Long winded post that just says "Jones was our best player". The entire "leads by example" idea is also just another way of saying "is our best player" - all the good players lead by example, it's an inherent part of being a good player. Leading by example isn't much good if others don't follow though and that has always been my concern re Jones, especially early.

I'd say Brent Moloney and Colin Sylvia led by example too. It's just that their example sucked.

I would have liked Michael Evans to have paid more attention to what Roosy was saying haha

Jones as selfish, lol.. I only hear this one on demonland.

Reserved, yes.. Selfish, absolutely not...

Jones leads by example on the field and has always had the respect of the players.

There was a couple of separate groups before Moloney left, it was only natural Nathan would've hang around the older heads - as they were the midfield.

Grimes hung with the younger guys, naturally, therefore him and Trengove got more votes amongst the players.

This doesn't mean players thought Jones was selfish, just that they were swayed more by Grimes and Trengove, we let young kids pick our captains and we have let young kids run our club.. Gave the players too much say, before these players were even AFL grade.

In the meantime, Jones was busy racking up B&F's and was respected by older heads in the game - experts who had actually achieved GREAT feats in the game, not kids who haven't even proven themselves...Roos was a fan of Jones, amongst many in the media - who thought Neeld couldn't run a bath, let alone a club.

Everyone outside of Melbourne known Jones was the logical choice, we went the other way and had no leadership.

There is so much revisionism going on here. 2011 B+F Jones finishes 4th, Trengove 5th, 2 votes difference despite Trengove missing 3 games for a sling tackle. At that stage Trengove was a young player who was heading towards A grade. Jones was a mid level player deployed in outside and tagging roles to help develop his game.

Of course forcing captaincy on the young guys was a mistake but Roos has continued the same level of player empowerment he's just challenged them to think more. Jones in 2014 is such a different candidate than Jones at the end of 2011. He's vastly improved as a player and he's even opened up about being more involved with other players.

Players didn't just vote for their friends. They voted for the guys who led them. For whatever reason they didn't think Moloney, Rivers and Jones were those leaders. Players would have voted for more experienced guys, that's a much more natural thing to do than vote for you friends.

Anyway here is Nathan in his own words describing his leadership:

For so long Nathan was so determined to find his own place in the team and feel sure of it, that it was hard to think past that. He didn’t feel secure enough to do it, but he’s starting to now, trying to see it as another skill that he needs to learn, as quickly as he can. Hardly any Melbourne players have played in finals; very few of them know what it’s really going to take to be the team they want to be, but Nathan feels like he started to become a little less selfish, if that’s the right word, last year. He realised he wasn’t acknowledging the influence he could have on other players, that it didn’t necessarily have to be his way or no way.

He knows the best leaders jump on things straight away, on the ground and off it. He knows they see things almost before they happen, that they pick up on how people are feeling. He’s trying to see those things now, and to be more aware of others; when he decides to do an extra session he tries to grab one of the young players and drag him along too. None of it comes easily, or instinctively, because he has never put enough time into making sure it become more natural. But he’s working harder at it, and learning.

“I’ve always wanted to support my teammates, to help, but I’ve had the blinkers on at times. I’m trying to open up a bit, to see how guys are feeling, to talk to guys about preparation, to try and share more things. I never used to think twice about about asking someone to come with me if I was doing something extra, it was more about self drive, but I want to do more of that.

I would have liked Michael Evans to have paid more attention to what Roosy was saying haha

Btw, I reckon he's really bulked up.

Colin, you can continue down your cheerleader path.

If bagging out Neeld at every given opportunity is your gateway to healing, go for it.

I'm good. I've moved on. Go Roosy.

As Ronald Reagan said... 'There you go again.'

The fact that people seem to think the noises coming out of AAMI are good, in your mind, makes us cheerleaders with the implication being we will applaud whatever is served up to us without critical thought. Most people here are happy that Roosy is the coach but due to the last six years, most of us are still in the wait and see category (I have consistently said we should wait and see on here).

I would also say if your gateway to making yourself feel better after backing one of the most disastrous coaching appointments in AFL history is to find threads or stories that even vaguely criticize Mark Neeld and accuse the central players in it of living in the past, then more power to you.

As Ronald Reagan said... 'There you go again.'

The fact that people seem to think the noises coming out of AAMI are good, in your mind, makes us cheerleaders with the implication being we will applaud whatever is served up to us without critical thought. Most people here are happy that Roosy is the coach but due to the last six years, most of us are still in the wait and see category (I have consistently said we should wait and see on here).

I would also say if your gateway to making yourself feel better after backing one of the most disastrous coaching appointments in AFL history is to find threads or stories that even vaguely criticize Mark Neeld and accuse the central players in it of living in the past, then more power to you.

I couldn't find a famous person to quote….'you still don't get it…...'

I don't care about Neeld…..yesterday's news.

He needs to stay there.

Yes, barking instructions and dishing out praise isn't revolutionary, but it's still nice to see how he interacts with the players. Feedback is instant, with authority, and without talking to them like they're his Year 9 PE class. We're very lucky to have Roosy on board.

Dawesy! (Mic'd-up 20

"jack...get back jack, go jack, run jack."

watts, presumably?

