How will the gameplan evolve with a forward line?

[Dees2014 2,377]

By necessity, Paul Roos revealed only part of our longer term gameplan on Friday night. It begs the question what will it look like with a dominant tall forward line and first class rucks (Jamar, Gawn even Fitzy).

When we have a forward set up of Howe, Dawes, Hogan, Fitz, Clark, and JKH, where will our gameplan evolve too. Personally I think we will keep the disciplined defensive processes both in the front and back halves, and the switching keepings off we exhibited so successfully the other night, but our options going forward in the future open up considerably. There will be more of a mix of fast running in groups into the forward half and long bombing. Specifically, what roles Dawes, hogan, Clark and Howe play in this will be interesting to see, and where Fitz fits in also. The addition of JKH is a huge boost to the potential effectiveness of the whole set up. I would be very interested in others views on this. No doubt the brains trust has given this a lot of thought, but it will be very interesting to see how it eveolves.

One further comment about the Nab Challenge games. There were a number of times on Friday night where we took shots for goal on the 50 meter line which should have been 9 pointers if we had have hand passed to a runner with a booming kick outside the 50 ( eg Dunn, Frawley, Vince). It is an opportunity we should take against Geelong.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

JKH not DKH.

Anyway I think Dawes replaces Pedersen, a second ruck or one of Clark or Fitzpatrick replaces King and Hogan takes Howe's role and Howe then moves to playing as a mobile forward who can crumb, mark, lead, get up the ground etc.

No real reason the structure has to change too much from what we saw Friday night. Without the rotations and 6 on the bench it means we will have a second big deep target where as Friday night King didn't play too much forward or get involved much forward but that doesn't have to change much.

The best parts of the forward structure on Friday were that there was obviously hard leading from Bail and JKH in particular to get the ball all the way up the ground and on the switch. And whilst it didn't show up on TV or in the stats apparently Pedersen was leading hard as well. The other important factor was that patience will be rewarded when kicking in to a crowded forward line and that shouldn't change with bigger guys. Bail picked out Howe, Toumpas (i think?) picked out Bail, there were a few moments we made smart kicks and found space in congestion. Good big forwards (Hogan, Dawes, Clark) lead exceptionally well and draw both the ball and defenders, they should be capable of getting on the end of slow build ups. Barry Hall at Sydney was the king of the short little lead to 40m out from the kicker at 60 out. They other forwards and mids drew away from some space for him, he pushed off a defender and bang a few quick steps and he was lining up in range.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Interestingly, in Roos post game comments, he said the forwards by necessity had a hard running game because we did not have the opportunity of "easier" goals because we had no high marking forwards. This to me implies there will at least be in the future mix much more long kicking into the forward line which will rely on the obvious marking talents of Hogan, Dawes and Clark, and the exciting crumbling possibilities of JKH.

It considerably increases our options going forward, and will make us extremely difficult to match up on.

This only works of course if we have a mid field which can get the ball, and that to me was the most pleasing part of Friday. Roos has constructed a quality mid field. From there all sorts of possibilities open up.

The test will be Geelong. I think we I'll be very competitive.

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

At Sydney Roos loved midfielders kicking goals built around a central, strong forward in Hall and a gun 2nd forward in O'Loughlin. I can see a similar set up for us, but with more options for pack marking. Although Clark, Hogan, Fitz, Dawes provide great options for contested marking I still reckon we will see Bail, Trengove, Jones, Vince have many running shots for goal near 50m.

[Sir Why You Little 37,133]

The gameplan is all about denying the opposition team use of the ball so i doubt it will change much.

When the forward line returns it should just be more effective.

What the midfielders must all become is reliable short kickers.

Cough up the ball and it all goes pear shaped.

[sue 9,145]

....

One further comment about the Nab Challenge games. There were a number of times on Friday night where we took shots for goal on the 50 meter line which should have been 9 pointers if we had have hand passed to a runner with a booming kick outside the 50 ( eg Dunn, Frawley, Vince). It is an opportunity we should take against Geelong.

I'm not sold on that. We are practising for the real games where there are no 9 pointers. So worth doing only if you'd do it in a real game (eg player is not a long kick, area clogged), Might be worth doing it at the end of a NAB game if it gets us over the line for a win.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I'm not sold on that. We are practising for the real games where there are no 9 pointers. So worth doing only if you'd do it in a real game (eg player is not a long kick, area clogged), Might be worth doing it at the end of a NAB game if it gets us over the line for a win.

