if Hird helped construct this letter it could bring down the whole club.

Head coach writes letter on behalf of club doctor in relation to drug supplements then denies it exists???

Fcuk me. Jail time looms for some of these suits.

What for?

What for?

James Hird shadow writing a letter from Doc Reid to himself concerning medical records and practises.

Fraud comes to mind straight away...

Im just amazed that all and sundry are sticking fat to Essendon. I know if my son were one hed be out of there quick smart.

I big issue for me that I havent seen rasied here or brought up through any external source is the role of the AFLPA in this disaster.

I recon they should be a critical support to the players but from what I have read they appear to have been caught up in the Essendon twaddle, I assume with the agreement of the players.

My view is they should remain well and truely at arms length from anyone other than the players. I was very concerned to see that the AFLPA and Essendon lawyers appeared to be one and the same. From memory the lead QC for the players legal team was previously used by the Bombers. There is a significant conflict of interest between the Bombers and the players and the AFLPA should not be working with an Essendon funded legal team, they should be providing independant advice. Essendon payng the players legal costs comes at cost, the lawyers will do the bidding of the bloke writng the cheques not the susposed client.

I have concerns that the players remain loyal to a club that I think has questionable morals and have clearly set themselves and the players on a collision course with the rest of the world. The AFLPA regardless of the wishes of the players should ensure that each player has access to independant high quality confidential legal advice that they can access if they as individuals decide they would like to. This pack mentality is a real concern for these young men.

The AFLPA are one of the 3 I think have gotten off lightly so far. Where were the AFLPA, everyone’s favourite old uncle Doc Reid and lastly the player agents who all purport to have the players bests interests at heart and yet all failed the players miserably.

I am amazed that this thread is still going strong at 252 pages about another AFL club on a subject that has not changed in two weeks!

The AFLPA are one of the 3 I think have gotten off lightly so far. Where were the AFLPA, everyone’s favourite old uncle Doc Reid and lastly the player agents who all purport to have the players bests interests at heart and yet all failed the players miserably.

Couldn't agree with you more. The player agents are in hiding on this, they're happy to take their percentage but what about looking after the players. You can't tell me they didn't know what was going on at Essendon yet they never raised an objection. The players association is in the same boat. As for Reid, he was in it up to his eye balls unfortunately for the players.

The AFLPA are one of the 3 I think have gotten off lightly so far. Where were the AFLPA, everyone’s favourite old uncle Doc Reid and lastly the player agents who all purport to have the players bests interests at heart and yet all failed the players miserably.

I agree Doc Reid is culpable and should be gone, but I dnt think the player agents and the AFLPA can be held to account for what happened before they became aware of the supplements program. I dont think the players discussed it outside the club.

My problem is the stance taken after the event. Not sure what the player agents have contributed but they all have this ex player attitude of club loyalty and sticking with your mates. The problem is no one supposedly working for the players is sayng hang on to Little, we have a conflict here and we will determine what is in the best interestes on the players without you looking over our shoulders and working the puppet strings. The AFL must be concerned but quite rightly have remained at arms length as they have a conflict of interest as well.

These kids are under enormous peer pressure to not break ranks with the club. I hope they are getting one on one time with the legal advisors, with their families in attendance if desired. Even if this occurs they would be very concerned in discussing much with a legal team with direct links back to Little. This is where the AFLPA should come in to ensure that the players have independant advice that they can access confitially away from the club and other players. I am not sure they are doing this.

James Hird shadow writing a letter from Doc Reid to himself concerning medical records and practises.

Fraud comes to mind straight away...

I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if Hird had indeed drafted a letter for Dr Reid, the Doctor had still signed it himself. That sort of stuff happens all the time. But if you're saying Hird drafted the letter and then signed it himself forging the Doctor's signature, then that would be serious.

The AFLPA are one of the 3 I think have gotten off lightly so far. Where were the AFLPA, everyone’s favourite old uncle Doc Reid and lastly the player agents who all purport to have the players bests interests at heart and yet all failed the players miserably.

I agree Doc Reid is culpable and should be gone, but I dnt think the player agents and the AFLPA can be held to account for what happened before they became aware of the supplements program. I dont think the players discussed it outside the club.

My problem is the stance taken after the event. Not sure what the player agents have contributed but they all have this ex player attitude of club loyalty and sticking with your mates. The problem is no one supposedly working for the players is sayng hang on to Little, we have a conflict here and we will determine what is in the best interestes on the players without you looking over our shoulders and working the puppet strings. The AFL must be concerned but quite rightly have remained at arms length as they have a conflict of interest as well.

These kids are under enormous peer pressure to not break ranks with the club. I hope they are getting one on one time with the legal advisors, with their families in attendance if desired. Even if this occurs they would be very concerned in discussing much with a legal team with direct links back to Little. This is where the AFLPA should come in to ensure that the players have independant advice that they can access confitially away from the club and other players. I am not sure they are doing this.

Found this in an old Barratt article:

Prominent Melbourne lawyer Tony Hargreaves will be working with David Grace QC and Ben Ihle with AFL Players Association counsel Brett Murphy and Bernie Shinners, completing the players’ defence team.

Hargreaves’ involvement with the players is interesting given he, until recently was working on behalf of the Essendon Football Club in all of its separate dealings with the ASADA investigation.

This stinks in my opinion

I am amazed that this thread is still going strong at 252 pages about another AFL club on a subject that has not changed in two weeks!

Its all Jack Watts' fault

I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if Hird had indeed drafted a letter for Dr Reid, the Doctor had still signed it himself. That sort of stuff happens all the time. But if you're saying Hird drafted the letter and then signed it himself forging the Doctor's signature, then that would be serious.

