Frawley wants to know...

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

wyl, why does it always come back to "they get paid well"? So what? Whatever he gets paid now is going to have to last him into his years after football. It's a throwaway line.

He's still human and footy is his life. Why does he not deserve a degree of sympathy for the dross of the shambolic last few years? The bulk of his career has been played in a team that has been smashed from pillar to post. And he's actually someone who could walk into any club. You can see each week how much it has rocked him.

And now, after years of service with weekly beltings, he wants to be certain the club is on an upward curve before committing.

And some are calling for him to be dropped to reserves? Seriously?

Excuse me? In my first post on the subject i said i fully understand if Chip leaves.

I agree with what you say. All i have said is i am not going to worry about it all year.

If Chip goes he goes. That's F.A.

Who do we target if he goes?

[DeeSpencer 25,470]

A few words on this:

- He's undoubtedly a beast and an important player to us but is he the amazing talent that makes him irreplaceable? Don't think so.

- When it all boils down to it are athlete type footballers like James easier to come by? Probably.

- Is this just contract posturing? I still hope so, but the writing has been on the wall for a while now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has made the decision to vacate a long time ago and would need some serious talking out of it, if that is at all possible.

- If he goes, it won't take long for a new star Demon full back to emerge.

whoa them some crazy words.

Frawley an athlete type footballer? That's rubbish. He's not just an athlete because he's fast and might not be an amazing kick. Star full backs at the demons, what like Nicholson, Shanahan, Lamb etc. More rubbish. If Frawley leaves we are looking at a kid, trade (unlikely to find quality) or Pedersen at full back. That doesn't sound too good to me.

[P-man 13,366]

Excuse me? In my first post on the subject i said i fully understand if Chip leaves.

I agree with what you say. All i have said is i am not going to worry about it all year.

If Chip goes he goes. That's F.A.

Who do we target if he goes?

Granted, but I was responding to this:

The last 2 years were completely unacceptable. I understand that Chip was bombarded. We all saw it. But the entire list was paid, most if them very well so i have little sympathy really.

That line doesn't wash with me. That was my point. The rest wasn't directed at you specifically.

[rjay 24,883]

A few words on this:

- He's undoubtedly a beast and an important player to us but is he the amazing talent that makes him irreplaceable? Don't think so.

- When it all boils down to it are athlete type footballers like James easier to come by? Probably.

- Is this just contract posturing? I still hope so, but the writing has been on the wall for a while now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has made the decision to vacate a long time ago and would need some serious talking out of it, if that is at all possible.

- If he goes, it won't take long for a new star Demon full back to emerge.

I think he is irreplaceable and there is no one in the wings set to be a star fullback. Frawley will be pushing for AA honour again this season given an injury free run and a better midfield. We really can't afford to lose players of this quality.

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

Granted, but I was responding to this:

That line doesn't wash with me. That was my point. The rest wasn't directed at you specifically.

itmay not wash with you but it is a fact.

Last year particularly was an absolute trainwreck and the playing list was paid $ millions all up.

[puntkick 325]

Unfortunatly thats all part of the AFL celery cap WYL

Hopefully we get a bit more bang for our buck this year !

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

Unfortunatly thats all part of the AFL celery cap WYL

Hopefully we get a bit more bang for our buck this year !

that is all i want Punt. And until we see it no player is safe in my eyes.

Earn another contract or go.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

This is not good, other teams will throughing money at Frawley his the best Full back in the game in my opinion

[P-man 13,366]

itmay not wash with you but it is a fact.

Last year particularly was an absolute trainwreck and the playing list was paid $ millions all up.

WYL, you are dwelling upon something that is part and parcel of professional sport.

If you're trying to argue that Frawley hasn't earned his keep in relation to other players, then that is a separate point. Bleating on about them being paid well is a tired point. As I have already said, for alot of these guys they are going to have to make the money from their football careers go the distance and then some. To say you have no sympathy for the players because of what they get paid is pretty churlish and petty in my opinion. Everyone at the club is unhappy about the last few years, I dare say none moreso than the players, and Frawley would be near the top of that list.

