2007:

Morton - No longer in AFL

Grimes - @ MFC, played today

Maric - No longer in AFL

Cheney - backup @ Hawthorn

McNamara - delisted

2008:

Watts - played today

Strauss - did not play

Blease - did not play

Jetta - rookie list, did not play

Bail - played today

2009:

Scully - @GWS

Trengove - did not play

Gysberts - Delisted

Tapscott - did not play

Gawn - did not play

Fitzpatrick - played

2011:

Taggert - delisted

Tynan - delisted

Sellar - delisted

Clark - well we all know what's going on here.

Says it all, really.

You forgot 2010

Cook - delisted - zero games

Howe - played (but not in his best position)

Davis - delisted - 2 forgettable games

McDonald - played

Jordie - at Casey

Spencil - played

So our first and third picks that draft also haven't exactly contributed to our predicted exciting rise up the ladder

As someone pointed out, very few clubs have had success with the majority of their high picks, but we have certainly had (??earned??) plenty of high picks and have either got them very very wrong and / or dismally failed to develop them. Chicken vs egg situation IMO. Either way, a disaster for our club's future (let alone the present).

We need players who want to smash down walls.

I agree - and smashing down walls doesn't rely on being big or small - muscled up or skinny - it is solely dependent on attitude.Look at Dylan Buckley at Carlton - He would blow over in a strong wind but he has all the attributes of his Dad. He definitely plays more outside than Jimmy but when it is his turn to go - he doesnt hesitate - he just goes.

I agree - and smashing down walls doesn't rely on being big or small - muscled up or skinny - it is solely dependent on attitude.Look at Dylan Buckley at Carlton - He would blow over in a strong wind but he has all the attributes of his Dad. He definitely plays more outside than Jimmy but when it is his turn to go - he doesnt hesitate - he just goes.

Yep. For all his faults Jordie Mac has the same attitude. He stays.

We need players who win the ball, can break away from traffic, make good decisions and execute well by foot. And we need bigs who can catch and impose themselves. There is enough grunt and grind on the list, the list lacks talent and applied class. It really is the reason we are so bad, not anything else.

Edited April 7, 201411 yr by goodoil

It's more than 4 failed drafts...

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) -

2001 (ND9) -

2002 (ND14, 15) -

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) -

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn

2005 (ND12) - Jones

2006 (ND12) - Frawley

2007 (ND4, 14, 21) - Grimes

2008 (ND1, 17, 19) - Watts

2009 (ND1, 2, 11, 18) - Trengove

2010 (ND12) -

2011 (ND12) -

2012 (ND4) - Toumpas

*Salary cap penalty.

If you make this many mistakes with early picks, you are going to have a bad time.

You forgot 2010

Cook - delisted - zero games

Howe - played (but not in his best position)

Davis - delisted - 2 forgettable games

McDonald - played

Jordie - at Casey

Spencil - played

So our first and third picks that draft also haven't exactly contributed to our predicted exciting rise up the ladder

As someone pointed out, very few clubs have had success with the majority of their high picks, but we have certainly had (??earned??) plenty of high picks and have either got them very very wrong and / or dismally failed to develop them. Chicken vs egg situation IMO. Either way, a disaster for our club's future (let alone the present).

2010 was a reasonable draft overall. Howe and Mcdonald have performed to first round level of that draft year. Nicholson and Evans were the rookies that year, not Mckenzie and spencer

Edited April 7, 201411 yr by goodoil

We need players who want to smash down walls.

Believe me WYL salem is going to do that, he is a gun

Believe me WYL salem is going to do that, he is a gun

I think he will be too mate, I just wish he said I'm here to play AFL not at Casey. I hope that's his attitude.

Believe me WYL salem is going to do that, he is a gun

Geeeeeeeee Sassy here we go again How about we wait and see how he goes Elite this Elite that jajajajajjaajjaajaajajajajajajaa all night long.How many Guns have we predicted so far !It appears as if the term Gun is a tad over used on here

You have picked Hawthorn as an example we should follow - their two best picks from the 2012 draft didnt play a game in the seniors last year and there are 2 from the year before who havent play a game yet either ! They are left at BH to "DEVELOP".

Did GWS and GC have the luxury of allowing all those teenagers to develop?

This game is so complex, sometimes you just can't look at a successful club and say "do that like them".

I just wish he said I'm here to play AFL not at Casey. I hope that's his attitude.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what he said in that interview (if we're talking about the same one?) His words were very similar to what Roos wrote about him in the pre-season pen-pics in that season guide Heartbeat or whatever it's called, the one put out by the club. Pretty sure he was just mimicking the coach's words, "develop good habits" etc etc

This is a very good discussion and I haven't had time to look in to this properly but I'd like to add my 2 cents.

