They say people don't believe in heroes anymore Max!

Who says that Biffen! I do.

Without the big 3 up forward, and then Fitz and TMac being injured winning went from tough to really difficult.

Aside from Watts Jones Vince and a bit of Toumpas I was underwhelmed with the midfield after quarter time.

And please no more Pedersen.

To be fair, that is a Watts, Vince & a bit of Toumpas better than last year. I thought any sniff we might have had was killed off when Pedersen missed that sitter

Grimes missed a few targets tonight.

Jesus he hurt us. 2 or 3 resulted in St Kilda goals. Love the way he goes about it but he needs to apply the Clint Eastwood rule more often

Bale sp.

1. evil; harm; misfortune.

2. woe; misery; sorrow.

We also could have had the blokes who were there kick straight. For all the talk about a lack of a forward line, we only needed a few of those easy ones to be converted. No excuses, forward line targets or not.

It's easier to kick goals from set shots 30 metres out compared to trying to kick goals in traffic. Most of our misses were because we were either trying to kick goals on the run under pressure or trying to kick goals in congestion.

Get a bloke with sticky hands up there and things will improve.

Don't get me wrong. I am disappointed we lost. However:

* There is structure there.

* The problems we do have can at least be remedied now.

* The effort is there but it's just the execution that is lacking.

Tonight wasn't good enough. However, it's not hopeless by any stretch of the imagination.

Imagine if the Aints had fielded a side.

My god!

Big job Roosy...

Just imagine if we did too........

We had some critical injuries that meant we would struggle and add Shyte kicking for goal but let's face it he mid field disintegrated in the second half. We will really struggle until we get the key forwards back and Grland.

Junk. Should have expected it. My scarf is on the train tracks. I hate this club.

For a bloke that's had a great pre-season still can't believe how slow Toumpas looks

Blease, absolutely yes.

And id have anyone on the list in the team ahead of Pedersen.

Would have preferred Max King,

Good point. We probably should have stuck Jetta at full forwad

It's easier to kick goals from set shots 30 metres out compared to trying to kick goals in traffic. Most of our misses were because we were either trying to kick goals on the run under pressure or trying to kick goals in congestion.

Get a bloke with sticky hands up there and things will improve.

Don't get me wrong. I am disappointed we lost. However:

* There is structure there.

* The problems we do have can at least be remedied now.

* The effort is there but it's just the execution that is lacking.

Tonight wasn't good enough. However, it's not hopeless by any stretch of the imagination.

Absolutely agree, it wasn't hopeless. But we have to find ways of getting through games like that, without the excuses of being in traffic etc. Good teams kick goals from all over the place.

Slow or timid?

You knows its going to be a long year when we can't even beat the Saints without Montagna, Lenny Hayes, Sam Fisher and Dal Santo traded away...

Positives: Watts' game was excellent, good to see Tyson accumulate so many possessions, Dunn was good

Megatives: Pederson is not even VFL standard let alone AFL standard, Byrnes and Bail are useless

Come on boys , stop trying to look at the positives....St Kilda are a rabble, if we cant beat them we will be lucky to win a game for the rest of the year.

We are still a basket case, and i dont know if we will ever get out of it.

Junk. Should have expected it. My scarf is on the train tracks. I hate this club.

Is your dummy down there too?

Junk. Should have expected it. My scarf is on the train tracks. I hate this club.

If you've come from the Mallee there's a good chance it's still there. Don't be a [censored] and go back and get it.

frawley better sign sooner than later if he keeps playing like that, howe ineffective, sack pedo effin hopeless, vince a star, lost in part cos we couldn't kick straight, won just about everything cept centre clearances, no forward line, injuries to 2 players didn't help, we are in a world of pain till we get a forward line

To be fair, that is a Watts, Vince & a bit of Toumpas better than last year. I thought any sniff we might have had was killed off when Pedersen missed that sitter

Jesus he hurt us. 2 or 3 resulted in St Kilda goals. Love the way he goes about it but he needs to apply the Clint Eastwood rule more often

Well we ended last season two miles behind the competition in the midfield. And against an undermanned no name midfield we got chugged in the clearances after half time. We won't get any easier midfield opposition this than tonight.

We're taking small steps forward but I suspect the Club expected they would be bigger paces.

Now back to Frawley. Faaaaccckkkkk.

I think we should give Howe a break, he had to play as a key forward and therefore their best defender and was limited on his impact.

I can understand why we wasted our chances in our 50 due to our key forwards being out. However, we should have killed in the centre, IMO that is where we lost it.

Funnily enough, I reckon we can knock of the original steroid users next week.

frawley better sign sooner than later if he keeps playing like that, howe ineffective, sack pedo effin hopeless, vince a star, lost in part cos we couldn't kick straight, won just about everything cept centre clearances, no forward line, injuries to 2 players didn't help, we are in a world of pain till we get a forward line

i'm not fussed if he signs or leaves at this point, he is a leader of our club and rather than wait for someone else to set a direction he likes he could try setting one himself, he could have read the situation in the 3rd himself and said okay, Tommy mc is struggling i better stop their only forward Roo from taking uncontested marks, he is our backline leader they need to think on their feet.

We really missed Cols breakout game tonight

To those bitching about Howe, he's not - and never will be - a KPF. He's a great marking flanker, and being stuck up there with their first choice defender was never going to work in his favour, especially as it's just too easy for their defence to just manoeuvre him out of position - unless the ball comes in quickly.

Howe needs to be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order in the forward line, floating into the midfield, with some space, and with some big contested mark targets to work with/off/around.

Disappointed to lose, but the difference was that they had those couple of key marking forwards who were able to make a difference once they were able to get the ball down there. On top of the outs we have, we were really hurt by McDonald and Fitzy going down early on, and it's no accident that the Saints got on top when they went off in the second quarter.

Funnily enough, I reckon we can knock of the original steroid users next week.

Waiter, this man needs more vodka, much more

Absolutely agree, it wasn't hopeless. But we have to find ways of getting through games like that, without the excuses of being in traffic etc. Good teams kick goals from all over the place.

The truth is though we aren't a good team yet. We are a developing team. We may become a good team but for now we can't afford to play undermanned teams. We need a full list to get the best out of what we have and right now, what we are missing are tall forwards.