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

This is not good, other teams will throughing money at Frawley his the best Full back in the game in my opinion

Best Full Back in the AFL? Really. It's been a while since the 2010 season. Chip had a solid year back then...

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

WYL, you are dwelling upon something that is part and parcel of professional sport.

If you're trying to argue that Frawley hasn't earned his keep in relation to other players, then that is a separate point. Bleating on about them being paid well is a tired point. As I have already said, for alot of these guys they are going to have to make the money from their football careers go the distance and then some. To say you have no sympathy for the players because of what they get paid is pretty churlish and petty in my opinion. Everyone at the club is unhappy about the last few years, I dare say none moreso than the players, and Frawley would be near the top of that list.

The players drive the bus mate. For our list of players to be on the same wages as those at Whorethon and Geelong is what does gets me angry.

Chip may want out at the end of the year, that is his right. Free Agency was voted in by the players for the players. Do not forget that.

But he better not hold the club to ransom and put in another average season. That is all i am saying.

You want to earn good money. You earn it with hard work. Like any job.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,184]

- If he goes, it won't take long for a new star Demon full back to emerge.

Really? Before Chip came along I'd been waiting close to 2 decades for a decent full back since Danny Hughes left for the Crows.

Chip is one of, if not my outright, favourite player. I'll be shattered if he leaves but am not sweating bullets just yet. I've thought he'd go for more than a year now so a walkout wouldn't surprise me it would still [censored] me off though. Having said that I could understand it in his position, no one would want to spend potentially their whole career anchored to the bottom not playing finals or GF's.

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

Danny Hughes. Now there was a topline full back.

Could hit the centre circle on the 'G kicking out from the goal square.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

Earn another contract or go.

You want to earn good money. You earn it with hard work. Like any job.

Gosh that's a load of [censored].

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

Gosh that's a load of [censored].

Gosh. Why?

Because i do not hold emotional ties to the players on our list?

Chip has been pretty ordinary since 2011. Go back and check the Game Day Threads.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

Gosh. Why?

Because i do not hold emotional ties to the players on our list?

Chip has been pretty ordinary since 2011. Go back and check the Game Day Threads.

No, your world view just has very little connection with reality, whether you have emotional ties or not!

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

whoa them some crazy words.

Frawley an athlete type footballer? That's rubbish. He's not just an athlete because he's fast and might not be an amazing kick. Star full backs at the demons, what like Nicholson, Shanahan, Lamb etc. More rubbish. If Frawley leaves we are looking at a kid, trade (unlikely to find quality) or Pedersen at full back. That doesn't sound too good to me.

Here's some more for you seeing as you liked them so much:

- Why doesn't he sign up, show some loyalty, get behind the cause, stop winging & help get the team into the finals? This kind of attitude is the exact reason why teams can't build a "together" like culture that leads to Premierships.

- I've got no time for this "putting off contract talk crap" *Sign up or [censored] off*

- Sounds like Scully all over again. Doomsday like for everyone at the time.....worked out well for us in the end.

- I hope he has a good season to increase his desirability, $ value in order to get better compensation in the event he leaves.

- Start canvassing now to shake someone loose during Free agency or trade.

- It's a new era, players moving from club to club more freely, which means that if the club is smart it will position itself well to replace likes with likes or better. We basically went and recruited a whole midfield in the last free agency & trade period. I think we can cover Chip.

- He is definitely more athlete than footballer.

- Often people reject things as rubbish on this website, and they turn out to be the truth, which some people have a hard time dealing with.

- Stay open, remain flexible & don't reject things so quickly - because often things that look bad, turn out to be not as bad as you thought.

[DEE fence 5,004]

Remember the pack feeding mentality of the press, they will do everything to beat this up and get as much out of the 'free agency story' they can. Some stay and some go, $ was a liar, Frawley however deserves the benefit of the doubt and I'm not going to let the press reporting on this subject freak me out. I would however be morose and foul tempered should the big bugger leave the club-far beyond what is a reasonable amount of emotion to invest in a sports team.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

Really? Before Chip came along I'd been waiting close to 2 decades for a decent full back since Danny Hughes left for the Crows.