It's easy to get carried away and blame the recruiters etc but I think the MFC has failed the MFC more then any 1 person, and here is why/

The game changed - it's fair to say we've always drafted lighter framed more skilled players (not all but generally)

3 new coaches in 6 years - constant changes in direction of the club of game style and players required

Lack of MFC development of players.

FA rules have seen a lot more player movement

Reliance on drafting over development...

There are probably a lot more factors I've missed but my point is the MFC has been it's own worst enemy for such a long time over this period.... Who know how hand players like Beamer, Pettered etc would be now?

The MFC need to have a plan and stick to it - That's why I will back Roos to the hilt no matter how poor we go - No more quick fixes & chopping and changing. sorry for hijacking but I don't think it's just a simple as bad recruiting.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what he said in that interview (if we're talking about the same one?) His words were very similar to what Roos wrote about him in the pre-season pen-pics in that season guide Heartbeat or whatever it's called, the one put out by the club. Pretty sure he was just mimicking the coach's words, "develop good habits" etc etc

Me too, but I heard Lucas Cook mimic the same type of words and it jars with me.

Just tell me it's your life dream to play AFL and you can't wait to get out and mix it with the big boys.

Geeeeeeeee Sassy here we go again How about we wait and see how he goes Elite this Elite that jajajajajjaajjaajaajajajajajajaa all night long.How many Guns have we predicted so far !It appears as if the term Gun is a tad over used on here

Sorry, Salems a dud, why didn't we pick freeman, blah blah is that better?

It's more than 4 failed drafts...

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) -

2001 (ND9) -

2002 (ND14, 15) -

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) -

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn

2005 (ND12) - Jones

2006 (ND12) - Frawley

2007 (ND4, 14, 21) - Grimes

2008 (ND1, 17, 19) - Watts

2009 (ND1, 2, 11, 18) - Trengove

2010 (ND12) -

2011 (ND12) -

2012 (ND4) - Toumpas

*Salary cap penalty.

If you make this many mistakes with early picks, you are going to have a bad time.

I get what you're doing with the blanks, but Thompson in 2000 was a great pick at 16, and McLean and Sylvia - still going - were certainly worth their draft standing in the 2003 trash pit. There's no question though that some of the picks were disgusting reaches (Molan, Cook, Gysberts), while there's room for varying levels of debate on the failings of drafting development on those we took around where they were supposed to go (Morton, Bate, Blease).

I get what you're doing with the blanks, but Thompson in 2000 was a great pick at 16, and McLean and Sylvia - still going - were certainly worth their draft standing in the 2003 trash pit. There's no question though that some of the picks were disgusting reaches (Molan, Cook, Gysberts), while there's room for varying levels of debate on the failings of drafting development on those we took around where they were supposed to go (Morton, Bate, Blease).

Some real stallwarts came out higher up in 2003. Mundy, H Shaw, Z Dawson, S Fisher and Stanton to name a few.

Some real stallwarts came out higher up in 2003. Mundy, H Shaw, Z Dawson, S Fisher and Stanton to name a few.

I'll pay Fisher, Stanton and Mundy, but Shaw was father-son, and Dawson, well, no.

It's more than 4 failed drafts...

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) -

2001 (ND9) -

2002 (ND14, 15) -

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) -

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn

2005 (ND12) - Jones

2006 (ND12) - Frawley

2007 (ND4, 14, 21) - Grimes

2008 (ND1, 17, 19) - Watts

2009 (ND1, 2, 11, 18) - Trengove

2010 (ND12) -

2011 (ND12) -

2012 (ND4) - Toumpas

*Salary cap penalty.

If you make this many mistakes with early picks, you are going to have a bad time.

consistent

and it went across a few boards , coaches, selectors and such

seems our malaise runs to the core

I posted this on another thread and thought it was worth repeating.

While we are to blame for poor recruiting, for the position we find ourselves in, the AFL has also contributed significantly.

When we were at the bottom they brought in 2 new teams, gave them all the best players and made our chances of recovery very difficult.

They then brought in 2 new rules which led to senior players Moloney, Rivers, Sylvia and maybe Chip being allowed to go to top clubs or at least clubs of their choice and one to go at age 19 to GWS. That is 5 players or 25% of our best team. That is nothing short of murder, committed on a football club. Worse still it was committed on a club at the bottom of the ladder, struggling to improve.

They then put the cream on the cake, or buried the corpse to use another analogy, by changing the PP rule, when we clearly because of games won, would have got one and then even though we filled the criteria for one under their new rule, refused to give us one, using a totally BS excuse.

I won't even mention the tanking farce punishment, for being found not guilty and with no other club who did the same as us, even being investigated.

Yes, we are to blame of course, but so are the AFL and it should be made crystal clear to them, when we ask for help, as we should.

Very good post Redleg

I can't argue with what you said at all - I guess I will mention that as a club we need to get ourselves organised (which i think Roos will actually do)

The next key qeustion is how long does Roos stay and what is the succession plan? And if we do get assistance what sort of assistance is in order? Because f-me god knows we need it

We need to draft and trade for players who can actually kick a football and not just athletes.

