And in the unwitting irony stakes you again win.

Compares Bob's changes while disregarding own (re: coaches and admin) and then suggests that bob's credibility = questionable.

It is amazing that you front a forum where your schtick is living/dying on your judgement calls and you have consistent and epic failures on this topic (Bailey, Neeld, Jimmy, the Board, schwab and various players), yet blithely hoe into others on issues of judgement.

And let's be really clear: your calls have been wrong about the issues that have led to the club being on its knees and near dead. It's not a matter of not guessing about player development.

Off all the big calls about the club in the last 5 years, you have been wrong on all of them.

All.

Every time.

Without fail.

Bob has been right on all. Without fail.

Perhaps a sense of shame will see you say less about others for while.

As soon as I saw your name I knew you'd be responding to me. You make me laugh Timmy.

As for judgement calls ? i always lean to giving any new CEO, coach, president, etc the benefit of the doubt. That's the way I roll.

Unlike others, I don't remain steadfastly wedded to a view. As evidence comes to hand I process it.

But you keep getting rapt up in my views and posts all you like. I'll give you the odd bone if you're a good boy.

Morton's problem has nothing to do with body size. Have a look at Fletcher is as skinny as he has always been. His problem is the way football is played. Football has become full of structure and set plays. Cale is an instinct player. If he ran and carried and disposed the ball he most often made the right play, but if he stopped propped and thought about it then more than often he would turn 'it' over. With him its just do, don't think, just do.

Wait is this a "Bring back Morton" thread?

I think he'll definitely find his way onto another list, probably as a rookie.

Are you kidding??? This bloke had the same desire for a tackle and hard ball get as Homer Simpsons love of salad. The bloke was flaccid on all counts, and even in his latest game WAFL GF on a wet windy day he still cant register a tackle in a whole game. The amateurs are calling Cale, loud and clear !!!

Cale Morton, Jordan Gysberts and Lucas Cook have taught me something about recruiting AFL players.

While all three did well as junior players they all had some serious physical and psychological deficiencies that prevented them from becoming senior AFL footballers and more importantly owning a position. These were evident as juniors.

You don't recruit players, particularly with high picks with these serious deficiencies in the hope that they will improve.

Cale Morton, Jordan Gysberts and Lucas Cook have taught me something about recruiting AFL players.

While all three did well as junior players they all had some serious physical and psychological deficiencies that prevented them from becoming senior AFL footballers and more importantly owning a position. These were evident as juniors.

You don't recruit players, particularly with high picks with these serious deficiencies in the hope that they will improve.

You just missed Lance Franklin.

You just missed Lance Franklin.

Lol

So what tools was young Lance missing as a junior?

This will be fun, you argue so well.

There's mistakes and then there's deliberate mistakes. We just can't take a trick with our drafting. Natural ball winners with good vision who are reasonably quick have to be high on the agenda - and they need to be able to kick properly, make good decisions and be a natural leader. Can we just have one of these types please?

What's astonishing is that we've yet to unearth a genuine A grade elite player since the advent of the draft (27 years ago) A player who without hesitation could be included in a team of a decade (or such like)

Jimmy and Garry were pre the '86 draft so that leaves Neitz who goes awfully close. The Ox as well if not for injuries. Tingay was a terrific player as well.

We are due a healthy slice of luck going forward. Hogan and/or Viney could get there. Other clubs unearth absolute stars from way outside the top 10 picks. Goodes (43) Black (31) and Hird (92) are just 3 examples.

Cale just never got any better than his under 18 year - impossible to predict.

Didn't Neitz and Schwarz come up through the old Under 19's? Not sure how that worked with the draft in those days but I'd assume we were able to graduate them to our primary list without going through the draft?

Didn't Neitz and Schwarz come up through the old Under 19's? Not sure how that worked with the draft in those days but I'd assume we were able to graduate them to our primary list without going through the draft?

Yes they did. I have wondered did our zones finally start to produce some real talent just as zoning came to an end? Lyon, Schwartz and Neitz is not a bad hit rate between 1986 to 1993 for KPP's anyway. MFC were duded in the great equalisation experiment of the 60's that was designed to weaken us and Collingwood and promote the Hawks and others. For the 20 previous years all our zones ever produced of elite status was Robert Flower.

Yes they did. I have wondered did our zones finally start to produce some real talent just as zoning came to an end? Lyon, Schwartz and Neitz is not a bad hit rate between 1986 to 1993 for KPP's anyway. MFC were duded in the great equalisation experiment of the 60's that was designed to weaken us and Collingwood and promote the Hawks and others. For the 20 previous years all our zones ever produced of elite status was Robert Flower.

And he recruited himself!

Lol

So what tools was young Lance missing as a junior?

This will be fun, you argue so well.