Chip is one of, if not my outright, favourite player. I'll be shattered if he leaves but am not sweating bullets just yet. I've thought he'd go for more than a year now so a walkout wouldn't surprise me it would still [censored] me off though. Having said that I could understand it in his position, no one would want to spend potentially their whole career anchored to the bottom not playing finals or GF's.

I'd give anything to see a Frawley & Hogan match-up in a couple of years time - Who would have the edge do you think?

[jazza 1,323]

I'd give anything to see a Frawley & Hogan match-up in a couple of years time - Who would have the edge do you think?

hoges

the last time he was scared ,was in grade 2 when a fat shiela tried to kiss him

[P-man 13,366]

The players drive the bus mate. For our list of players to be on the same wages as those at Whorethon and Geelong is what does gets me angry.

Chip may want out at the end of the year, that is his right. Free Agency was voted in by the players for the players. Do not forget that.

But he better not hold the club to ransom and put in another average season. That is all i am saying.

You want to earn good money. You earn it with hard work. Like any job.

So Frawley hasn't worked hard? Where's your evidence?

They're not trained monkeys, they're humans. Staying motivated in that environment would have been a struggle for anyone. You can stamp your feet and sound as ruthless as you like, but your view seems completely detached from that fact.

[rjay 24,883]

I'd give anything to see a Frawley & Hogan match-up in a couple of years time - Who would have the edge do you think?

I hope you don't mean Hogan is leaving. The only time I want to see that match up is in an intraclub, saw it last year at Casey.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I am probably in a very small club here as I would suggest that as good as chip is hes not quite the irreplaceable star many would have him as. He has yet to replicate his AA year and quite frankly many games he played were quite flat.

Id prefer him to stay.. id also prefer he regains his A game.

If he goes he goes. All just part of the game now.

[DemonOX 8,783]

I am probably in a very small club here as I would suggest that as good as chip is hes not quite the irreplaceable star many would have him as. He has yet to replicate his AA year and quite frankly many games he played were quite flat.

Id prefer him to stay.. id also prefer he regains his A game.

If he goes he goes. All just part of the game now.

Very hard to judge Frawleys performance bb especially considering the ball was in his area for 95% of the bloody time and with no pressure coming in.

No player no matter how good could cope with the that much ball coming in.

Once our midfield improves the back line will cope a lot better.

We have a great back line and forward line and the missing piece is the midfield.

Edited January 31, 2014 by DemonOX

[Guest]

So Frawley hasn't worked hard? Where's your evidence?

They're not trained monkeys, they're humans. Staying motivated in that environment would have been a struggle for anyone. You can stamp your feet and sound as ruthless as you like, but your view seems completely detached from that fact.

I will also add that while Chip hasn't been the player he was in 2010, he has been serviceable. He has played through injury, has never really had his pants pulled down (I remember him keeping Buddy Franklin to two goals against Hawthorn last year when considering the unimpeded delivery into the forward 50, he could have kicked 15 if he wanted to) and has carried himself with a fair bit of grace. Remember as well that he debuted in 2007. He has been at the club for 8 years and in that time the club has never cracked it for double figures in the win column.

The thing that has annoyed me about MFC is that it has been a value free zone for too long. This sounds strange (I know) but all it has ever cared about is it's own success but has not given a crap about it's employees. This has ultimately been counterproductive as people have seen it for what it is and when given the chance, move on. Jared Rivers and Brad Green come to mind on this front.

We trot this 'Now, we are being ruthless!' line out every so often but what does that really mean? It doesn't mean being ruthless to the opposition. It usually means being ruthless (more like insensitive) towards long term club servants. If we want to be a club where people actually want to play, the club (and perhaps the supporter base) need to lose this sense of entitlement that players should want to give their right nut to play for the MFC because that is folly. Remember how 'eager' Luke Ball was to come and play with us? Right now we have come off nearly a decade of failure. We need to show people why they should want to come play for us. Not vice versa.

And Chip is right to wait and see.