So many of our list cannot kick!!

Roos said this on AFL 360 and I agree - that skills etc will come it's the effort level we want consistant at the moment

We need better talent - no doubt. But I also think we need to stop throwing young guys in the deep end sink or swim style (which we've been doing the last few years). I know we don't have many options in that regard as our leaders are few and far between but I don't think it's as simple as just better or more players

Roos said this on AFL 360 and I agree - that skills etc will come it's the effort level we want consistant at the moment

We need better talent - no doubt. But I also think we need to stop throwing young guys in the deep end sink or swim style (which we've been doing the last few years). I know we don't have many options in that regard as our leaders are few and far between but I don't think it's as simple as just better or more players

This is very much on the money, living in WA and getting regular looks at the local AFL lists over the years through the AFL and at WAFL level you think their disposal is shocking. Over time theyare forced to buy in and work hard or they are out. The penny drops (for some it's straight away) and realise the workrate and effort required at the highest level. Over time they develop get used to playing at the level and the skills improve.

Deboer - could not hit a barn door, but always worked his arse off and has developed his skills

Mayne - as above

Walters - was overweight and lacked the zip and awareness and was unable to apply the pressure he does now and his great skills suffered because he fatigued easily

Crowley - was gone 3 years ago but reinvented himself lost weight and can now run with the best players in the league

Meth Coast from 2008-2010 had young players who had terrible disposal and were in and out of the team such as

S.Selwood - was very bad early days at turning the ball over but always had the family traits with effort and was played as a tagger but over time his disposal improved and now he is a threat to opposition players

Brad Ebert - like most of their side really struggled with disposal until 2011 but became a very very good player for them before heading home

Eric Mckenzie still not great by foot but a lot more composed and knows his limitations gives a lot of hope to Tom Mac

Masten who's poor disposal continued until 2012 he has always been an athlete but they gave him some roles late 2011 and 2012 when he did the job which was asked of him and became comfortable with his role and now has the belief he can play at this level

Meth Coast and Freo's lists have tremendous running power and never stop running to space, running to create space, leave an opponent and sacrifice themselves when the time is right to get to a contest, run hard to make second efforts and will put their bodies on the line for each other.

If we just did these little things every game we may not win every week but we would not get belted

I posted this on another thread and thought it was worth repeating.

While we are to blame for poor recruiting, for the position we find ourselves in, the AFL has also contributed significantly.

When we were at the bottom they brought in 2 new teams, gave them all the best players and made our chances of recovery very difficult.

They then brought in 2 new rules which led to senior players Moloney, Rivers, Sylvia and maybe Chip being allowed to go to top clubs or at least clubs of their choice and one to go at age 19 to GWS. That is 5 players or 25% of our best team. That is nothing short of murder, committed on a football club. Worse still it was committed on a club at the bottom of the ladder, struggling to improve.

They then put the cream on the cake, or buried the corpse to use another analogy, by changing the PP rule, when we clearly because of games won, would have got one and then even though we filled the criteria for one under their new rule, refused to give us one, using a totally BS excuse.

I won't even mention the tanking farce punishment, for being found not guilty and with no other club who did the same as us, even being investigated.

Yes, we are to blame of course, but so are the AFL and it should be made crystal clear to them, when we ask for help, as we should.

Sorry 'Redleg', it was all our own doing.

We were supposedly at least a year ahead of Richmond in the rebuild and it would have had us pushing top 4 about now if we had handled it properly. Unfortunately we had the wrong people running the club and they totally stuffed it up.

Because of our failure to do the job properly it put us right in the middle of the new club introductions and compromised drafts and that's why we're where we are now. We had a small window of opportunity and we blew it badly.

The Tiges will never get to top 4 with their list partly because of the new teams, it has meant they have missed some of the cream to top up their list. It doesn't run deep enough.

Sorry 'Redleg', it was all our own doing.

We were supposedly at least a year ahead of Richmond in the rebuild and it would have had us pushing top 4 about now if we had handled it properly. Unfortunately we had the wrong people running the club and they totally stuffed it up.

Because of our failure to do the job properly it put us right in the middle of the new club introductions and compromised drafts and that's why we're where we are now. We had a small window of opportunity and we blew it badly.

The Tiges will never get to top 4 with their list partly because of the new teams, it has meant they have missed some of the cream to top up their list. It doesn't run deep enough.

Losing Scully was not our doing and it was a good selection, so his market value when he jumped ship dictates. Nor was it our fault we were selecting at 12 in 2010 and not at 5 in an already compromised draft. Getting access to the 24th best player of his vintage is hardly fair for a team finishing 13th. Many mistakes, some poor decision making but the club has been certainly unlucky in many ways and a victime of poor timing.

Edited April 7, 201411 yr by goodoil