Akum 2,660 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 He played the decoy role well. Pretty dumb defenders (and coach) to let themselves be decoyed all match, in 2014. To get away with that against a smart defence (or coach), he'd have to hold the 4 uncontested marks he dropped, 2 of which spilled over the boundary line. If he held those marks, it would be worth following him, rather than just letting him run away and holding the space. Great kick for goal though. But I doubt we'd get away with it again, unless he contributed more.
rpfc 29,089 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 He calls him Pedders. That's not a shock...
nutbean 8,838 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 He played the decoy role well. Pretty dumb defenders (and coach) to let themselves be decoyed all match, in 2014. To get away with that against a smart defence (or coach), he'd have to hold the 4 uncontested marks he dropped, 2 of which spilled over the boundary line. If he held those marks, it would be worth following him, rather than just letting him run away and holding the space. Great kick for goal though. But I doubt we'd get away with it again, unless he contributed more. The reason for the "decoy" was pretty obvious. We had zero talls outside Howe , who is not like your Dawes, Hogan or Clark type talls to allow us a normal structured forward line. So Pederson leading away from the play took the number one marking tall defender out of the play also. If we get some tall marking forwards into the side there probably isnt a need for that sort of decoy type setup. Pederson did exactly what was expected of him. In hindsight it looks like a simple coaching move but it is impressive that although Roos claims that there is no great attention paid to how the opposition structures up in NAB games and there is sole concentration on our gameplan, Roos did come up with a forward structure and plan for the night that would not be the gameplan during other games if and when we get a couple of Dawes/Hogan or Clark into the side.
Akum 2,660 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 The reason for the "decoy" was pretty obvious. We had zero talls outside Howe , who is not like your Dawes, Hogan or Clark type talls to allow us a normal structured forward line. So Pederson leading away from the play took the number one marking tall defender out of the play also. If we get some tall marking forwards into the side there probably isnt a need for that sort of decoy type setup. Pederson did exactly what was expected of him. In hindsight it looks like a simple coaching move but it is impressive that although Roos claims that there is no great attention paid to how the opposition structures up in NAB games and there is sole concentration on our gameplan, Roos did come up with a forward structure and plan for the night that would not be the gameplan during other games if and when we get a couple of Dawes/Hogan or Clark into the side. Good points and agree with all of them. But I think even Roos must have been surprised that it actually worked the whole game & that Astbury (or whoever) just kept chasing him the whole game, leaving the space open.
Satyriconhome 10,880 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Good points and agree with all of them. But I think even Roos must have been surprised that it actually worked the whole game & that Astbury (or whoever) just kept chasing him the whole game, leaving the space open. If the defender did not go with Pedersen each and everytime, and he got uncontested marks, Hardwick would have been ropable, that is why the decoy works all the time, the defender has to go.
rjay 25,482 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 If the defender did not go with Pedersen each and everytime, and he got uncontested marks, Hardwick would have been ropable, that is why the decoy works all the time, the defender has to go. Doesn't work all the time 'Sat', the forward has to be a legitimate target. Coaches have tried to draw Dustin Fletcher out with a decoy for years, he's too smart to go with a player he knows won't be hit up as a target.
Satyriconhome 10,880 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Doesn't work all the time 'Sat', the forward has to be a legitimate target. Coaches have tried to draw Dustin Fletcher out with a decoy for years, he's too smart to go with a player he knows won't be hit up as a target. Nah, that's Fletcher playing goalkeeper as the spare man, one of the forwards or mids drops back to cover his 'forward', if it is man on man then they have to go, personally I was glad to see a lot of teams going back to man on man last year instead of that zone rubbish. I am a bit more optimistic seeing how Roos coached the forward set up and all players bought into it and did their roles Roh Bail as well
Akum 2,660 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Doesn't work all the time 'Sat', the forward has to be a legitimate target. Coaches have tried to draw Dustin Fletcher out with a decoy for years, he's too smart to go with a player he knows won't be hit up as a target. That's the whole point - you wouldn't play someone as decoy if they were a legitimate target. Most teams would pick this up in the first 10-15 mins & either shut down the space, giving them an extra man in a crucial part of the ground (CHB). Or would just put their 6th defender (not their CHB) to follow them. Once that happens, the jig is up, and no point in persisting with the decoy. That's why I think Roos must have been surprised that it worked so well for so much of the game. I like Dimma, but he's not a great match day coach, and the Tiges' defenders aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Maybe by him getting the early Supergoal, they thought he was better than he is, without asking themselves "why is this guy the decoy?" To sum up: Pedo did well in the decoy role on Friday, but I doubt we'd ever be so lucky again to get away with it so well.
sue 9,287 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 He played the decoy role well. Pretty dumb defenders (and coach) to let themselves be decoyed all match, in 2014. To get away with that against a smart defence (or coach), he'd have to hold the 4 uncontested marks he dropped, 2 of which spilled over the boundary line. If he held those marks, it would be worth following him, rather than just letting him run away and holding the space. Great kick for goal though. But I doubt we'd get away with it again, unless he contributed more. The problem for the defender is that without the pressure of an opponent nearby he may not have dropped those marks. Also if the attacking club starts to realise he is not being followed, then they can start using the decoy as a target. It's up to the coach to direct the defender.
mdemonski2 403 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Reading the ped discussion, it is nice to see we actually have a smart coach on match day. Makes a pleasant change that we can actually observe some smart coaching results on field.
