Couldn't disagree more. Hawthorns success came from Dicker, Kennett, Robson, Fox, Clarkson, Evans and the rest of his FD team. If you think that a couple of recruiting failures account for the difference in our success over the decade I'd suggest you're sadly mistaken. The optimism for this year rests with Peter Jackson and Paul Roos. Imagine the mood if Schwab and Neeld were seeing out their contract. I'd suggest the club would die.

I know many would agree with you but many would be wrong.

Ok, not sure where to go with that to be honest.

Who'd have thought good footballers were unnecesary to premierships and that a good administration is all you need.

Moving right along....

Ok, not sure where to go with that to be honest.

Who'd have thought good footballers were unnecesary to premierships and that a good administration is all you need.

Moving right along....

If you've got good administration the good football will follow. If you've got poor administration you're pretty much stuffed.

Hawthorns success came despite Kennett

EFA

If you've got good administration the good football will follow. If you've got poor administration you're pretty much stuffed.

Mate same if you have a crap list.. sheesh!

Edited October 31, 201311 yr by jabberwocky

Ok, not sure where to go with that to be honest.

Who'd have thought good footballers were unnecesary to premierships and that a good administration is all you need.

Moving right along....

We needed to nail certain drafts if we were to have any chance at flag success and we failed dismally. The best coach in the world is no good with a crap list.

That said, the 4 pillars will determine how strong any AFL club is, namely, President, CEO, Head Recruiter and Coach. And these days you could throw in the head of football to make it 5. Ron Barassi said over 30 years ago that you need a successful administration to be a successful club. Who'd disagree?

So Baghdad is right to a large degree. If you draft well, but everything else is shot to pieces you won't become strong on the playing field. But you're also right. It's folly to disregard Baghdad's terrible recruiting pals. You know, "if we win a flag Bazz's fingerprints will be all over it". "Thanks Bazz". Now he's disregarding bad draft choices. Falls down in a stiff breeze our Baggy B.

Well guys, I just hope that we are not having a 6 page arse kick in 2016 of one of our 2013 selections.

Say a prayer for that Lord!

We needed to nail certain drafts if we were to have any chance at flag success and we failed dismally. The best coach in the world is no good with a crap list.

That said, the 4 pillars will determine how strong any AFL club is, namely, President, CEO, Head Recruiter and Coach. And these days you could throw in the head of football to make it 5. Ron Barassi said over 30 years ago that you need a successful administration to be a successful club. Who'd disagree?

So Baghdad is right to a large degree. If you draft well, but everything else is shot to pieces you won't become strong on the playing field. But you're also right. It's folly to disregard Baghdad's terrible recruiting pals. You know, "if we win a flag Bazz's fingerprints will be all over it". "Thanks Bazz". Now he's disregarding bad draft choices. Falls down in a stiff breeze our Baggy B.

The point surely is that you not only need good administration to succeed but it has also to be good over more than just the short term. You can point to the failings of Schwab/Neeld over the past couple of years but they were underpinned by poor decisions made throughout the organisation before they came along. The mistakes made at the club over the past decade by various parties have led us to where we are and we should acknowledge this and move on.

The fixture's out for 2014. We need to focus on what's necessary to beat St. Kilda in Round 1.

Oh, I forgot to say ... after that we take things one week at a time.

I don't really need to point out the successes because it seems that everyone assumes picks in the top 10 will be "stars". It's just not like that and that's the point. Rioli was outside the top 10 and Hodge was before 2003. That leaves Roughhead and Franklin as success. 2 out of 5 in that period.

And Jordan Lewis at 7.

The point surely is that you not only need good administration to succeed but it has also to be good over more than just the short term. You can point to the failings of Schwab/Neeld over the past couple of years but they were underpinned by poor decisions made throughout the organisation before they came along. The mistakes made at the club over the past decade by various parties have led us to where we are and we should acknowledge this and move on.

The fixture's out for 2014. We need to focus on what's necessary to beat St. Kilda in Round 1.

Yes. Sustained competence is vital.

Melbourne will continue to fail at list management and drafting until the club poaches a head recruiter from a team who has demonstrated these qualities. Clubs such as Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood. Until the club can do this, the list will increasingly fill of the Gysberts, Morton, Steven Armstrong, Daniel Bell, Nicholas Smith, Sylvia, McLean, Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, Maric, Watts (may prove to be ok; still unknown), Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove (refer watts), Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook.

