its nice to play hardball for a change

we are evolving

Agree, the proposed trade didn't sit well with me. Pick 2 is a shot at a Cotchin type midfield star, Bugg and Buntine are role players. Pick 9 is hit and miss.

its nice to play hardball for a change

we are evolving

I wouldn't say we're playing hardball, BB. We're just not being ridiculously stupid. It was a rubbish proposed trade in hope from GWS and we would have been stupid to take it. I know it's a word people don't like on this site, but "elite" or "capable of elite" is what we're after with this pick. Otherwise, we go to the draft.

Who's to say you won't get your star at 9? In perfect theory pick 2 should be better than pick 9, but I'd be interested to take a really good look back and see where in the draft stars are found. My hypothesis is that you're just as likely to get your star anywhere in the top 10 as you are at #2; I don't see it as a huge gamble if we get two solid players out of it.

2,000 pick 2 Kosi - pick 9 Pettifer : neither much good, but Kosi just - win to pick 2

2,001 pick 2 Luke Ball - pick 9 Luke Molan : Ball - win to pick 2

2,002 pick 2 Wells - pick 9 McIntosh : Wells - win to pick 2

2,003 pick 2 Walker - pick 9 Trotter : Walker - win to pick 2

2,004 pick 2 Roughead - pick 9 Russell : Roughead - win to pick 2

2,005 pick 2 Thomas - pick 9 Clark : Thomas - win to pick 2 - although Clark hasn't had a decent run at it

2,006 pick 2 Gumbleton - pick 9 Armitage :Armitage - win to pick 9

2,007 pick 2 Cotchin - pick 9 McEvoy : Cotchin - win to pick 2

2,008 pick 2 Naitanui - pick 9 Ziebell : Naitanui - win to pick 2

2,009 pick 2 Trengove - pick 9 Moore : Trengove - win to pick 2

Not a lot of superstars in either camp, but I know which maths I prefer.

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by Ben-Hur

I was gonna say. Col Sylvia was not pick #2.

SO GWS were offering Bugg + Buntine + pick 9 for our Pick 2.

MFC should go back and say Shiel + Pick 9 for pick 2. Of course that will be rejected.

We then go back and say Shiel for Pick 2, it makes it look like we are being the more reasonable by bringing in our demands. 2 players plus pick 9, into 1 player plus pick 9, into 1 player. Hopefully that dimwit SOS will at least see it that way, lol!

If Frawley is not going to make a decision on his future with the MFC what about a trade involving this. Pick 2 + Frawley for Shiel + Treloar + Pick 9?

Or GWS 2nd Round pick if 9 is overkill for them...which it perhaps is. Allows Myers to be recruited as a defender

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by richyrich

People seem to be under the impression that Shiel actually wants to play for us. Has he said that yet? He is under contract and can tell us to get stuffed. Long, long, long way from getting our hands on the bloke, no matter how much we want him in the red and blue.

Right. Well, I don't think Woewodin was anywhere near being a star. He had one top season, IMO. He may have had good seasons around that, but I guess I'm not as happy to anoint players "stars". I loved Neita, but even his "star" status is tenuous, and he was twice the player Woewodin was.

I was talking about Barry Hall. It was you that brought Woewodin into it!

Anyway, I won't derail the thread any further,

I am honestly all for this trade. Some of the key points I think need to be said or re-said are;

Buntine was a midfielder as a junior. He couldn't get a game in GWS's midfield so he was played a defender, all be it a running one.

The word is "albeit." And I'm sorry, but Buntine was mostly a HBF in juniors. He played in he middle on request in stints, but was not a fulltime mid. Good footballer but not the athletic type.

Bugg, again is a bit like Zack Jones, started off a back flank and will eventually end up as a midfielder, at Melbourne. I used Zack Jones as an example as we are calling for him to be grabbed around the pick 21 mark, which is fair enough.

Bugg would be a midfielder in the great Melbourne tradition of flankers pushed into the midfield out of necessity.

Can play anywhere, but not the pure mid we need.

Thirdly, I recall Demonlanders calling for us to take Freeman at pick 2, which again is a good call... he has what we lack; speed,contested ability etc.. he isnt an accumulator, but damaging with what he gets.

For pick 2, you'd want him to be an accumulator too.

My point is, if we wanted to take Freeman at 2, why not take him at 9 and grab Bugg and Buntine aswell?

If Freeman is worth taking at 2, the draft isn't that even for him to still be there at 9.

Realistically, we are getting 3 for 1.. replacing guys like, couch, nicholson, bail making them further depth players rather than borderline 22 is how we are going to turn this club around. I just think we should put this in a little more perspective.

