I must be watching a different game of Toumps, because I reckon he's been alright in the first couple of games. He is one of very few who actually leads hard and doesn't give up after 5 steps. He doubles back and tries again unlike 90% of the team.

This debate of Wines vs Toumpas is old and pointless, it also colours everyones expectations of him. The club didn't expect him to star in his first year, and so far he has shown good signs for the future IMO. He is the least of my worries.

you're right about his ability to find and use space. he can also be a nice kick if given space

but he is as slow as molasses and is hopeless in contested footy or man on man

he has a long way to go

you're right about his ability to find and use space. he can also be a nice kick if given space

but he is as slow as molasses and is hopeless in contested footy or man on man

he has a long way to go

He does have a long way to go, but so do most second year players, he is getting the speed at AFL, we have seen he has some weapons, his skills, decision making and hard running, his contested ball i think will naturally come along

He does have a long way to go, but so do most second year players, he is getting the speed at AFL, we have seen he has some weapons, his skills, decision making and hard running, his contested ball i think will naturally come along

we can only hope so

His chase on Cripps yesterday highlighted how much of a liability his lack of pace is.

You don't think it was a combination of him being spent from chasing tail, and the fact Cripps has a couple more seasons' development in his body, making it capable of more powerful running..?

He's got a mate wearing number 9 whose pace concerns me a whole lot more.

many suggest a distinct improvement in speed is a given

Im not sure why...he cant run for .....

take the game down a peg he's a gem...point the dial to AFL and hes wanting.

Hope he finds some magic speed some where...otherwise just another nqr on the list

many suggest a distinct improvement in speed is a given

Im not sure why...he cant run for .....

take the game down a peg he's a gem...point the dial to AFL and hes wanting.

Hope he finds some magic speed some where...otherwise just another nqr on the list

Plenty of good slow players out there, i'm very confident his skills and game sense will be all he needs to be a dangerous player for us

Jimmy Toumpas played well yesterday. He's getting the pace of the game with each outing, is creative, clever with his disposals, and has a great tank for a kid his age. The negative absolutism on here in savaging someone who has played a handful of games for a rubbish team is just pathetic. As our youngest 2 players (excl JKH) out there, he and Dom Tyson showed a lot yesterday. Many of the comments on here are simply embarrassing.

Agree, sitting with an old MFC player yesterday, we were quite pleased with his progress since last season.

The kid's going to be OK.

As for Tyson I hope we handle him well, he'll be a gem.

He's got a mate wearing number 9 whose pace concerns me a whole lot more.

That is a real worry.

Plenty of good slow players out there, i'm very confident his skills and game sense will be all he needs to be a dangerous player for us

many a mention is made of some greats of the game not being zippadeedoodah out of the gates. Problem is the game has evolved and speed isnt a negotiable or icing..its very much a basic requirement in the cake.

Again I hope he finds some more of it...he negates his skills and finesse by plodding

bit rough on toumpas. he's still young. plenty of time to develop pace and gain game confidence. pace is something that can be improved. As a sprinter, i know that with their training load, their pace will pick up. i would rather a slower player with skill e.g. toumpas than a fast player without much skill e.g. bail, nicho. Toumpas will be alright.
For the record wines is playing a different role to what jimmy was drafted for. Not saying wines won't be a star, but early developers aren't always great players in the long term. Ive been watching Tappy for a while now and haven't seen much progress on his first season - he to was a well built first year with a relatively good first season. speaking of happy, would like him to step up and play some decent footy. hay he could be used in the fwd line this week if he has looked good in the seconds.

not EVERYONE can develop pace... its a falsehood

100% agree, his hips were shot to bits, he looked ordinary in the under 18's prior to drafting him - and MFC bought into the hype.

MFC should believe what they see in the champs. Believe Martin was head and shoulders above the others, believe Wines was a beast, your eyes do not lie.

Instead, MFC goes on hype, our picks are dictated by other clubs - just on what they say.

If we ever had a recruiter who called it as he seen it, we'd of had Martin, Wines, Darling, Sloane and a raft of others.

Instead we pick players on hype on what they COULD do - not what they are doing, it is right in front of you.. Wines is carving it up in the champs, don't overlook the kid for a 'could be champion'.

Thats the part I absolutely agree with KDA MFC dont trust what they see and would rather use some BS KPI's or measurements You can either play footy at this level or you cannot and BTW our history of developing players leaves a lot to be desired

His chase on Cripps yesterday highlighted how much of a liability his lack of pace is.