rjay 25,482 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 That's the whole point - you wouldn't play someone as decoy if they were a legitimate target. Most teams would pick this up in the first 10-15 mins & either shut down the space, giving them an extra man in a crucial part of the ground (CHB). Or would just put their 6th defender (not their CHB) to follow them. Once that happens, the jig is up, and no point in persisting with the decoy. That's why I think Roos must have been surprised that it worked so well for so much of the game. I like Dimma, but he's not a great match day coach, and the Tiges' defenders aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Maybe by him getting the early Supergoal, they thought he was better than he is, without asking themselves "why is this guy the decoy?" To sum up: Pedo did well in the decoy role on Friday, but I doubt we'd ever be so lucky again to get away with it so well. Were or weren't. If they are not a legitimate target the defender won't go with them. Some coaches have tried to use their lesser players as decoys but most good players and coaches are wake up and will zone off the decoy pretty quickly. It doesn't mean they leave them on their own but their main focus is the real target. I've said for a while now that Hardwick is not a good match day coach, it's only a matter of time until the so called experts in the media pick up on it. He's a good guy so they don't call him on it...yet.
Satyriconhome 10,880 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Apart from asking Cam about his role, spoke to a few players at the Family Day, they all had specific roles, instructions and structures to adhere to, and that Roos' message during the breaks was just stick to what they had been told. JKH said when he sat down for the 3rd qtr he watched intently concentrating on the structures, which enabled him to have the impact he did in the 4th
rjay 25,482 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Apart from asking Cam about his role, spoke to a few players at the Family Day, they all had specific roles, instructions and structures to adhere to, and that Roos' message during the breaks was just stick to what they had been told. JKH said when he sat down for the 3rd qtr he watched intently concentrating on the structures, which enabled him to have the impact he did in the 4th Smart kid.
Its Time for Another 4,312 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 http://demonwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Norm+Smith I knew that before I searched for a link. That just happened to be the first that popped up. I'm sure if you wanted to dig deeper you'd find better and more comprehensive write ups on his playing career (no offence to Demon wiki, it's just that I'm pretty sure Red Fox covered it well, and I'm sure there are other articles). I was simply supporting the point that playing decoy isn't a slap at you on your playing ability. It just means that the coach thinks you are the best man for that job. If you can do it and the opposition feels that they can't afford to leave you alone, then you are a valuable member of the side. Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Very impressed by this backing up opinion with well researched fact.
jnrmac 20,419 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 That's not a shock... I'd like to absorb that before commenting....
daisycutter 30,048 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I'd like to absorb that before commenting.... nice spring back jnr
Akum 2,660 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Very impressed by this backing up opinion with well researched fact. But can Demonland withstand such a drastic change???
monoccular 17,815 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Apart from asking Cam about his role, spoke to a few players at the Family Day, they all had specific roles, instructions and structures to adhere to, and that Roos' message during the breaks was just stick to what they had been told. JKH said when he sat down for the 3rd qtr he watched intently concentrating on the structures, which enabled him to have the impact he did in the 4th I know this is a Cam Pedersen thread, but S's last paragraph cannot go without comment.To paraphrase Bruce, I really think we may have someone "very special" in JKH. Not just based in the excitement of his final moments in the last quarter of a preseason game, but on what I have read, and briefly seen, of his training work ethic, and his mature demeanor. He is a thinker, a learner, and a doer, and even a perhaps a leader even at this very very early stage. GO JKH. GO DEES.
Redleg 42,287 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I watched the game again on Foxtel and noticed the following, Pedersen fumbled every chance he had to take the ball or was simply beaten in every contest. The goal from Barry's play came from another Pedersen fumble, where Dom swooped and grabbed the ball off the ground, after Pedersen failed to handball it to him and merely let it fall to the ground. IMO we will need a lot of players unavailable before he gets a game.
jumbo returns 6,747 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I watched the game again on Foxtel and noticed the following, Pedersen fumbled every chance he had to take the ball or was simply beaten in every contest. The goal from Barry's play came from another Pedersen fumble, where Dom swooped and grabbed the ball off the ground, after Pedersen failed to handball it to him and merely let it fall to the ground. IMO we will need a lot of players unavailable before he gets a game. Maybe. But he wasn't the only one and he offered an option. He's played less than 30 games and there's still improvement left in him, despite his age.
old dee 24,098 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Maybe. But he wasn't the only one and he offered an option. He's played less than 30 games and there's still improvement left in him, despite his age. Not much I would suggest. I cannot remember the last time a 27 year old who has only played 30 games turned into a world beater. He is a fill in player on a good day. God I hope Fitzy, Dawes and Hogan are up for the first game
monoccular 17,815 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Maybe. But he wasn't the only one and he offered an option. He's played less than 30 games and there's still improvement left in him, despite his age. Not much I would suggest. I cannot remember the last time a 27 year old who has only played 30 games turned into a world beater. He is a fill in player on a good day. God I hope Fitzy, Dawes and Hogan are up for the first game A team is only as good as its depth, unless they have an incredible run of good luck with injury, so good on Roos for supporting Cam and seeing where he stands. I for one wish him well.
old dee 24,098 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 A team is only as good as its depth, unless they have an incredible run of good luck with injury, so good on Roos for supporting Cam and seeing where he stands. I for one wish him well. I don't disagree with this but lets not pretend he is more than an average player who offers a bit of depth at best.
jumbo returns 6,747 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I don't disagree with this but lets not pretend he is more than an average player who offers a bit of depth at best. Our whole list is full of average players, barring a handful.
old dee 24,098 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Our whole list is full of average players, barring a handful. Totally agree there jr
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.