I haven't really read any genuine reasons why we shouldn't take this deal.

My perspective is that Bugg and Buntine will be fringe 22, really no different to us bringing Tapscott and Blease if they played for another club.

They have good attributes that saw them get drafted relatively highly, but as it stands there is now very little that will make them stand out from the pack. They have strengths, but they have weaknesses.

I was gonna say. Col Sylvia was not pick #2.

Clearly you didn't need to, but still did.

*Likes sound of own voice*

If Frawley is not going to make a decision on his future with the MFC what about a trade involving this. Pick 2 + Frawley for Shiel + Treloar + Pick 9?

Or GWS 2nd Round pick if 9 is overkill for them...which it perhaps is. Allows Myers to be recruited as a defender

Frawley is worth a hell of a lot more than this.

Isn't it nice that GWS want something that we have so bad, that they are going to have to walk over hot coals to get it.

Once this happens, I'll forgive them for seducing Scully away from us, and setting us back years

Let's hope there is someone in the recruiting department that hasn't forgotten.

Bugg, Buntine & pick 12 doesn't cut it....back to the drawing board boys.

Isn't it nice that GWS want something that we have so bad, that they are going to have to walk over hot coals to get it.

Once this happens, I'll forgive them for seducing Scully away from us, and setting us back years

Scully? I forgave them immediately when I saw Jesse Hogan's first mark and kick against the Kangaroos, February 2013.

Scully? I forgave them immediately when I saw Jesse Hogan's first mark and kick against the Kangaroos, February 2013.

Hogan get's them half redemption

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by Roosy's Bruisers

According to SEN, the word out of today is the Dees have rejected GWS's offer of Bugg and Buntine and pick 9. This is a good thing IMO. Time for the Dees to counter offer with our choice of player and picks.

Would be happy with One of Buntine or Shiel

Bugg maybe not.

Buntine will be a jet and shiel is already a jet

Would be happy with One of Buntine or Shiel

Bugg maybe not.

Buntine will be a jet and shiel is already a jet

So you'd be happy with the trade of Buntine and Bugg and pick 9 for pick 2 then. Because you get your man Buntine.

Whatever peoples thoughts on Bugg are when you still haven't delisted Magner, Nicholson or Jetta he's worth taking!

It all gets a bit hazy with the talk of ball winning ability. The fact that our players are low on numbers is not solely because they can't 'win their own ball.' I don't want to go there though. But let's just be aware of the fact that if we injected any big name mid into our side right now, their performance/numbers/ball winning capabilities would be no where near what they would have previously been.

Having said that, I do agree that there could be better offers for our pick 2. I'm simply arguing that the reported offer of Buntine, Bugg and pick number 9 (which from what I understand in this draft will be a very handy player), is a pretty good fall back deal.

If we do land Vince and Cross, (which I expect we will), that gives us two quality experienced 'ball winners' plus Nathan Jones who is turning into a genuinely quality AFL midfielder. Natural improvement from Viney and a rejuvenated and fit Trengove gives decent support.

Then we have the following to develop:

Michie

Watts (if he plays midfield)

Toumpas

Pick 9

Howe

Taggert

Bugg

Buntine

Tapscott

Barry

Matt Jones

and Grimes if he's not moved back

That's a pretty good 'worst case' trade if you ask me, and we'll also have the opportunity to land a big fish next year as a FA.

But I, like you would still prefer to land a big namer for pick 2.

I'd be very happy with a good player & P6, P7, P8, P9, to get us into the top 10 of the NDraft in Xchange for our Pick2. just as long as we stay above the pies as they be after the same players we want.

I think they'll want Crouch & Freeman. and they're working hard to get above us, as they know we all want the same types. They'll be looking to replace DSwan, & another running mid.

I don't think Boyd is as high a target as their midfield/runningbacks.

IMO pick 2 is very valuable

I think we have already gained when we have Viv Michie for the loss of pick 54

With Bernie Vince being likely to be added for maybe pick 20 to the Crows this gives us a major midfield boost

Jarryd Lyons maybe a worthwhile get for pick 36 ? or maybe the pick we get for Sylvia (it might need to be given to the Crows to seal the Vince deal)

I am not sure how strong our interest is with both Bugg and Buntine and doubt there is another Giant to sweeten the deal so maybe there is another solution

I doubt Dylan Sheil wants to play for us so no point wasting our time on him

If we said no to Bugg, Buntine and pick 9 for our draft pick 2 we just might say yes if the Giants added pick 19

Not really sure what the Giants are up to but i can see them doing something with both pick 1 and 2 for some real bargaining power