Lance was a Melbourne supporter when he was a junior.

I understand he's managed to overcome that now.

MFC were duded in the great equalisation experiment of the 60's that was designed to weaken us and Collingwood and promote the Hawks and others.

So few actually understand what an important point of our history this is: they want to rabbit on about culture and such things and while there is something in that the rot began with us in the VFL's sights and they nailed us to the wall.

Good to meet you.

Our zones were crap, although we got Flower, Healy and a few others and our drafting has been crap.

Scotty Thompson was our best selection, but never became A-grade with us. Outside of Thompson I'd argue that despite his deficiencies Adem Yze has been our best draft pick.

I think it's fair to say that at his best Yze played A-grade years.

Our zones were crap, although we got Flower, Healy and a few others and our drafting has been crap.

Scotty Thompson was our best selection, but never became A-grade with us. Outside of Thompson I'd argue that despite his deficiencies Adem Yze has been our best draft pick.

I think it's fair to say that at his best Yze played A-grade years.

I learnt something else last week when I listened to a motivational talk from Tom Hafey. He was listing players who had been rejected at one club but fought on to prove themselves and became champions. He said Kevin Sheedy was rejected by MFC so he must have been in our zone and we went past him.

I learnt something else last week when I listened to a motivational talk from Tom Hafey. He was listing players who had been rejected at one club but fought on to prove themselves and became champions. He said Kevin Sheedy was rejected by MFC so he must have been in our zone and we went past him.

Sheedy played for Prahran in the VFA which was a breeding ground for the MFC but went to Richmond instead of Melbourne; I never knew why he did.

Lol

So what tools was young Lance missing as a junior?

This will be fun, you argue so well.

A few more than the considerable number he is missing now....

I think it's fair to say that at his best Yze played A-grade years.

Inconsistency was one of Yzes issues so I would replace years with games.

But he would be our best draft pick. It says a lot for the past 20 years or so.

Inconsistency was one of Yzes issues so I would replace years with games.

But he would be our best draft pick. It says a lot for the past 20 years or so.

He had years (2001 and 2002 - may be others) where he had more kicks than any other player in the league.

I'm happy to give him "years".

The zones were supposed to operate on a rotation, but the clubs who got the good zones convinced the VFL to make the zones permanent.

Sheedy played for Prahran in the VFA which was a breeding ground for the MFC but went to Richmond instead of Melbourne; I never knew why he did.

The Wikipedia on Sheedy says he was invited to MFC but didn't like it and later MFC gave permission to the Tiges to look at him. I think you can say we looked at him and were not interested. Hafey talked about him as the cultural leader at the Tiges who thrived on Tom's extreme physical regimes that gave those teams the edge. He had mongrel and Tom loved him for it.

The Wikipedia on Sheedy says he was invited to MFC but didn't like it and later MFC gave permission to the Tiges to look at him. I think you can say we looked at him and were not interested. Hafey talked about him as the cultural leader at the Tiges who thrived on Tom's extreme physical regimes that gave those teams the edge. He had mongrel and Tom loved him for it.

Melbourne was a very conservative club and I doubt that Sheedy would have been the type of player that they would have welcomed; there has been decades of conservatism behind the MFC and that's why we are what we are.

Norm Smith was too radical for us and there were probably some from that era that would have preferred not to win the flags if it meant not having him there.

Sad really.

Melbourne was a very conservative club and I doubt that Sheedy would have been the type of player that they would have welcomed; there has been decades of conservatism behind the MFC and that's why we are what we are.

Norm Smith was too radical for us and there were probably some from that era that would have preferred not to win the flags if it meant not having him there.

Sad really.

and this is why I want to see us have a training complex with Offices & Board room away from the 'G'. play our games at the MCG.

Melbourne was a very conservative club and I doubt that Sheedy would have been the type of player that they would have welcomed; there has been decades of conservatism behind the MFC and that's why we are what we are.

Norm Smith was too radical for us and there were probably some from that era that would have preferred not to win the flags if it meant not having him there.

Sad really.

Too many "Gin and Tonic" swilling pheasant hunters around the place in those days. Takes a long time to weed out that culture. Not enough of the"roll the sleeves up and get the hands dirty" types which is why we haven't won a flag since 1964. Hopefully more culture change for us coming up soon and then we may taste some success.

Too many "Gin and Tonic" swilling pheasant hunters around the place in those days. Takes a long time to weed out that culture. Not enough of the"roll the sleeves up and get the hands dirty" types which is why we haven't won a flag since 1964. Hopefully more culture change for us coming up soon and then we may taste some success.

I take offence to this.

Gin and tonics are fantastic drinks.

I take offence to this.

Gin and tonics are fantastic drinks.

Yes and they don't stain the suede elbow patches of your tweed jacket either!