The comment by Apocalypse XXXI about one of this year's draft prospects doing pre season training with Richmond raises the matter of the AFL's permission to train list which comes out every year around this time and gets changed on a regular basis until after the drafts are done and dusted.

I suppose these things need to be done officially and clubs want to look more closely at potential players but I wonder if it's all really worth the trouble?

How many of these blokes actually end up being drafted at the club they train with? What do clubs do about protecting their intellectual property (tactics, player positions etc.) during the period? And then you get situations like the one we had last year where Jack Hannath spent time at the club, was set to become a Demon and then discovered the Dockers came over the top and drafted him. Understand that this was part of the system and, with hindsight could have picked him up in the PSD if we had the space given up by taking Tom Gillies, but I do raise it as an issue with this period of pre season training.

Shane Woewodin is a prime example of it working in our favour. Daniel Hughes got on the list this way from memory. Dean Terlich did some pre-seasons with Port Adelaide. They come out post national draft, so its just a way for the club's to get a better feel for the borderline players/give them an opportunity and also a lot of delisted players stay with their clubs for pre-season if they have had injury problems et cetera, trying to stick around. Clancee Pearce is an example of that. I'd be very surprised if covert game-planning secrets were compromised and the like. There is only a 6-day gap between the two draft days this year anyway. Re: Hannath. Hard one. Perhaps our keenness for him developed in the time he trained with us. Inconceivable if they liked him that much, they would expose the possibility of other clubs getting him.

The Hannath one got up a lot of people's noses. It was plain stupid (strategically) of the Club to not leave a single spot on the Pre-Season Draft list, when we were guaranteed one of the first picks (as we are again this year). Extremely naiive and arrogant to assume that nobody would pounce on good players listed in the PSD and to assume we could merely stroll in during the Rookie Draft and grab him.

I think its a bit overblown to be honest. Reality is Hannath will battle to get games with Freo next year and he'd struggle to get games with us as well and he was pretty mediocre last year. They made an error in judgment on Gillies and they got unlucky Hannath didn't fall. There was no arrogance and naivety, they didn't have a senior list spot, which was perhaps a strategic error. The PDS is a light of other days in any case - free agency has all but destroyed the need for it.

I think its a bit overblown to be honest. Reality is Hannath will battle to get games with Freo next year and he'd struggle to get games with us as well and he was pretty mediocre last year. They made an error in judgment on Gillies and they got unlucky Hannath didn't fall. There was no arrogance and naivety, they didn't have a senior list spot, which was perhaps a strategic error. The PDS is a light of other days in any case - free agency has all but destroyed the need for it.

I agree that Hannath would be unlikely to get a game at Melbourne in 2014 as part of our best 22 given the current targetted re-build. Hannath was only an example at the time. Next time it may be a gem that we miss out on merely through flawed (or no) strategy. Maybe, as you point out, free-agency has changed the dynamics this year and so far, most 'Landers would have to be happy with our draft strategy so far!

I agree that Hannath would be unlikely to get a game at Melbourne in 2014 as part of our best 22 given the current targetted re-build. Hannath was only an example at the time. Next time it may be a gem that we miss out on merely through flawed (or no) strategy. Maybe, as you point out, free-agency has changed the dynamics this year and so far, most 'Landers would have to be happy with our draft strategy so far!

Like say, Rockliff?

Is there a technical (read: legal) reason why the "permission-to-train" process is followed? Is it required for workers compensation or public liability purposes?

Is there a technical (read: legal) reason why the "permission-to-train" process is followed? Is it required for workers compensation or public liability purposes?

Could well have to do with insurance. What happens if a player is training with a club but not employed by them and is badly injured? Presumably by listing them with the AFL they will be covered for injury incurred during this period. To my mind that would be the main concern.

I think its a bit overblown to be honest. Reality is Hannath will battle to get games with Freo next year and he'd struggle to get games with us as well and he was pretty mediocre last year.

...

The point is that we wouldn't need Hannath for 2014, but for 2017 to 2020, when he'd be coming into his prime, Clark & Gawn & Fitz would be showing signs of wear, and Jamar would be long gone.

The point is that we wouldn't need Hannath for 2014, but for 2017 to 2020, when he'd be coming into his prime, Clark & Gawn & Fitz would be showing signs of wear, and Jamar would be long gone.

Gawn is younger than Hannath, Fitzpatrick is the same age. Don't really see the point holding a list spot for four years so we have a ruckman who may or not be good enough enter his prime as a 27 year old ready to overtake a couple of 27 year olds who may be better than him in any case.