The Giants might have already set up a deal for pick 1 behind closed doors so getting a deal done for pick 2 from us allows them to pick up someone like Scharenberg for example

Although puzzling Its my only conclusion to why they would also be involved in dealing with us for pick 2 already having pick 1

At the end of the day we would therefore have pick 9 and 19 giving us the chance to add 2 Midfielders such as Freeman, Dumont or Sheed

With a fair chance of gaining the delisted Cross our new midfiled coach has something to work with

Not sure i like giving up pick 2 for a non A grade midfielder and something else though

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by Swampfox

IMO pick 2 is very valuable

I think we have already gained when we have Viv Michie for the loss of pick 54

With Bernie Vince being likely to be added for maybe pick 20 to the Crows this gives us a major midfield boost

Jarryd Lyons maybe a worthwhile get for pick 36 ? or maybe the pick we get for Sylvia (it might need to be given to the Crows to seal the Vince deal)

I am not sure how strong our interest is with both Bugg and Buntine and doubt there is another Giant to sweeten the deal so maybe there is another solution

I doubt Dylan Sheil wants to play for us so no point wasting our time on him

If we said no to Bugg, Buntine and pick 9 for our draft pick 2 we just might say yes if the Giants added pick 19

Not really sure what the Giants are up to but i can see them doing something with both pick 1 and 2 for some real bargaining power

The Giants might have already set up a deal for pick 1 behind closed doors so getting a deal done for pick 2 from us allows them to pick up someone like Scharenberg for example

Although puzzling Its my only conclusion to why they would also be involved in dealing with us for pick 2 already having pick 1

At the end of the day we would therefore have pick 9 and 19 giving us the chance to add 2 Midfielders such as Freeman, Dumont or Sheed

With a fair chance of gaining the delisted Cross our new midfiled coach has something to work with

Not sure i like giving up pick 2 for a non A grade midfielder and something else though

are you suggesting

pick 2 for p9 + p19 + bugg + buntine ?

As far as value goes it is probably loaded, but again, only if we think we can get a gun at 9 and a good player at 19 with s couple of freebies thrown in.

I like your theory re GWS wanted to being in pick 2 so that they can trade or pick 1. That has GWS written all over it. Of we knock back their best deal for p2, I wonder if the club who wants p1 may get involved with us?

Edited October 17, 201311 yr by deanox

Pick 19 completes the deal. Would Esdendon then take our 2nd rounder for Myers? Sylvia compo for vince and pick 19 for ourselves.

The word is "albeit."

I'm sorry, my bad.

Bugg would be a midfielder in the great Melbourne tradition of flankers pushed into the midfield out of necessity.

Can play anywhere, but not the pure mid we need.lanker

I haven't seen any footage that shows me Bugg is 'just a flanker'. Check his game vs WBD when he played mid, 28 possies. That's what Im going by, that's a game i saw and was rather impressed.

For pick 2, you'd want him to be an accumulator too.

Accumulator, yes.. but damaging too. would rather 20 damaging possies, than 30 regular touches... Not saying Bugg is an excellent user of the ball, but he is certainly not the worst.

If Freeman is worth taking at 2, the draft isn't that even for him to still be there at 9.

We are very keen on him (by reports on here) don't hold me to that.. But to us he is above Aish,kelly,scharenberg,billings,sheed... pick 7 and than Mcdonald (f/s) at 8.. So pick 7, Brisbane. I don't see them taking Freeman. I feel they'd be more inclined for;Kolodjashnij,Taylor or Lennon. That leaves us with a choice even; Freeman,Crouch,Salem,Bontempelli and 2 out of the 3 previously listed.

My perspective is that Bugg and Buntine will be fringe 22, really no different to us bringing Tapscott and Blease if they played for another club.

They have good attributes that saw them get drafted relatively highly, but as it stands there is now very little that will make them stand out from the pack. They have strengths, but they have weaknesses.

I understand what you're saying, but, Bugg and Buntine are completely different players to Tapscott and Blease. They find more of the ball for starters. Buntin was pick 5, 2 years ago.. so obviously he was highly rated.

Obviously this is not the best trade we could get, but if this happened, who could be mad with Buntine,Bugg and Freeman?

FWIW- we declined the trade

Gws trying for collingwoods pick 10 for Adams. Pick 9 and 10 for 2 I would do.

Gws trying for collingwoods pick 10 for Adams. Pick 9 and 10 for 2 I would do.

With you on that.

You'd swap your own mother for a pair of 3rd round draft picks.

Then you'd wonder who was going to do your laundry... but still think you got a bargain.