punishment, get them to find their hunger again, and then they can come in and push out the lesser lights.

I'm not sure if it's punishment but they sure have to learn, and if they can't then they go the way of others such as Moloney and Silvia (yes I know he went under free agency but I don't think that Roos was that disappointed to lose him).

Now I may be stretching things a bit here but as Roosy was giving him a bake at 3 quarter time Jack took a swig of drink and looked past him and I couldn't help but think,'for facks sake pay attention to what he's saying to you'. It was a little thing but given he'd had time to have a drink he needed to look the coach in the eye. It was like he didn't grasp the situation at all.

His heads not in it, he's much more suited to the ammo's.

I know, and my general policy is to play for the long term, not the short.

But Watts and Howe cannot be played whilst they are jogging around the field.

Send them back to Casey as punishment, get them to find their hunger again, and then they can come in and push out the lesser lights.

Ah well, in the end, sounds pretty sensible really. A real shame it has come to this, when we need to make the absolute most of the limited talent we have.

I suppose when guys like Nicholson cant get a game, it would make them spew to see joggers get one.

At the end of the game I had the following thoughts:

1. When hPaul Roos was signed as Melb coach I never thought that at round 5 the most improved players under his tenure would include Pederson, Dunn and Matt Jones.

2. I also never thought that our side might be better without Watts, Trenners, the Toump and Grimes in it still under Paul Roos.

Watts has to learn to turn it on when he is off.

Does Howe have more to his game?

Is Matt Jones continually under-rated?

Are Dunn, Cross and Pederson the most trustworthy and accountable players on our list at the moment?

Has Watts played his last game for us??

The epitome of Schwabs list management skills from that 2008-09 period.

Epic fail.

Quite incredible.

Nup, if we played an any other game with this list we would be sunk big time. Roos is on the money, it's the best move we've made in 50 years to have him at the club (Northey close)...

Spot on. Ask the Swans how Roosy affected their off-field prosperity. Much better they would answer.

I thought the effort was excellent and if we can bring that intensity every week I will be happy.

I know we only kicked 5 goals but I'm a big believer in getting your defence right first and then worrying about offence. Yes we have been lucky with teams kicking poorly in games but I still think we've looked better defensively and have applied more pressure for longer periods of the game than we have in recent seasons. Our defence will get tested by better teams but at the moment we are not leaking goals like we have used to in the past and that means we are staying in games longer.

Yep it was scrappy and dour but I'd take that any day over seeing the opposition kick goal after goal and us be 10 goals down at half time. In fact I loved the second quarter, I thought the intensity and pressure was terrific and it didn't bother me that only one goal was kicked. Finals footy is tough and hard and low scoring and you need to be able to scrap.

I thought the difference in the game was Sydney's run and spread off half back. Guys like Shaw, Malceski and Rampe, with their hard running and pace they were able to get the ball out of the defensive half of their ground very quickly. We really lack this type of player - guys that can spread quickly and run the ball out of defence and then kick long and accurately. Sydney just have more class in their 22 than we do and that really was the major difference in the game.

It wasn't a night for key forwards and Sydney's were quiet as well, but Frawley, Howe and Dawes were poor and, while we had a forward structure, we didn't really look dangerous with the long kick into our forward line (Dawes' effort was tremendous but he just couldn't get enough separation on his opponent to take any grabs).

On Watts, I thought his effort was better than last week (which isn't saying much) but it was still well below acceptable levels. I wonder whether he looks at Pederson's game and thinks, "gee, here's a bloke who is undersized for the role he plays, not a great athlete, not quick, not particularly skilful, yet he had 10 times the impact that I did". Pederson probably got about 95% out of his natural talents tonight, Watts probably operated at about 15%.

Overall another loss but I can see where we are heading and I believe in it. We will come up short most weeks as we don't have the talent but if we give effort like that I can't have any complaints.