I think it would be worth doing in the home and away too. Surely it is about getting maximum productivity in goal kicking. Something the demon final teams under Daniher used to use Paul Wheatley very effectively for. Dunn is a similar booming kick.

[puntkick 325]

Awesome in theory. On the park whenever is also theory !

[old dee 23,872]

It will be interesting to see the change when we have two or three of Hogan, Dawes and Fitzy available.

I think Hogan will play a limited number of games this year. So it will be up to Dawes and Fitzy most weeks.

[puntkick 325]

It will be interesting to see the change when we have two or three of Hogan, Dawes and Fitzy available.

I think Hogan will play a limited number of games this year. So it will be up to Dawes and Fitzy most weeks.

So have you written off Clark OD ?

[Dees2014 2,377]

It will be interesting to see the change when we have two or three of Hogan, Dawes and Fitzy available.

I think Hogan will play a limited number of games this year. So it will be up to Dawes and Fitzy most weeks.

Not sure I agree. Having seen Hogan at Casey a number of times last year, he plays like a mature adult, and has awesome strength for someone so young, and an impressive tank. I think he will play 15+ games next year as long as his body stands up (which I suppose to some extent is your point). Hopefully Clark will be back sometime in the first half of the year which will take some pressure off Hogan being there every week.

I think one interesting point in all this will be what will be Fitz's role when all of Hogan, Clark, Dawes, Howe are available. One of the great things about him is he has considerable acceleration and a good tank so could play midfield or wing (Watts and Fitz either wing would be a challenging match up for most sides, particularly on a dry day). Most likely though I suspect he will be a super sub when dry, and at Casey when wet.

A nice challenge to have.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

I would like to think we will be kick it around the 50m line until someone is free on the lead or kick it to a one on one contest to allow our forwards to use there big body's to there advantage. Instead of resent years where we would just boot it high to pack and hope Clark can mark in instead of bulldozing the pack and knocking himself out.

[old dee 23,872]

So have you written off Clark OD ?

No but I am finding it increasingly hard to see him taking part at senior level for some weeks.

He has proven to have a body that does heal well from injury over his time with the MFC.

He as another expensive year contract in 2015.

The management will be wanting a good year in 2015 from him.

So IMO he will not be pushed this season.

Based on the above I think the majority of the forward tall work is going to fall to Hogan, Dawes and fitzy.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

If we have a couple of tall marking options, I would expect to see much the same in the back half but much quicker movement through the HF area. By necessity we were moving the ball up to HF and then stalling to find a hard-leading option to kick to or for someone to slip into the gap behind the lead. Once we have the talls in place this stall won't be necessary and we should see much quicker movement of the ball from half way to the marking forward. Hopefully this will allow us to get the ball in to one-on-one contests before the opposition can send extra help back there, thus giving our forwards a good shot at marking and making sure our crumbers aren't outnumbered.

As to who those tall options may be, I don't want to speculate too much, but as I've said before, Fitz could find himself playing more than many people suspect.

[jazza 1,323]

The gameplan is all about denying the opposition team use of the ball so i doubt it will change much.

When the forward line returns it should just be more effective.

What the midfielders must all become is reliable short kickers.

Cough up the ball and it all goes pear shaped.

spot on gramps.

the PR way is to cut down on ball use and mistakes,thats why terlich and others will be more effective this year.

prepare for games that are 10 goals to 7 at 3/4 time.

they might look boring ,but we will always be in with a chance to sneak a win.

this is the PAUL ROOS way.

so i hope dee supporters dont complain about boring footy this year.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I am a little concerned the 3 talls and Howe might be too crowded. will be interesting to see how it's managed,

[Sir Why You Little 37,133]

spot on gramps.

the PR way is to cut down on ball use and mistakes,thats why terlich and others will be more effective this year.

prepare for games that are 10 goals to 7 at 3/4 time.

they might look boring ,but we will always be in with a chance to sneak a win.

this is the PAUL ROOS way.

so i hope dee supporters dont complain about boring footy this year.

First time i have ever been called Gramps!!

Thanks.

But i do want multiple Premiership Cups at regular intervals soon!!

[old dee 23,872]

First time i have ever been called Gramps!!

Thanks.

But i do want multiple Premiership Cups at regular intervals soon!!

Relative term that wyl

For someone 20 that could easily mean next decade.

For me that means 2016.

But to be honest in reality it probably means 2018-20

[Sir Why You Little 37,133]

Relative term that wyl

For someone 20 that could easily mean next decade.

For me that means 2016.

But to be honest in reality it probably means 2018-20

i want it much earlier than that OD.

15-16 by that time!!