Cripps isn't exactly blistering either.

Toumpas is playing as I expected he would prior to drafting him.

He isn't suited to a bottom side anyway, he does not have the mentality for it.

Viney and Wines have that mentality, it was evident before drafting them.. Both said they'll make us pay.

When it comes to MFC drafting, we want 2 things... We want guys who believe in themselves no matter what - an absolute steely resolve in guys like Viney, Sloane, Wines.

Then.. We want aggressive mongrels who will die to get the football.

It isn't rocket science.. I've known this since 2008 and I've watched Melbourne football club draft the complete opposite to these types of players.

We draft players with weak mindsets who have to be nurtured and propped up - most of which are project players and skirt riders.

MFC is in dire shape right now and overlooking the likes of Sloane, Parker, Wines, Rockliff and Martin goes a long way to explaining this.

When the chips are down MFC, don't look for X factor types to save you, draft guys who will die to get the football - guys who have inner confidence that is unshaken.

Recruitment 101 and the reason why I given up on our recruitment after we taken James Strauss..

bit rough on toumpas. he's still young. plenty of time to develop pace and gain game confidence. pace is something that can be improved. As a sprinter, i know that with their training load, their pace will pick up. i would rather a slower player with skill e.g. toumpas than a fast player without much skill e.g. bail, nicho. Toumpas will be alright.

For the record wines is playing a different role to what jimmy was drafted for. Not saying wines won't be a star, but early developers aren't always great players in the long term. Ive been watching Tappy for a while now and haven't seen much progress on his first season - he to was a well built first year with a relatively good first season. speaking of happy, would like him to step up and play some decent footy. hay he could be used in the fwd line this week if he has looked good in the seconds.

Still waiting for Trenners to develop some pace

Still waiting for Trenners to develop some pace

lol yeh he is pretty slow. He might not get much quicker, i guess it depends on whether the coaches think he needs to pick it up, or maybe he has gotten as quick as he can. who knows.

lol yeh he is pretty slow. He might not get much quicker, i guess it depends on whether the coaches think he needs to pick it up, or maybe he has gotten as quick as he can. who knows.

he won't get faster.

Let's write off a just turned 20 year old midfielder in his second season.
Makes sense.

He is far from our worse and is developing just fine. So many irrational idiots on this forum sometimes.

EDIT:
For the idiots. Here is his career averages from last season and so far this season. Look at them and have a look at his progress already.

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals

Melbourne 2 11.0 6.5 17.5 6.5 1.0

Melbourne 14 6.6 5.4 12.0 3.1 0.0

he won't get faster.

He was alot quicker than this early on, i'd say the hip surgery has made him lose some of that, maybe needs a running coach

I'm still bewildered and absolutely staggered that he ran a sub 3 second 20m sprint at the 2009 draft camp. Surely the stop watch malfunctioned on his run.

Trengove is of a huge concern to me. He had a great debut year in 2010, and followed up with an even better 2011, to the point where we were happy that it was T$ leaving and not Trenners. Ever since Mark Neeld got a hold of him, he has been in reverse.

He was alot quicker than this early on, i'd say the hip surgery has made him lose some of that, maybe needs a running coach

i was talking about Trengove in the above.

Recruiting an outside mid who needed hip surgery is just absurd. I actually feel sorry for Jimmy.

It is not all his fault.

You don't think it was a combination of him being spent from chasing tail, and the fact Cripps has a couple more seasons' development in his body, making it capable of more powerful running..?

No, he's just slow.

I think the Toump has come on in leaps and bounds this year. He runs hard to present and will only improve when we get Dawes and Hogan back.

No, he's just slow.

quack quack and quack

he may well get quicker, I may grow hair

anything is possible in an infinite roll of dice

but currently hes just slow

i was talking about Trengove in the above.

Recruiting an outside mid who needed hip surgery is just absurd. I actually feel sorry for Jimmy.

It is not all his fault.

Not really considering he was clearly the second best prospect in the draft for the entire season, captain of his state, had been playing and playing well in senior footy premierships the two years prior to being drafted and contrasted perfectly with Jack Viney in terms of us getting a quality inside and outside player

the only absurd thing in all of this is the insane expectations of some of our supporters, i'm sure Jimmy would look alot better in Ports side, and Wines wouldn't look nearly as good in our side, either way we'd think we had made the wrong call, it's the nature of a club in our position.