The line in the sand.

[Vince Vega 40]

I don't think there's an AFL supporter who could forget the line in the sand match between the Hawks and the Bombers in 04. I remember Dermie being asked about it on Open Mike - he said Essendon had been walking all over Hawthorn for the better part of a few years and that day they collectively decided that enough was enough.

After reading Nath Jones' thoughts on the "bruise-free" remarks made by Carlton players a few years ago, for some reason I recalled the line in the sand fights. I'm a pacifist at the best of times, but I know most of us love watching an all in scuffle on the field. Wouldn't it be great if our boys decided enough was enough this week? Who better is there to prove a point to? We can cop the fines and suspensions. We've been playing undermanned for years so what difference would another few weeks make? Hawthorn went on to build a pretty damn good team from there and won a flag four years later.

I just want to see some passion!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-10/demon-bruises-still-hurt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLiR4faNtAI

[The Chazz 4,077]

I don't think there's an AFL supporter who could forget the line in the sand match between the Hawks and the Bombers in 04. I remember Dermie being asked about it on Open Mike - he said Essendon had been walking all over Hawthorn for the better part of a few years and that day they collectively decided that enough was enough.

After reading Nath Jones' thoughts on the "bruise-free" remarks made by Carlton players a few years ago, for some reason I recalled the line in the sand fights. I'm a pacifist at the best of times, but I know most of us love watching an all in scuffle on the field. Wouldn't it be great if our boys decided enough was enough this week? Who better is there to prove a point to? We can cop the fines and suspensions. We've been playing undermanned for years so what difference would another few weeks make? Hawthorn went on to build a pretty damn good team from there and won a flag four years later.

I just want to see some passion!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-10/demon-bruises-still-hurt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLiR4faNtAI

We have no-one capable of doing anything like what Hawthron did that day. No team or opposition player is intimidated by any on our list. GWS showed that last weekend, and it has been a trait of this club since the late 80's-early 90's.

I would love to see it, but it is the last thing I'm expecting to see on Saturday.

[Guest]

Just don't think we are an aggresive enough unit for that to happen.

Dawes, Spencer, Dunn, Jones, Frawley, Vince all don't mind a scuffle, but who else is there really?

Carlton's list is predominatly composed of soft(o(ks (the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Garlett etc) but then there is the likes of McFlog (if he gets a game), Robinson, Warnock, Waite, Jamison etc etc who have no brains or ability, but rely purely on physicality.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

People have been saying its in the mind. Well Roosy how about a change of mindset? Would surprise plenty.

[Wilson7 2,688]

What about David Neitz and Matt Whelan ? They had more courage and mongrel than our current entire list combined, bar Nathan Jones. I would love to see it as well billy, i doubt it though. Can you imagine Jack Watts drawing a line in the sand, hed probably trip over it.

We have no-one capable of doing anything like what Hawthron did that day. No team or opposition player is intimidated by any on our list. GWS showed that last weekend, and it has been a trait of this club since the late 80's-early 90's.

I would love to see it, but it is the last thing I'm expecting to see on Saturday.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

I'd offer Jake Spencer a two year contract extension if he uses the first bounce as an opportunity to run through Warnock and uses the first possible occasion to put Bryce Gibbs into the third row of the crowd. That might wake a few others up. Next step after that is to target Mitch Robinson and wipe the smirk of his ugly head.

It's about time we stop being insipid and if that means going way too far the other way first then so be it.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I really liked the way Hawthorn approached their development when they were up and coming " the anti social hawks" when your core group is Nathan Jones, Jack Viney, Jesse Hogan, Chris Dawes, James Frawley, and so on we need to hit in hard, the sooner we are hated by every other team the sooner we know we are on the right track

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

What about David Neitz and Matt Whelan ? They had more courage and mongrel than our current entire list combined, bar Nathan Jones. I would love to see it as well billy, i doubt it though. Can you imagine Jack Watts drawing a line in the sand, hed probably trip over it.