[old dee 23,872]

i want it much earlier than that OD.

15-16 by that time!!

I think I have less years left than you, 15-16 I too would love but that truly is a stretch.

If we make the top eight in that time we will have done well.

Edited February 17, 2014 by old dee

[Guest]

If, and it's a big IF, Mitch Clarke's foot comes right then I reckon we might have to let him down for team unity. By let him down, I mean play him as a ruckman. Mitch came to the club to play as a forward but I feel that three talls might be a bit much. We may need him to do a Brad Ottens and move from being a forward to a full time ruck. Wasn't he vying for All Australian honors as a ruckman at Brissy?
I get the feeling though that the ruck situation needs to be sorted soon. We have a wealth of talent in that area and it's going to be a case of s*** or get off the pot.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

If, and it's a big IF, Mitch Clarke's foot comes right then I reckon we might have to let him down for team unity. By let him down, I mean play him as a ruckman. Mitch came to the club to play as a forward but I feel that three talls might be a bit much. We may need him to do a Brad Ottens and move from being a forward to a full time ruck. Wasn't he vying for All Australian honors as a ruckman at Brissy?

I get the feeling though that the ruck situation needs to be sorted soon. We have a wealth of talent in that area and it's going to be a case of s*** or get off the pot.

I agree mate, if you're getting paid 800,000 you do what you're told

[rjay 25,093]

If, and it's a big IF, Mitch Clarke's foot comes right then I reckon we might have to let him down for team unity. By let him down, I mean play him as a ruckman. Mitch came to the club to play as a forward but I feel that three talls might be a bit much. We may need him to do a Brad Ottens and move from being a forward to a full time ruck. Wasn't he vying for All Australian honors as a ruckman at Brissy?

I get the feeling though that the ruck situation needs to be sorted soon. We have a wealth of talent in that area and it's going to be a case of s*** or get off the pot.

I think one of MItch's problems at Brisbane was that after that almost AA year he was still second or 3rd choice ruck and he was always going to be behind Brown as the key forward. More than wanting to play as a key forward I think he wanted some certainty about his position.

Roos has flagged him as forward relief ruck, I think he is our best bet as a mid/ruck in the Ottens/Cox mould but it will be interesting to see how the 3 big rucks and Fitz come up this year.

[Dees2014 2,377]

spot on gramps.

the PR way is to cut down on ball use and mistakes,thats why terlich and others will be more effective this year.

prepare for games that are 10 goals to 7 at 3/4 time.

they might look boring ,but we will always be in with a chance to sneak a win.

this is the PAUL ROOS way.

so i hope dee supporters dont complain about boring footy this year.

I think there is a fundamental difference (at least potentially) to the PR coached swans of circa 2007, and us this season. We have an extremely powerful brute of a forward line. Potentially the best in the league. He didn't at the swans, so he was forced (very cleverly) to play possession, keepings off football. And he did it extremely successfully. I think it is significant that the Swans post Roos have spent their cash building an equivalent brute of a forward line to us with the recruitment of Tippett and Franklin. Personally I'd rather have Clark , Fitz, Dawes, Hogan, JKH and Howe than their lot any day.

Roos knows what he is dealing with here. He knows he has potentially a huge advantage on his hands. The challenge is to harness it. I think it will be the continuing fascination of this season as to exactly how he does that. I have no doubt he and his assistants will gain maximum advantage. Personally, I can't wait to see it.

[Little Goffy 14,645]

I think that people are right on the money when they say more long kicks to powerful forward targets. The way we are prepared to give up space and time to get more 'comfortable' ball use will mean that there is a lot of space between the player holding the ball and the goalsquare. We already saw a lot of hard-working and patient efforts to provide short kicks to methodically gain a bit of ground, I think that will be supplemented by smart, long, hard leads from a CHF line (Dawes' speciality) which break up the opponents defensive patterns and mean that a quick burst can get inside 50 before our opponents can push back in good order.

Personally, I'm convinced that the 'modern' game calls for having two CHFs and a FF in place so that there are always options to kick to and to provide a way of covering that final 70m as quickly as possible. With the bonus that for us, the ball is moving fast, but for our opponents a dozen midfielders and defenders are all having to run back to try to cover the breach.

I also think that having a more potent ruck in place would have the effect of allowing us the occasional direct break forward from a centre bounce, or at least give us that half-second advantage so that our spreading for space wont require giving up quite as much ground initially.

I've long been fascinated by the evasiveness and awareness of Sam Mitchell, which I think on it's own saves Hawthorn 10m every second time they spread from a stoppage.