The list of unlisted players with permission to train with AFL clubs is down to 23 players -

Adelaide: Jesse O'Brien (Brisbane)

Collingwood: Corey Gault (Collingwood)

Essendon: Michael Sikora (Essendon VFL)

Fremantle: Paul Bower (Peel Thunder) Sean Hurley (J'town GAA)

Melbourne: Neville Jetta (Melbourne)

Port Adelaide: Frazer Dale (Carlton) Sam Gray (Port Adelaide Magpies) Daniel Kulikowski (Port Adelaide Magpies) Aseri Raikiwasa (Port Adelaide Magpies), Brent Renouf (Port Adelaide)

Richmond: Ryan Bathie (Geelong) Nathan Batsanis (Port Melbourne) Matt Thomas (Port Adelaide)

St Kilda: Cameron Banfield (Sandringham) Josh Bennett (Sandringham) Ned Fallon (Sandringham) Kenny Ong (Sandringham) Patrick Tiernan (Sandringham) Carl Peterson (Doncaster East) Ahmed Saad (St Kilda) Maverick Weller (Gold Coast Suns)

West Coast Eagles: Murray Newman (West Coast Eagles)

The list of unlisted players with permission to train with AFL clubs is down to 23 players -

Adelaide: Jesse O'Brien (Brisbane)

Collingwood: Corey Gault (Collingwood)

Essendon: Michael Sikora (Essendon VFL)

Fremantle: Paul Bower (Peel Thunder) Sean Hurley (J'town GAA)

Melbourne: Neville Jetta (Melbourne)

Port Adelaide: Frazer Dale (Carlton) Sam Gray (Port Adelaide Magpies) Daniel Kulikowski (Port Adelaide Magpies) Aseri Raikiwasa (Port Adelaide Magpies), Brent Renouf (Port Adelaide)

Richmond: Ryan Bathie (Geelong) Nathan Batsanis (Port Melbourne) Matt Thomas (Port Adelaide)

St Kilda: Cameron Banfield (Sandringham) Josh Bennett (Sandringham) Ned Fallon (Sandringham) Kenny Ong (Sandringham) Patrick Tiernan (Sandringham) Carl Peterson (Doncaster East) Ahmed Saad (St Kilda) Maverick Weller (Gold Coast Suns)

West Coast Eagles: Murray Newman (West Coast Eagles)

Now who can we poach from that list with our second pick?

Not one of them. The only one that comes close to that is Nathan Batsanis .. however I would rather use that pick on Chris Cain as he offers a lot more flexibility in being able to play different positions.

Doesn't look like anyone worth taking maybe Weller as a rookie, after the draft we won't have any spots left to use in psd

What do people think about rookie-ing Matt Thomas from Port?

Now who can we poach from that list with our second pick?

Depends on who is the skinniest and is a good VFL level player!

Is it too late to delist further to give ourselves at least one selection in the PSD as insurance against allowing somebody we have in mind for the Rookie Draft being snatached beforehand (as happened last year with Hannath)? With pick two (#2) ours (and the likliehood of GWS already having committed to somebody) we effectively get first pick in both the PSD and Rookie Draft. It may be prudent to at least allow ourselves that option.

The point is that we wouldn't need Hannath for 2014, but for 2017 to 2020, when he'd be coming into his prime, Clark & Gawn & Fitz would be showing signs of wear, and Jamar would be long gone.

Showing signs of wear? They're not hiking boots mate, they're footballers...

Is it too late to delist further to give ourselves at least one selection in the PSD as insurance against allowing somebody we have in mind for the Rookie Draft being snatached beforehand (as happened last year with Hannath)? With pick two (#2) ours (and the likliehood of GWS already having committed to somebody) we effectively get first pick in both the PSD and Rookie Draft. It may be prudent to at least allow ourselves that option.

That strategy is analagous to trading up from Pick 80 to Pick 72 in the main draft in the hope that our 45th ranked player will be there at pick 72. If it was that crucial to obtain such a player, you would take them at Pick 57. This kind of thinking would have you constantly trading manically upwards in paranoia.

Edited November 19, 201311 yr by goodoil

Carl Peterson is a talent. If his head is in the right place (it wasn't when he was delisted by the Hawks), he'd easily be in our best 22.

Carl Peterson is a talent. If his head is in the right place (it wasn't when he was delisted by the Hawks), he'd easily be in our best 22.

And you base that on?

And you base that on?

Which part?

Carl Peterson is a talent. If his head is in the right place (it wasn't when he was delisted by the Hawks), he'd easily be in our best 22.

Arghh tell me your not serious...

Carl Peterson is a talent. If his head is in the right place (it wasn't when he was delisted by the Hawks), he'd easily be in our best 22.

Agree he is talented but there is no chance I would have thought. We don't need a high-leaping half-forward, so doesn't make sense from that aspect, to speak nothing of his troublesome past.

Agree he is talented but there is no chance I would have thought. We don't need a high-leaping half-forward, so doesn't make sense from that aspect, to speak nothing of his troublesome past.

He might have trouble passing the NDH policy