2009 draft: Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott. Yes ok he landed Gawn, Fitzpatrick however the class was earlier in the draft. 4 picks in top 18 and I suspect we blew every one of them.

I know it serves little purpose discussing our drafting however I feel so resentful of the MFC management from 2000 (and perhaps before that I wasnt aware of) to 2012.

We took the universally rated best 2 available with picks 1 and 2. We manage to get out of the Scully issue well with Hogan. Jury still out on Trengove. Gysberts and Tapscott are fails to me. Jury still out on Gawn and Fitzy given their talls. If they make reasonable careers over the 2-3 years then they are wins.

Edited October 31, 201311 yr by Rhino Richards

We took the universally rated best 2 available with picks 1 and 2. We manage to get out of the Scully issue well with Hogan. Jury still out on Trengove. Gysberts and Tapscott are fails to me. Jury still out on Gawn and Fitzy given their they're talls. If they make reasonable careers over the 2-3 years then they are wins.

Gawn was pick #36 and Fittzy was #50, hardly low draft picks like Morton.

Edited October 31, 201311 yr by CBDees

Some guys leave their best form in the gym. Some leave it on the track.maybe Cale spent too much time in the sauna.

Melbourne will continue to fail at list management and drafting until the club poaches a head recruiter from a team who has demonstrated these qualities. Clubs such as Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood. Until the club can do this, the list will increasingly fill of the Gysberts, Morton, Steven Armstrong, Daniel Bell, Nicholas Smith, Sylvia, McLean, Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, Maric, Watts (may prove to be ok; still unknown), Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove (refer watts), Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook.

2009 draft: Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott. Yes ok he landed Gawn, Fitzpatrick however the class was earlier in the draft. 4 picks in top 18 and I suspect we blew every one of them.

I know it serves little purpose discussing our drafting however I feel so resentful of the MFC management from 2000 (and perhaps before that I wasnt aware of) to 2012.

I am not sure about your idea here of the super recruiter. I have always found it interesting that the first 25 players in each draft are predicted every year by Emma Quayle and others and with a few exceptions it pans out as expected. As we know MFC has not done that well in the first round selections. However BP did break with expectations with Cook and Gysberts. The rest of the early selections we followed what was predicted and got what we got.

Rather than the super recruiter concept we may have, in Roos, someone who's recruitment strategy gives us an edge. The ability to pick player types to fill a role, in the knowledge that for the past whatever years those guys have been playing a role at AFL level. I think Roos strategy is to seek out players who have made that initial transition from 18 year old to AFL player, that is the biggest step that sorts out many gifted kids. I also remember listening to Roos a few years ago extolling the virtues of a number of his rookie upgrades and recycled players at the Swans. He contrasted their hunger for success and humble work ethic versus that of the first round 18 year old selection who has elite expectations of what your club will do for them.

Recruiters and their recruitment network can come into thir own in the later rounds if they have really good intelligence on the roughies. I suspect that MFC has a reasonable record for picking players from the 30's to 60's over the years. We have done well with late picks, getting some serviceable players but we have failed for decades to uncover one or two elites. That has cruelled us. In the 90's we could pick and develop talent at will, now we seem to search in vain. Maybe in time we will find we have some.

Gawn was pick #36 and Fittzy was #50, hardly low draft picks like Morton.

Morton was pick 4 in 2007. I was talking about 2009.

Gawn and Fitzy were picked late in 2009 and my comments about their careers if they eventuate will make them wins.

I am not sure about your idea here of the super recruiter. I have always found it interesting that the first 25 players in each draft are predicted every year by Emma Quayle and others and with a few exceptions it pans out as expected. As we know MFC has not done that well in the first round selections. However BP did break with expectations with Cook and Gysberts. The rest of the early selections we followed what was predicted and got what we got.

Rather than the super recruiter concept we may have, in Roos, someone who's recruitment strategy gives us an edge.

I dont think that has been the case in each year. After the first 8 to 12 picks which are usually close to the mark, the skill comes into identifying the talent from the chaff and making the bid on the best available. Its those picks from 10-20 which have really mark the recruiter as a gun, In recent years..... Dunn, Bate, Gysberts, Cook, Blease, Tapscott, Strauss and Maric have all been fails. We chose badly pure and simple. For each of those players there was a better alternative that we could have taken but sadly didnt.