I thought Viney went past in the screen shot so maybe him?

meh

I agree. As someone who is more inclined towards the excessive optimism end of the spectrum rather than the excessive pessimism end (otherwise known as the Saty and Old Dee ends), I'm surprised so many have read so much into the little we heard and saw. Seemed like pretty standard coaching behaviour to me. (Comparison with Neeld is irrelevant to that.)

I really enjoyed hearing Roos out on the ground. To be honest though, it is no different to when I coached youngsters years ago. Footy really is a simple game, no matter how much some try to complicate it.

I agree. As someone who is more inclined towards the excessive optimism end of the spectrum rather than the excessive pessimism end (otherwise known as the Saty and Old Dee ends), I'm surprised so many have read so much into the little we heard and saw. Seemed like pretty standard coaching behaviour to me. (Comparison with Neeld is irrelevant to that.)

Three cheers for sue.

I couldn't find a famous person to quote….'you still don't get it…...'

I don't care about Neeld…..yesterday's news.

He needs to stay there.

I get it just fine. You say you want Neeld left in the past but you seem pretty keen to keep this argument going. And you call anyone who is enthusiastic at the preliminary signs a 'cheerleader'. Stuff that Paul Roos. What has he ever achieved?

Sue is right. Not much came out of that video and to be honest and they probably cut anything that might have not been as positive.

I get it just fine. You say you want Neeld left in the past but you seem pretty keen to keep this argument going. And you call anyone who is enthusiastic at the preliminary signs a 'cheerleader'. Stuff that Paul Roos. What has he ever achieved?

Sue is right. Not much came out of that video and to be honest and they probably cut anything that might have not been as positive.

No you don't…...not really.

You spend so much of your time finding appropriate clips to keep on discrediting him.

You keep on misquoting me and digging yourself into a hole.

Please find a way to be well.

No you don't…...not really.

You spend so much of your time finding appropriate clips to keep on discrediting him.

You keep on misquoting me and digging yourself into a hole.

Please find a way to be well.

Yeah, I'm in a hole. Thinking that maybe things are looking up under a premiership coach vs. defending a bloke with a 33% winning record. I'm really taking the intellectually dishonest position.

Do I really have to drag out your quotes from 'Paul Roos shocked by mental scars'?

I get you alright. It's just that you don't have the cojones to come out directly and say what you really mean.

Yeah, I'm in a hole. Thinking that maybe things are looking up under a premiership coach vs. defending a bloke with a 33% winning record. I'm really taking the intellectually dishonest position.

Do I really have to drag out your quotes from 'Paul Roos shocked by mental scars'?

I get you alright. It's just that you don't have the cojones to come out directly and say what you really mean.

Colin, I have no idea what you're saying.

Ffs, listen! I'm defending Neeld to some extent in that we've all been punished enough (Neeld and us) and we all need to let it go.

Roos' comments, imho, lacked tact and statesman like qualities. That is all. No need to keep on dragging it on.

Come on, focus.

A good coach gets the best out of his players full stop, Mark Neeld not only didn't manage that with any player but he hindered the development of others by putting too much pressure on them, playing them too early, playing them out of position or simply just not understanding that his hard ass'd attitude didn't work for everyone.

Jack Trengove

Jack Watts

Jack Grimes

all fit into this catagory

None more so than Liam Jurrah.

I though MN was a good coach for us right up until I saw his televised pre game speech...that left me flat and I started to doubt him.

Roos seems to be everything MN was not.

Roos is most everything most coaches aren't.

Colin, I have no idea what you're saying.

Ffs, listen! I'm defending Neeld to some extent in that we've all been punished enough (Neeld and us) and we all need to let it go.

Roos' comments, imho, lacked tact and statesman like qualities. That is all. No need to keep on dragging it on.

Come on, focus.

mfc supporters feel they have to make comparisons about everything to do with Melbournefc.

whilst where down the lower part of the ladder those comparisons can't be much about us compared to other teams above us as its too hard to keep talking about.

so the disappointment leads to the condemning comparisons of our former staff up against the current lot. anger & frustration, creating more frustration, & the cycle goes around. & around.

but the learning doesn't happen. just the blame game.

Colin, I have no idea what you're saying.

Ffs, listen! I'm defending Neeld to some extent in that we've all been punished enough (Neeld and us) and we all need to let it go.

Roos' comments, imho, lacked tact and statesman like qualities. That is all. No need to keep on dragging it on.

Come on, focus.

I like you jumbo, but your position on Roos' comments was bizarre and rightly raised suspicion about some persisting agenda, given your previous criticisms of PJ when he too was not 5 minutes through the door.

Neeld was a dud. It's fine to let it go, but let's not pretend that wasn't the case.

I like you jumbo, but your position on Roos' comments was bizarre and rightly raised suspicion about some persisting agenda, given your previous criticisms of PJ when he too was not 5 minutes through the door.

Neeld was a dud. It's fine to let it go, but let's not pretend that wasn't the case.

Thanks P- man. I, too, have always enjoyed our debates.

I'm not pretending that he was poor. I still think the players deserved more scrutiny.

The word we need is dignity. Neeld's career as an AFL coach is finished. Isn't that enough? We don't need more articles, YouTube clips about him, Instagram shots....

I hope Jesse Hogan goes nuts tonight.

I hope Jesse Hogan goes nuts tonight.

I just hope he has a run around and gets through uninjured.