Whelan was a beauty. Neitz was good but he was a lead and mark full forward, he simply didn't have the opportunities to make a statement. James McDonald was the classic unassuming tough as old boots guy. But for everyone like him there were plenty of Yze's, Green's, Bruce's etc.

[mauriesy 7,357]

Confucius say: Problem with line in sand is that on other side ... there's just more sand!

[hardtack 10,627]

I'd offer Jake Spencer a two year contract extension if he uses the first bounce as an opportunity to run through Warnock and uses the first possible occasion to put Bryce Gibbs into the third row of the crowd. That might wake a few others up. Next step after that is to target Mitch Robinson and wipe the smirk of his ugly head.

It's about time we stop being insipid and if that means going way too far the other way first then so be it.

Bring in Tapscott, let him lay out Robinson at the opening bounce, then sub him off.

Edited April 10, 2014 by hardtack

[stuie 7,374]

Won't happen.

The good old "line in the sand" thread has appeared on 'Land about every 3-4 rounds since around 2008.

Still waiting...

[Wilson7 2,688]

Agreed Master, i will never forget the hip & shoulder Neitz put on McCabe quite a few years ago, if there was ever a scuffle he would always be in the thick of it standing up for his teammates. Do you remember Ted Fidge ? Wasnt much of a player but certainly made his presence known

Whelan was a beauty. Neitz was good but he was a lead and mark full forward, he simply didn't have the opportunities to make a statement. James McDonald was the classic unassuming tough as old boots guy. But for everyone like him there were plenty of Yze's, Green's, Bruce's etc.

[Gorgoroth 13,023]

There have been so many lines in the sand over the last few year it looks like giant chickens have been playing in the sand pit.

Stuff sand, nothing is built on sand, throw down the concrete and see who steps up.

[Red N Blue Society 165]

I'd offer Jake Spencer a two year contract extension if he uses the first bounce as an opportunity to run through Warnock and uses the first possible occasion to put Bryce Gibbs into the third row of the crowd. That might wake a few others up. Next step after that is to target Mitch Robinson and wipe the smirk of his ugly head.

It's about time we stop being insipid and if that means going way too far the other way first then so be it.

I'd like to see that...Spence likes to throw his weight around thats for sure...Warnock is complete rubbish...would be good to see him crunched....Even Blues fans would probably like it...

[Grapeviney 9,801]

Confucius say: Problem with line in sand is that on other side ... there's just more sand!

And it's hard to draw lines in quicksand..

Edited April 10, 2014 by Grapeviney

[The Chazz 4,077]

Agreed Master, i will never forget the hip & shoulder Neitz put on McCabe quite a few years ago, if there was ever a scuffle he would always be in the thick of it standing up for his teammates. Do you remember Ted Fidge ? Wasnt much of a player but certainly made his presence known

Therein lies the problem. While Neitz never backed away from a scuffle, he rarely, if eve, was the instigator.

In the Hawks/Bombers fight as posted above, who's our Chance Bateman, our Richie Vandenberg?

We are too nice to start a brawl, and it takes a dogs act from the oposition for us to even consider retaliating, and even then it's no certainty that we will do it.

[nutbean 8,838]

I'd offer Jake Spencer a two year contract extension if he uses the first bounce as an opportunity to run through Warnock and uses the first possible occasion to put Bryce Gibbs into the third row of the crowd.

You only have to say boo to Bryce Gibbs and he is in the third row of the crowd

[Little Goffy 14,645]

Bizarre that this still gets talked about as some kind of cultural moment. All summed up by the commentator at the 10.15 mark of the video posted above.

"I just think they've lost the plot at the moment, the Hawks. they've tried to unsettle the Bombers, it hasn't worked, and basically, they're not up to it."

I prefer what Geelong did to Hawthorn in 'retaliation' for the Grand Final upset. That, that is tough. I want that.

Give me four years of never losing to Carlton, you can keep your gutless sniping and hair pulling (actual hair pulling, I mean, seriously?).

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I would love to see Tappy come in as our enforcer. Even if he spent 2 to 3 on the sidelines every 3rd or 4th match. We desperately need a heavy hitter in the team.