Nope, I think the point is if Hird co-wrote a letter that he later denied he new off it is proof he has lied to ASADA and AFL investigators. This trows in doubt all his statements and credibility and would be proof of guilt of a breach of the AFL PED policy. There may also be possible breaches of offences under the ASADA Act or the Criminal Code Act.

I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if Hird had indeed drafted a letter for Dr Reid, the Doctor had still signed it himself. That sort of stuff happens all the time. But if you're saying Hird drafted the letter and then signed it himself forging the Doctor's signature, then that would be serious.

i think its serious either way myself.

Is James Hird a head doctor for 40+ players? Why would his drafted letter carry more weight?

Or more likely what sections were omitted?

I agree Doc Reid is culpable and should be gone, but I dnt think the player agents and the AFLPA can be held to account for what happened before they became aware of the supplements program. I dont think the players discussed it outside the club.

My problem is the stance taken after the event. Not sure what the player agents have contributed but they all have this ex player attitude of club loyalty and sticking with your mates. The problem is no one supposedly working for the players is sayng hang on to Little, we have a conflict here and we will determine what is in the best interestes on the players without you looking over our shoulders and working the puppet strings. The AFL must be concerned but quite rightly have remained at arms length as they have a conflict of interest as well.

These kids are under enormous peer pressure to not break ranks with the club. I hope they are getting one on one time with the legal advisors, with their families in attendance if desired. Even if this occurs they would be very concerned in discussing much with a legal team with direct links back to Little. This is where the AFLPA should come in to ensure that the players have independant advice that they can access confitially away from the club and other players. I am not sure they are doing this.

Found this in an old Barratt article:

Prominent Melbourne lawyer Tony Hargreaves will be working with David Grace QC and Ben Ihle with AFL Players Association counsel Brett Murphy and Bernie Shinners, completing the players’ defence team.

Hargreaves’ involvement with the players is interesting given he, until recently was working on behalf of the Essendon Football Club in all of its separate dealings with the ASADA investigation.

This stinks in my opinion

He was working with Essendon and now he is working with the players. In my view the players are being poorly advised if they accept that. they and are risking their livelihoods (and potentially their health) by sticking to that stinking club. Its beyond me.

I agree Doc Reid is culpable and should be gone, but I dnt think the player agents and the AFLPA can be held to account for what happened before they became aware of the supplements program. I dont think the players discussed it outside the club.

I find it impossible to believe that at least one player out of 40+ didn't discuss the program with their manager or the players association.

i think its serious either way myself.

Is James Hird a head doctor for 40+ players? Why would his drafted letter carry more weight?

Or more likely what sections were omitted?

It doesn't matter who drafts the letter. It's who signs it that matters. The person signing it is confirming the contents. It's always incumbent on the signatory to do so. And if he or she doesn't, they wear the consequences.

I find it impossible to believe that at least one player out of 40+ didn't discuss the program with their manager or the players association.

Me too, It will be interestng if it comes out thate one or two did know. I would think a few agent registrations would be looked at by the AFL. There are significant pressures and conflicts right across this industry, the Agents and AFLPA are to a degree in the pockets of the clubs who ulitimately pay there way. If you stand up to Little and Essendon on this it will do you chances of signing Bombers players in the future no good at all.

In all of this the players are the least of anyones problems. They are transient entities, the Agents, Clubs and AFLPA will exist long after they are gone. In a sense they are expendable, you can always get new ones.

I find it impossible to believe that at least one player out of 40+ didn't discuss the program with their manager or the players association.

I agree, someone somewhere has spoken, possibly to the AFLPA and probably to ASADA

The ox is slow and the earth is patient. I see the law as the ox and ASADA are patient. Essendon are just mad hares.

The inevitable will come, we are impatient to see the cheats punished. They will be punished. A long, slow, drawn out punishment.

It doesn't matter who drafts the letter. It's who signs it that matters. The person signing it is confirming the contents. It's always incumbent on the signatory to do so. And if he or she doesn't, they wear the consequences.

correct.

It says a lot for the character of Doc Reid doesn't if if this happens.

How the hell is he still the club doctor???

He was working with Essendon and now he is working with the players. In my view the players are being poorly advised if they accept that. they and are risking their livelihoods (and potentially their health) by sticking to that stinking club. Its beyond me.

The players are being further hoodwinked and the club is being very crafty.

Honestly, if the players ( singularly or all ) cant see this then more fool them.

I have no sympathy for them at all.

He was working with Essendon and now he is working with the players. In my view the players are being poorly advised if they accept that. they and are risking their livelihoods (and potentially their health) by sticking to that stinking club. Its beyond me.

We've seen it before

Look up "Jonestown "

I am amazed that this thread is still going strong at 252 pages about another AFL club on a subject that has not changed in two weeks!

1. What is that line about empty vessels and most noise?

2. As you well know, OD, it might be about another club, but the issue cuts to the heart of why we are all interested in footy in the first place, and if it is not dealt with properly, it will affect us all.

3. Schadenfreude feels so good sometimes ... (should be a song from 'The Producers' )

We've seen it before

Look up "Jonestown "

Jonestown, Essendon synonyms

correct.

It says a lot for the character of Doc Reid doesn't if if this happens.

How the hell is he still the club doctor???

How the hell is he still a Doctor !!!

How the hell is he still a Doctor !!!

well yes but let's start with the club!!

They put him into the Hall of Fame for signing James trumped up letter that james denies exists!!

A true lacky dog is Doc Reid.

Jonestown, Essendon synonyms

Actually if rearrange the letters of Jonestown you get ewsjonton which is eerily close to Essendon. Freakin you out huh ?