Melbourne will continue to fail at list management and drafting until the club poaches a head recruiter from a team who has demonstrated these qualities. Clubs such as Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood.

Do you mean the head recruiter from one of these clubs or a recruiter from one of these clubs to head our recruiting?

I think our new head recruiter Jason Taylor comes from Collingwood and Todd Viney who had a role last year (and I thought did well) was involved at Hawthorn but not sure if he had much to do with recruiting. Let's see what rabbits Taylor can pull out of his hat (if any) with 9, 40 & 57 plus those rookie picks. And then there's next year.

Poaching a head recruiter is simplistic.

Poaching a head recruiter is simplistic.

Maybe we should recruit a head poacher instead?

Some guys leave their best form in the gym. Some leave it on the track.maybe Cale spent too much time in the sauna.

Cale at training:

Just had a look back at Emma Quayle's mock draft from 2007. Many here consider her the guru and she has Morton going at no 4 but added he was on Richmond's radar at no 2 and we would be happy if he got through to us.

Couldn't disagree more. Hawthorns success came from Dicker, Kennett, Robson, Fox, Clarkson, Evans and the rest of his FD team. If you think that a couple of recruiting failures account for the difference in our success over the decade I'd suggest you're sadly mistaken. The optimism for this year rests with Peter Jackson and Paul Roos. Imagine the mood if Schwab and Neeld were seeing out their contract. I'd suggest the club would die.

I know many would agree with you but many would be wrong.

Spot on!

We had the the wrong people make wrong decisions at the draft, but when your culture & development are crap I would say many other early picks in other clubs would have struggled at MFC. I think also that when drafting a kid you also need to look beyond talent like passion,hunger,work ethic.

Melbourne will continue to fail at list management and drafting until the club poaches a head recruiter from a team who has demonstrated these qualities. Clubs such as Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood. Until the club can do this, the list will increasingly fill of the Gysberts, Morton, Steven Armstrong, Daniel Bell, Nicholas Smith, Sylvia, McLean, Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, Maric, Watts (may prove to be ok; still unknown), Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove (refer watts), Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook.

2009 draft: Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott. Yes ok he landed Gawn, Fitzpatrick however the class was earlier in the draft. 4 picks in top 18 and I suspect we blew every one of them.

I know it serves little purpose discussing our drafting however I feel so resentful of the MFC management from 2000 (and perhaps before that I wasnt aware of) to 2012.

havent been keeping up with recent events I take it

Couldn't disagree more. Hawthorns success came from Dicker, Kennett, Robson, Fox, Clarkson, Evans and the rest of his FD team. If you think that a couple of recruiting failures account for the difference in our success over the decade I'd suggest you're sadly mistaken. The optimism for this year rests with Peter Jackson and Paul Roos. Imagine the mood if Schwab and Neeld were seeing out their contract. I'd suggest the club would die.

I know many would agree with you but many would be wrong.

Spot on BB. As I have said before, if your club is run by incompetents then how can they demand that those in their charge are competent? They set the example.

We needed to nail certain drafts if we were to have any chance at flag success and we failed dismally. The best coach in the world is no good with a crap list.

That said, the 4 pillars will determine how strong any AFL club is, namely, President, CEO, Head Recruiter and Coach. And these days you could throw in the head of football to make it 5. Ron Barassi said over 30 years ago that you need a successful administration to be a successful club. Who'd disagree?

So Baghdad is right to a large degree. If you draft well, but everything else is shot to pieces you won't become strong on the playing field. But you're also right. It's folly to disregard Baghdad's terrible recruiting pals. You know, "if we win a flag Bazz's fingerprints will be all over it". "Thanks Bazz". Now he's disregarding bad draft choices. Falls down in a stiff breeze our Baggy B.

And in the unwitting irony stakes you again win.

Compares Bob's changes while disregarding own (re: coaches and admin) and then suggests that bob's credibility = questionable.

It is amazing that you front a forum where your schtick is living/dying on your judgement calls and you have consistent and epic failures on this topic (Bailey, Neeld, Jimmy, the Board, schwab and various players), yet blithely hoe into others on issues of judgement.

And let's be really clear: your calls have been wrong about the issues that have led to the club being on its knees and near dead. It's not a matter of not guessing about player development.

Off all the big calls about the club in the last 5 years, you have been wrong on all of them.

All.

Every time.

Without fail.

Bob has been right on all. Without fail.

Perhaps a sense of shame will see you say less about others for while.