Agree with the line in the sand and i live in hope but i've yet to see it at the Demons since the likes of Balls, Yeater, Wight and Jakovich left other than on one other occasion. The Hawks match where Neita let loose. And Neita match excluded, the late 80s mob was a mighty long time ago. Heck even the Hawks game is going back about 10 years.

Love to see it but as Stuie said its been asked for every year for years now.

If we can't win games i'd love to see us build a really ferocious team that might be somewhat lacking in amazing skills, but can still transverse the footy quite well and at the same time, literally smash the opposition. Need to at least gain some fear in our opponents somehow as they presently show none when playing us.

If we can't worry them on the scoreboard ....well... let's at least hit em hard and make sure they know we aint no pushover by filling the team with mad tough nutz who never shirk a contest and love a stoush

It's not the greatest weapon and probably a last resort one, but at this point we have no weapons at all.

And for those wondering, no i'm not advocating 80s elbows or king hits behind play. Just ferocity at the ball and ball carrier. And if the carrier is there to be hit.... we hit.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Little Goffy 14,645]

You only have to say boo to Bryce Gibbs and he is in the third row of the crowd

Third row of the crowd... is that where you're typing from champ?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

Remember the last time we tried this? It was against Geelong I think it may have been the 2005 Elimination Final....

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

I DO want to see a "line in the sand" match as well but to me line in the sand doesn't mean all in brawls and king hits behind play. Go hard for the ball, make the opposition know you are there and they will get crunched everytime they want to take the footy. Run through players legally at every opportunity and make your tackles stick and hurt by driving them into the ground. Use your bodies, back up your teammates and never take a backwards step - if it comes to a scuffle or blows because the other team gets upset then get in there and let them know about it but otherwise just play hard tough footy. That's what I want to see.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I DO want to see a "line in the sand" match as well but to me line in the sand doesn't mean all in brawls and king hits behind play. Go hard for the ball, make the opposition know you are there and they will get crunched everytime they want to take the footy. Run through players legally at every opportunity and make your tackles stick and hurt by driving them into the ground. Use your bodies, back up your teammates and never take a backwards step - if it comes to a scuffle or blows because the other team gets upset then get in there and let them know about it but otherwise just play hard tough footy. That's what I want to see.

I think that's what we all want to see.

It made me sick when I saw $cully take that mark running back with the flight last week. He is far from a courageous player, but he knew he had nothing to fear from his opposition. Perfect opportunity to teach that dog never to do that sort of thing again, and it could've been done in a "legal" manner. He knew he was safe.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I DO want to see a "line in the sand" match as well but to me line in the sand doesn't mean all in brawls and king hits behind play. Go hard for the ball, make the opposition know you are there and they will get crunched everytime they want to take the footy. Run through players legally at every opportunity and make your tackles stick and hurt by driving them into the ground. Use your bodies, back up your teammates and never take a backwards step - if it comes to a scuffle or blows because the other team gets upset then get in there and let them know about it but otherwise just play hard tough footy. That's what I want to see.

Yep...nicely said. We've been lacking that sort of aggression for decades

[praha 11,240]

The line in the sand match was a joke. Why do people hold it up? Because the hawks showed "fight"? They were beaten comfortably every where on the ground on the day except when it came to cheap hits and bumps. They were in it with a chance until they started acting like morons.

People say it was a turning point for the Hawks. They didn't make the finals for another three years.

The only fight I want to see is 120 minutes of chasing, urgency and will to win.

Causing a fight in the middle of the ground for no reason other than to showcase how tough you are is a true indictment on your own ability to perform under adversity.

Hawthorn had NOTHING else to do BUT fight. Melbourne is better than this.

Good teams respond to pitiful tactics like this. Hawthorn did in the '89s GF. Essendon did in 2004.

Line in the Sand so far as when the game is over, Carlton players are hurting. Not Line in the sand that you get reported for a cheap hit for the sake of giving your fans an orgasm.

A "line in the sand" moment is fair play that your opponent remembers. Hard, contested football. Not cheap hits and brawls for the sake of brawling.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Cudi_420